Shattered, onto 2020. Where now?

[wicksy]

but why didnt we just belt the ball our way out of the ruck contests and then have the boys run onto it

You mean exactly what we did in the last?
Blows my mind that it took 7 quarter to work it out.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Seriously? You think Silvangi, Jones, Plowman, Marchbank, and Waterman are better than Maynard, Crisp, and Langdon (comparative positional issues aside) and that non-Collingwood supporters would agree that to be the case?

I actually rate them better when we're executing our system, but I doubt many non Pie fans would rate our 3 above any of those there.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Maynard, Langdon & Crisp are all far superior footballers then the names mentioned.

You’re a fool if you only think they are good due to our system. All are very talented players in their own right, and would start for a majority of the teams in the league and be just as good.

I will never understand your obsession with putting down such players performance down to our system.

I actually rate them, but I doubt many non Pie fans would. These aren't stellar elite types, they are good players who excel because of the way we play and structure.

Nothing to do with "putting them down"

 

[Saintly Viewed]

DeGoey spent a pre-season with Pendles learning how to be more professional. Sier should find someone and do the same.

That simple.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Now that I've compared like for like, and your analysis has been found wanting you pivot and change the goal posts. Sorry - but by your own analysis we stack up very well compared to all the teams you believe are ahead of us.

And as for your new pivot
Sorry - Silvangi, Jones, Plowman and Marchbank are NOT better players than Langdon, Maynard, Crisp. Tell me which list manager would take Silvangi, Jones (given his age) over any of our guys?

And, go to Footywire and compare Maynard to Waterman - which I did, and you'll get perspective.

Those teams have more young talent, I'm not suggesting they are I'm suggesting fans outside of this board would.

 

[Aishole]

I actually rate them, but I doubt many non Pie fans would. These aren't stellar elite types, they are good players who excel because of the way we play and structure.

Nothing to do with "putting them down"

You’re absolutely delusional, They are all rated highly and it is well known they are quality players. Probably actually more then Pies fans, people around here actually tend to be harsh on Maynard & Langdon- Especially Langdon. He cops it on here, but my non-pies mates reckon hes a gem.

No one is claiming they are ‘stellar elite’ types, but just because they aren’t doesn’t automatically label them ‘non rated by outsiders & only good due to structure’

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Yeah I don't reckon we're actually far off. It's just that 10 more seconds or a slightly better guided kick would have got us through to a GF and last year to a Premiership.

To be honest the hardest thing to achieve in 2020 will just be consistency, because it's going to feel like a grind to get all the way back again. The week in, week out of staying up and about and sticking side by side with one another. Being switched on and putting in a big pre-season.

I mean us, not the players, BTW.

 

[No SPIN]

Those teams have more young talent, I'm not suggesting they are I'm suggesting fans outside of this board would.

In your posts #145 above - you’re very clear.
“Please don’t tell me we have players under 30 to match these teams”
I clearly proved your lists were more than matched and in fact exceeded the WC, BNE and Carl list you offered.

It was never about what non pies supporters thought - it was about what you thought.

So if you’ve changed your mind based on the evidence just say so - no big deal.

 

[odoyle_rules]

Gee a lot of 'fans' jump off quickly. We kick an extra goal on Sat and all of a sudden the commentary would be completely different.

Take a step back and understand our achievements under duress. My keys for offseason would be to do the following:
- Get a KPF. Not many around so I would go to the draft, and look at free agency. For me, Westhoff stands out. Yes he is 33, but is extremely durable and can provide chopout in the ruck. Give him 1 year which buys us time to blood our own talent.
- Review the medical department. This year is not a one-off. We've had a bad run of injuries since 2011.
- Get an out-and-out crumber. Although our fwd line is small, aside from Stevo, there really isn't a crumber.
- Get some class of half-back to allow Maynard / Crisp midfield time. Quanor maybe the answer here - but we need the depth anyhow.

 

[sr36]

Is Luke Ball available?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Is Luke Ball available?

If he is, he's mine.

Dreamy.

 

[sr36]

If he is, he's mine.

Dreamy.

Proper steak sandwich eating bloke. Not some 'paleo looking flog' as Saintly Viewed coined Cotchin.

I reckon Maynes vegan crap cost us a granny berth. Any meat eater would have made the distance from there.

Death by a thousand kale leaves.

 

[jmac70]

Proper steak sandwich eating bloke. Not some 'paleo looking flog' as Saintly Viewed coined Cotchin.

I reckon Maynes vegan crap cost us a granny berth. Any meat eater would have made the distance from there.

Death by a thousand kale leaves.

Kale should be illegal

 

[NeverWobble]

For me it felt like a lot of our matches this year followed a similar pattern: 1 QTR Unstoppable, 2 QTRS Grind, 1 QTR Can't score at all.
We need to find a way to get the ascendancy out of those last 3qtrs above.
Can't be unstoppable all match and we seem quite adept at stopping the opposition's ascendancy (albeit sometimes too late) and getting back on even terms. So how do we get the upper hand?

Sometimes during the season we played a seemingly negative, slow, over cautious game style and appeared to be tweaking things a lot which counted against us. High disposal count and good inside 50 numbers for not much gain.
Bucks saying a couple times "we're still finding out what our best football looks like".
Constant injuries, playing a man down, multiple personnel changes week to week, readjustments to personnel as players returned from lay offs hurt our ability to perform consistently. Also our injuries were spread across all lines, whereas last year it was mostly down back.
We still seem unable at times to take advantage when we dominate inside 50's.
All these factors count against consistency of performance.

I think our experiment with the ultra high uncontested possession game might come in handy when we are trying to change momentum within a game or when we need to use up time to hold a lead late. But it shouldn't be our dominant style, rather a useful tactic.
We are very good at switching and spreading and I thought that this year we exited our backline well and went coast to coast more than recent years.
Defensive system was very good most of the time.
At centre bounces we obviously plan around Grundy being our best clearance winner by virtually tapping it to his feet. At stoppages he seems to get more creative and our mids seem to get on the move more. Definite improvement and variety of outlets needed at centre bounces (new assistant coach maybe?). De Goey/ Adams seem to be the only ones to get on the move here and actively rove the ball. Personnel stays the same for too long here, let's change things up a bit Bucks.
Need to utilise some different skillsets on the wing. Don't think we really adapted to the 6-6-6 set up well here. Only need one of Mayne/Phillips perhaps. Would love to see us roll some pace, marking ability and attacking kickers through the wings next year with Treloar, Crisp, WHE, Stevo, Elliott all possible options. Doing this might make us less dependent on the likes of Pendles/Sidey for quality delivery to our forwards. We get it in there enough but we desperately need to find some improvement here.
Another mobile, strong marking, pacey tall forward would be nice too of course. Change in assistant coach personnel here too maybe?

Injuries, we'll get them, can't stop that and you don't know who will be getting them most of the time. Get that German bloke over here pre-season or get ASIO to send a spy to Germany. If Magpies aren't finding plenty of worms in our training surface re-do the turf.
No betting, drug, booze, frisbee scandals!

Finally, settle on a dominant attacking game style that's suited for personnel and finals football early on and tweek that a little, rather than the other way around. We should know what our best football looks like!

You can probably tell I played in the late 70's and 80's and have no idea about modern football.

 

[sr36]

Kale should be illegal

I can't believe that marijuana leaves are illegal, but that scourge on society is freely bought and sold.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Proper steak sandwich eating bloke. Not some 'paleo looking flog' as Saintly Viewed coined Cotchin.

I reckon Maynes vegan crap cost us a granny berth. Any meat eater would have made the distance from there.

Death by a thousand kale leaves.

Had two 60 day dry aged scotchies last week.

Missus said what about some vegies to go with that.

I said no way I'm ruining it with tomato sauce!!!!!!!!!

 

[sr36]

Had two 60 day dry aged scotchies last week.

Missus said what about some vegies to go with that.

I said no way I'm ruining it with tomato sauce!!!!!!!!!

That’s pretty much how it goes down in my house. Then my wife makes a salad to go with the steak. Then i complain that she's mashed rather than smashed the avocado.

What have we become?

 

[sr36]

I actually rate them better when we're executing our system, but I doubt many non Pie fans would rate our 3 above any of those there.

Crisp is a star.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

That’s pretty much how it goes down in my house. Then my wife makes a salad to go with the steak. Then i complain that she's mashed rather than smashed the avocado.

What have we become?

You lost me me at avocado.

****in hipster!!

 

[sr36]

You lost me me at avocado.

fu**in hipster!!

I do like avocado, but I'm not a hipster. I've recently become a pub troll. One of my favourite hobbies at the moment is ordering a pot of Carlton really loudly and then watching half the pub turn and look at me with disdain.

 

[upnsmoke]

Nothing really to discuss until the trade / draft period has come and gone.

Until that time nothing has really changed - we'll get a few injured players back, a few old stalwarts will retire, we need quite a few players (both inside and outside the current best 22) to kick on and find something closer to their best footy after poorer seasons in 2019 will have a tough draw again and will need to be a lot better than we have been this year to make it into the top 4 in 2020.

Coaching staff need to be less conservative and more daring in their structures and game plan - can't have them persisting with whatever the hell it was we were doing for the first three quarters yesterday and then release the shackles and actually play half-decent footy in the last quarter when it's too late.

We've got a team entirely capable of playing dangerous chaos-style ball the way the Tigers do, but for some reason we're so focused on defensive structure and system that we look away entirely from something which should be a real strength. You've got to be willing to risk failure in order to ultimately succeed and the best sort of pressure you can place on an opposition is of the attacking kind that in turn disrupts their structures.

Tigers play chaotic but their defenders are absolutely disciplined... And rarely makes mistakes.

 

[upnsmoke]

I'm one of the few who values Langdon highly here. He is the one player that usually intercepts those inside 50 kicks by the other team that would usually land on their key forwards hands. Excellent read of the ball.

Pies have a versatile back line...
The weakness IMO is the lack of hard bodied explosive players off a bounce tap... DeGoey fixes that temporarily but Pies would absolutely thrive with a Gaff type of player next to the midfielders... Because the rest are more skilled and finesse rather than that quick strong bull... Dane Swan prime was the last time Pies had an elite type of player out there.

 

[jackcass]

I actually rate them better when we're executing our system, but I doubt many non Pie fans would rate our 3 above any of those there.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

 

[jackcass]

Crisp is a star.

2nd best rated general defender in the league. In order of rating:

Crisp (413 points)
Jones (343)
Maynard (311)
Weiterman (295)
Langdon (287)
Silvagni (188)
Marchbank (173)
Waterman (179)

 

[sr36]

2nd best rated general defender in the league. In order of rating:

Crisp (413 points)
Jones (343)
Maynard (311)
Weiterman (295)
Langdon (287)
Silvagni (188)
Marchbank (173)
Waterman (179)

He would have been All Australian 2 years running if the whole footy world didn't overrate loose man interceptors.