Shane Tuck

[Optimax]

I'm not even going to bother pointing out how ridiculous these proposals are.

I'm just going to suggest that you come back after the trade period and compare the deals you proposed here to the one that actually occurred.

i would imagine a kate third rounder would be teh best offer for him

 

[Old Spice]

I seem to recall some similar chat last year re Ray, Prismall and Dawson. High clearances is a good start and even better with good outside players.

Richmond are cleaning out the augean stables with a big broom right now so presumably will be using a fair few picks. I'd be willing to offer 3rd round plus Cox as Richmonds backline has a few similar gangly types.

Richmond would prefer of course not to have a massive chasm between youth and aged players, but that's whre they are and that means they would look at youngish trades plus using 3-4 picks.

 

[1eye]

Our last trade with richmond IIRC was the Mckee deal, still don't know why that recruiter is still with us after that

So at the risk of a severe rogering its a straight swap for corrie.

Rationally now AAAuuummmhhh, 3rd rounder.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Our last trade with richmond IIRC was the Mckee deal, still don't know why that recruiter is still with us after that

So at the risk of a severe rogering its a straight swap for corrie.

Rationally now AAAuuummmhhh, 3rd rounder.

Technically, Richmond supplied the pick #8 in the Tarrant deal.

They traded pick #8 to Freo for pick #13 and Polak, and then Freo traded us pick #8 and Medhurst for Tarrant.

So that was basically our last deal with Richmond.

 

[mdc]

I seem to recall some similar chat last year re Ray, Prismall and Dawson. High clearances is a good start and even better with good outside players.

Tuck is in no way outside. And the difference between him and the three players you've named is that the ones you've named played for Top 3 sides. Tuck plays for Richmond. Unlike the others, there's nothing unknown about him. There's no "well, in a new environment he could really flourish". He is what he is. Decidedly below average.

Fwiw, I was for getting Prismall, against getting Ray, and don't remember Dawson being discussed at all. But in hindsight, you'd have to say hanging onto our 2nd rounder was the best move we could have made.

 

[spartan-magpie]

I don't see how they are ridiculous half the Collingwood supporters commenting are saying about a 2nd rounder.
And Ben Reid doesn't even get a game at Collingwood so I really don't see your point.

once ben reid starts playing regular footy in the ones you will understand why your proposal for a reid tuck swap is so ridiculous.. having said that id be glad to part with a 3rd rounder for him.. would be a good pick up for us.. o'bree is slowly fading and we need a top up till the beamer and steelo are ready to dominate.
you could even pick one of stanley, cook, bryan or corrie as a sweetener in the deal...


3rd round plus one of them is about as good as you'll get..

 

[Histrionics]

Not a fan of the O'Bree hate.

He has one bad game and everyone wants him out.

 

[Gone Critical]

Tuck is in no way outside. And the difference between him and the three players you've named is that the ones you've named played for Top 3 sides. Tuck plays for Richmond. Unlike the others, there's nothing unknown about him. There's no "well, in a new environment he could really flourish". He is what he is. Decidedly below average.

Fwiw, I was for getting Prismall, against getting Ray, and don't remember Dawson being discussed at all. But in hindsight, you'd have to say hanging onto our 2nd rounder was the best move we could have made.

Post was saying Tucks a good clearance player who would be better with good outside players around him

 

[Dawson]

I don't see how they are ridiculous half the Collingwood supporters commenting are saying about a 2nd rounder.
And Ben Reid doesn't even get a game at Collingwood so I really don't see your point.

Then why not just keep your spud (see MDC, I dropped the plodding)

 

[spartan-magpie]

Not a fan of the O'Bree hate.

He has one bad game and everyone wants him out.

no hate by me.. he's been very good for our club. but its hard to ignore that he isnt as good as he used to be ,is not as effective as we needs him to be and doesnt play as many good games as need from him..
i always said if o'bree could hurt with his kicking he would have been a star... either way the sun is setting on a very good career and along with big pebs(although i still believe he has more to offer our club for 1 more season if his body is right) should decide or will be asked to retire this season or possibly after next...

 

[HFF]

This is like Collingwood offering Shane O'Bree to other football clubs. Sure they are solid AFL standard footballers but none you would actually consider trading for, particularly as you seek quality when trading.

There is no chance of him even being considered at Collingwood.

His disposal is just yuck!

Couldn't break into a side that finished in the bottom 4 and is a senior player.

 

[1eye]

Technically, Richmond supplied the pick #8 in the Tarrant deal.

They traded pick #8 to Freo for pick #13 and Polak, and then Freo traded us pick #8 and Medhurst for Tarrant.

So that was basically our last deal with Richmond.

Amez shamamez,

Thx for the clarification.

 

[Old Spice]

As Gone Critical said, my post was referring to Tuck feeding out.

Re Tuck getting time in a bottom four side. When the broom is out and the die is cast, offering game time to an older player in a bottoming out team turning to youth is not a top priority, especially one with a damaged eardrum who is an inside mid and needs to hear voice.

Beams will play that role, but I don't want to get stuck with 2nd year blues and a chasm of development when we're looking at a flag.

I do want dynasty and I do want a regular inflow of young players to keep things ticking over, but owing to our pre-Hine recruitment, we have a heap of really good young talent to come and some older players who are nearing the end. We have in my view an overabundance of young players that can't all play and I'd be for trying to land an already mature bodied player who can bridge the 2 years before the Beams' and Sidebottoms are ready.

I'm not for trading the 1st two picks, but for trying to make some deals with our 3rd round pick and an excess to requirements player like Cox.

 

[Ron]

Stanley + Cook + 4th rounder

No not really, unless thats what the Tiges want of course.

Wouldn't say no to him, but our first two round picks are not to be used for him.

 

[mdc]

As Gone Critical said, my post was referring to Tuck feeding out.

I read bad.

Look, if I thought for a second that he could be the type of player that gets his own ball and then creates for others, I'd be all over him. But he's just not. He's not too dissimilar to a Priddis or other grab-and-turnover specialists.

Plus, if you actually look at the numbers, our clearance differential is top 5 in the league, ahead of Geelong for instance. It's just not such a weakness that we need a flawed specialist veteran to come in and fix.

 

[Old Spice]

I read bad.

Look, if I thought for a second that he could be the type of player that gets his own ball and then creates for others, I'd be all over him. But he's just not. He's not too dissimilar to a Priddis or other grab-and-turnover specialists.

Plus, if you actually look at the numbers, our clearance differential is top 5 in the league, ahead of Geelong for instance. It's just not such a weakness that we need a flawed specialist veteran to come in and fix.

I'll have to ask what the 'clearance differential' means, the devil's always in the detail. A lot can be obscured in a broad midfield brigade and what cogs do what.

If as the poster of this thread suggests, Tuck as an individual player was in the top handful of contested midfield / stoppage extractors, then that is handy. Who is our comporable extractor?

 

[mdc]

I'll have to ask what the 'clearance differential' means, the devil's always in the detail. A lot can be obscured in a broad midfield brigade and what cogs do what.

Clearance Differential is just the average difference between the number of clearances the Pies get c.f. the opposition. We average 1.6 more than whoever we're playing, which is good for 5th best. Amazingly, Port is actually no.1

If as the poster of this thread suggests, Tuck as an individual player was in the top handful of contested midfield / stoppage extractors, then that is handy. Who is our comporable extractor?

Tuck was 18th in the league last year for average Clearances, and 35th in the league for average Effective Clearances. Hardly "top handful".

Swan is ahead of him in both categories, and O'Bree is not far off.

 

[Axl the great]

Tuck is a good player, cant beleive people think hes a spud, he has his flaws but is playing in a crap side with little to no help.
Im all for getting him and giving him a crack with good mids around him, if it doesnt work out so be it and he goes to the twos ala Corrie but should it work then weve just added another very handy mature recruit to our young side.
Good players play better with with good players around them, always the case and always will be.

 

[Barnzy]

Seconded, although plodding might be a tad harsh. Just 'spud' would have done me.

Must take a pretty big spud to be leading the contested possession count in the whole AFL before round 17 until he was infamously dropped for unknown reasons. Jobe Watson and Brett Kirk must be massive spuds too, both can get the ball and win clearances at will but they can't kick!

 

[targett]

Honestly we have/had trouble getting our hands on the ball recently.we need an inside player to dish off to our elite runners ie diddy davis thomas etc. TUCK is a mature body and can get the contested pill . Obree will retire and the smaller frames of Beams Sidey Wellingham need to develop to be able to fulfill Obrees absence. Tuck would be a good inclusion to the pies outfit and being in a much better side i would not be surprised to see his efficiancy rise.its not that bad compared to other same type players as listed

S.Tuck season2009 523 disposals @ 69% efficiancy
P.Hasleby 533 @ 75
k.Cornes 595 @ 75
M.Boyd 631 @ 70
L.Power 560 @ 74

whats your thoughts ??

 

[Old Spice]

Clearance Differential is just the average difference between the number of clearances the Pies get c.f. the opposition. We average 1.6 more than whoever we're playing, which is good for 5th best. Amazingly, Port is actually no.1.

That's what I meant about devil and detail. Port are number 1 in this state and we are 5 - it's just too nebulous as an indicator.

Tuck was 18th in the league last year for average Clearances, and 35th in the league for average Effective Clearances. Hardly "top handful".

Swan is ahead of him in both categories, and O'Bree is not far off.

Considering we have 16 teams in the competition, 18 is pretty good for clearances I would have thought and 35 for effective clearances puts him still in the top 2 in a team on bald stats.

When you think that top teams like Saints, Geelong, Dogs would absorb a fair proportion of 'effective clearance' players, 35 is not at all sloppy - still on the verge of top 2. Tap outs from Graham or Simmonds makes it even better.

 

[Invigoration]

Oh yay, lets get a downgraded Shane O'Bree!

And we only have to give up our most promising CHB... Really?! What did Collingwood do to be ever so lucky?!

 

[mdc]

That's what I meant about devil and detail. Port are number 1 in this state and we are 5 - it's just too nebulous as an indicator.

I have no idea how you've reached this conclusion. That Port is no.1 is nothing more than a curiousity. Lots of rubbish teams perform very well in one category or another. Of course they also perform poorly in a lot of others.

You'd struggle to find a cleaner statistic; it's addressing precisely how well we perform in the clearances as a team. There's nothing else you could use unless you want to go super-advanced.

Considering we have 16 teams in the competition, 18 is pretty good for clearances I would have thought and 35 for effective clearances puts him still in the top 2 in a team on bald stats.

It puts him slightly outside the top 2, and most teams don't carry 2 specialist clearance players (which was basically his role at Richmond). For example, if you adjust for Time On Ground, Pendlebury averages just as many effective clearances, and does a shitload more with them. Ditto for Didak and O'Bree.

When you think that top teams like Saints, Geelong, Dogs would absorb a fair proportion of 'effective clearance' players, 35 is not at all sloppy - still on the verge of top 2. Tap outs from Graham or Simmonds makes it even better.

Saints have 2, Dogs 3, Geelong 4. In fact, of the Top 30, only 15 come from clubs playing finals.

Basically, clearances in and of themselves say very little. They're completely dependent on how many ball-ups/throw-ins your team is involved in per game, for example. And this varies widely - which is why Saints only have 2 players in the top 30 and Geelong have 4, despite Saints being a better clearance team. The top teams also tend to rotate a lot more, which is certainly the case with us.

 

[Invigoration]

Must take a pretty big spud to be leading the contested possession count in the whole AFL before round 17 until he was infamously dropped for unknown reasons. Jobe Watson and Brett Kirk must be massive spuds too, both can get the ball and win clearances at will but they can't kick!

Your own club thinks he is shit, talking him up on the Collingwood BigFooty board isn't going to increase his value unfortunately.

At the end of the day, Tuck will still be worth a 5th rounder or a stab on in the PSD.

He is Ben Davies with 150 games under his belt. You keep him, we insist

Haha... Ben Reid... *facepalm*

 

[Barnzy]

Your own club thinks he is shit, talking him up on the Collingwood BigFooty board isn't going to increase his value unfortunately.

At the end of the day, Tuck will still be worth a 5th rounder or a stab on in the PSD.

He is Ben Davies with 150 games under his belt. You keep him, we insist

Haha... Ben Reid... *facepalm*

Well of course not. He's worth much more than a 5th rounder though, what a terrible trade that would be. Also to suggest he's a downgraded O'Bree is laughable, he shits all over him in every possible way. I'm no Tuck fan but that was hilarious.