Review Semi Final, 2024 - GWS vs. Brisbane Lions

[Section 5]

Payne was below average for 3 quarters of the game.
Appeared to me he could not jump much off the ground to influence the contest.
Not unsurprising considering the number of missed games then the injury upon his return.

I am sure if we lost that game a lot on here would be giving him a hard time instead of finding some excuses.
There would have been talk of we should have gone with a fit Joyce etc etc.
Fagan said he went to Payne at 3/4 time and mentioned he was having an average time of it for 3 quarters.
But there is one quarter to go and that's enough time to make an impact. Something along those lines.
He did respond and had a solid last quarter.

To date Payne has not handled injury as well as others. Needs more time than most to get back his confidence.
Nothing wrong with this it's just some bodies need extra time to recover.

That game is now in the past and Payne should have got enough confidence in his last quarter effort to have a better game v Cats.
One proviso on that is, he has to have pulled up well and train better this week.
I hope he is back to 95% as he will have to play well against the very good big Cats forwards.

 

[dlanod]

If there only wasn't another team of very talented and determined opposition players trying to win the game, the game would be easy.

That's why I like games against NM.

 

[luthor]

If there only wasn't another team of very talented and determined opposition players trying to win the game, the game would be easy.

A very astute observation.

A lot of us (me included) would be well served bearing this in mind instead of losing our minds anytime our team doesn't win by the expected 15 goals or even shock, horror...........loses.

 

[knaf]

If there only wasn't another team of very talented and determined opposition players trying to win the game, the game would be easy.

From my experience, this is a very Essendon (all big Melbourne clubs) supporters approach to following football. Wallow in the easy victory.

Not to say we of the less entitled clubs don’t fall for this trap from time to time.

 

[M Malice]

Love Rhys's passion for the Lions >

 

[luthor]

Love Rhys's passion for the Lions >

LOL!!!

Priceless

 

[Jim Stynes11]

Love Rhys's passion for the Lions >

Love it. Absolute travesty that video doesn't show final whistle reaction though

 

[Brett C]

Ill preface by saying that I didn't watch all of it, but there was a clip on a Lions FB page that someone posted of Mitch and Rhy's podcast recently where Robbo said he won't support the Lions anymore (which now having seen that, makes me question that anyway) as, I'm paraphrasing here, that the club and fans have turned his back on him following not getting into the rooms a couple of weeks back.

Genuinely sad if that is the case by Mitch. I admit that sometime following his leaving the Lions, mid the following year, I unsusbribed from his YT channel as his content / antics just wasn't for me and too loose and the getting pissed at Lions games was way too low rent for me as well - I get it appeals to others but not me.

Robbo will be a future prime example of CTE and the negative effects head knocks can have.

Doesn't help he's a bit of sh*t bloke as well. The non-admission to the rooms thing was a massive blow-up by a tool wanting to get attention now that no one cares about him.

 

[Tom14]

Ill preface by saying that I didn't watch all of it, but there was a clip on a Lions FB page that someone posted of Mitch and Rhy's podcast recently where Robbo said he won't support the Lions anymore (which now having seen that, makes me question that anyway) as, I'm paraphrasing here, that the club and fans have turned his back on him following not getting into the rooms a couple of weeks back.

Genuinely sad if that is the case by Mitch. I admit that sometime following his leaving the Lions, mid the following year, I unsusbribed from his YT channel as his content / antics just wasn't for me and too loose and the getting pissed at Lions games was way too low rent for me as well - I get it appeals to others but not me.

Robbo not following the lions anymore?

 

[Grasshopper17]

BTW dlanod and a one other who I can not recall who recommended Ribs & Rumps thanks heaps, loved it and it was a huge serving, great for Carnivores like myself.

You're welcome

 

[Elixuh]

Robbo not following the lions anymore?

Does he have zero insight into his own behaviour? Seems that way.

 

[Grasshopper17]

This is Jeff White who used to play for Melbourne, used to be a great player.

Yep, has a son (also a ruckman like his father) coming through the ranks in the Suns academy I believe. Does special comments for ABC Radio at the Gabba and Carrara. Always very insightful.

 

[Grasshopper17]

This is Jeff White who used to play for Melbourne, used to be a great player.

He also played for Freo

 

[Grasshopper17]

Love it. Absolute travesty that video doesn't show final whistle reaction though

Probably not fit for the internet

 

[Grasshopper17]

I called us done so many times in that game. But just had that sneaky thought that the giants were running out of petrol. Holy f-ing shit that was one of the best wins I have ever seen.

That last 40 or so minutes was incredible

Funnily enough I actually turned to my friends at the game midway through the third quarter (the ones who had stayed ), it would have just about been at 80-36, and said "you know the worst part about this is I think we're actually trying... Our effort has been pretty good!"

(I say this was a bad thing because by that point you're thinking, "geez where is the upside going to come from here?")

I just thought the biggest difference in the last quarter and a half was we started winning ground level contests (both clearances and post-stoppage) whereas up to that point we had largely been on the receiving end.

Whether that was down to numbers around the ball, "moving magnets" as Fages said (obviously Ashcroft made a huge difference), or a bit of luck, who knows? Probably a combination of all of the above to be honest.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I also find it bemusing and amusing the belief some have that Kingsley "outcoached" Fagan


Since when does scowling ,yelling into the phone and running up and down waiving your arms about when the game is slipping away make you the better coach?

How easily observers are impressed with overt displays of emotion by coaches , rather than Grandpa Fages worried but calmer demeanour when things aren't running the teams' way

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I haven't seen a full replay (yet) but to me it simply looked like a standard finals game. Not much time and space, lots of one on ones, have to win your own ball. Pretty similar in that regard to Friday night's game. That's how the game is going to look when (at least) one team makes the decision that they are gonna man up every single opposition player at all times.

Ultimately that's the reason we were only able to take 72 marks, 60 uncontested, when normally we are up around or over 100. Even the Giants took more (76) and they are not even a kick-mark team.

So the game was played exclusively on the Giants' terms, even when we were getting back into it. Which makes the win all the more meritorious. Who out coached who is largely irrelevant really; I love my strategy schtick, but there's a lot more to good coaching than x's and o's. Being able to maintain composure, belief as well as play for each other is far more important, and I think that was demonstrated by both winning teams on the weekend.

 

[buttermuffs]

Morris was good last week, can't get too annoyed with such a novice getting overawed and lost by the tempo of a final.

He'll be better next week for the experience.

I consider GWS to have the best set of key defenders in the league in Idun, Buckley and Taylor. They are an incredible group and I was not surprised our talls struggled with them except for Daniher in parts. Other than Joe’s final mark only Hippy took another mark inside fifty out of the three.

 

[Grasshopper17]

So much to like tonight but one of the best things was we came up with a fantastic plan B to open up the forward 50 by just having Joe there and then trusted our smalls to get to work.

And this is one of the by-products of identifying when an opposition has decided to go man-on-man all over the ground (see above post). They become susceptible to being pulled around into the positions you want them to be in.

It's a high risk strategy; an open forward line makes it more likely for us to score, but it also makes it more likely for the ball to be run out of our forward line with minimal pressure, usually via the open wing. But when you're 44 points down you're left with no other choice.

For this reason, I still think teams in general can do more to manipulate/pull apart a defensive structure when it has been identified as one on one. To me this should be even easier to slice through than a zone defence. But this level of strategy and off-ball player movement may still be some years off. The Giants being unable to run the clock down to any great extent in the last quarter playing a kick-mark style of game is case-in-point of this.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Funnily enough I actually turned to my friends at the game midway through the third quarter (the ones who had stayed ), it would have just about been at 80-36, and said "you know the worst part about this is I think we're actually trying... Our effort has been pretty good!"

(I say this was a bad thing because by that point you're thinking, "geez where is the upside going to come from here?")

I just thought the biggest difference in the last quarter and a half was we started winning ground level contests (both clearances and post-stoppage) whereas up to that point we had largely been on the receiving end.

Whether that was down to numbers around the ball, "moving magnets" as Fages said (obviously Ashcroft made a huge difference), or a bit of luck, who knows? Probably a combination of all of the above to be honest.

Surely Ashcroft should be in the middle from the get go if he's fit enough.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Answerrth seems the answer to the problems we have had with small forwards getting away against us.

Agree with this, however we still had problems defending stoppages in our defensive half on Saturday night. The Giants scored 5 goals from around-the-ground stoppages, plus another 3 from centre bounces. I'm not sure how many of those 5 were from their front half, but GWS only scored 3 goals in total from their back half, and one of those was from a kick-in. So by my maths that's 3-5 goals conceded from stoppages in their front half.

We really need to be better in this regard. More broadly, conceding 15 goals in a final is concerning, with a similarly talented forward line (which kicked 11 goals from stoppages against Port) facing us on Saturday.

One positive is that the tsunami was largely quelled, as indicated by those 3 goals from back half. Geelong have shown their ability to move the ball well and score heavily from their back half this season, so we will need a repeat in this area.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Something I noticed during the game that I was intending to take as a positive out of a loss (before the last quarter!) - but to paraphrase David King, we weren’t being beaten by what we knew. The Giants in both games earlier the season cut us up in the outside with fast run and carry. I actually think we went a good way to curbing that and it wasn’t really an issue - and that did make me happy even when we were losing.

The first 3 quarters, the difference was a) Hogan and b) we were just generally playing messily (which is uncharacteristic).

Yes, honestly for 2 and a half quarters I think we were simply beaten in contests moreso than on the spread necessarily.

Which is also why I think the decision to do a very quick review on Saturday night and get straight onto the Geelong game is a good one. We know how to win contests, we just didn't for a large period, so I don't think we need to go hammer and tong on a review of the first 2.5 quarters, when largely I thought our game, structurally, actually wasn't too bad.

What's more important right now I believe is being able to come back to earth quickly enough to hit the ground running against Geelong, which we were unable to do 2 years ago.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I've got to ask Grasshopper; where did your mates go to pack up and leave and secondly, did they feel like gooses for missing the biggest comeback in AFL finals history. I wouldn't letting anyone live that down.

They're not massive footy fans. I think it was getting a bit cold for them. It was a lovely day but it chilled up pretty quickly at sunset. One of them was a bit tired. General soft as butter excuses

Family emergency, sure, but this was anything but

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yes, honestly for 2 and a half quarters I think we were simply beaten in contests moreso than on the spread necessarily.

Which is also why I think the decision to do a very quick review on Saturday night and get straight onto the Geelong game is a good one. We know how to win contests, we just didn't for a large period, so I don't think we need to go hammer and tong on a review of the first 2.5 quarters, when largely I thought our game, structurally, actually wasn't too bad.

What's more important right now I believe is being able to come back to earth quickly enough to hit the ground running against Geelong, which we were unable to do 2 years ago.

Plus Hogan had 5 goals to 3 quarter time. Take him out and it mightve been pretty even

 

[Section 5]

Plus Hogan had 5 goals to 3 quarter time. Take him out and it mightve been pretty even

We are lucky this time in that we only have to worry about the Coleman runner up

 

[dlanod]

I consider GWS to have the best set of key defenders in the league in Idun, Buckley and Taylor. They are an incredible group and I was not surprised our talls struggled with them except for Daniher in parts. Other than Joe’s final mark only Hippy took another mark inside fifty out of the three.

Idun plays small and matched up on Charlie a lot when I noticed.

Perryman and Himmelberg probably rotated Morris and Rayner, Himmelberg probably took Morris the most before the sub (just based off how GWS usually match up).