Shawn Marion. . . The Myth

[PHX]

Yes, this does deserve it own thread away from the troll thread, this is fact.

Dont kid yourself, this guy rarely goes "missing" during the play-offs and hurts his team, notice the underlined word.

Shawn Marion gets 5 points against the Spurs and suddenly he's a man who constantly goes missing in play-offs compared to his regular season, "the invisible man." IN ONE GAME! It takes more than one game of poor shooting, teamwork and being constantly exposed on the defensive end to be an invisible man.

What no one highlights is his work on the defensive end and the fact he only shot 2-4 so it wasnt like he was killing team opportunities like a 2-13 for example and being out of form for most of a few games running. He simply didnt shoot it, which in a team like the suns isnt a crime when you have Barbosa, Nash and Amare who were born to score it doesnt hurt.

Let's look closer again at this Marion myth. Lets compare his averages AND percentages to the regular season.

Lets start with figures (He's not an assists man so it's not relevent to put them in). . .

06-07
regular Playoffs
17.5ppg, 16.8 ppg
@.524, .500
9.8 r, 9.6 r
1.43 to, 0.89 turnovers


05-06
Regular Playoffs
21.8ppg, 20.4 ppg
@.525, .489
11.7 r, 11.8 r
1.5 to, 1.1 to


04-05
Regular Playoffs
19.4ppg 17.6ppg
@ .476, .484
11.3 r, 11.8 r.
1.5 to 1.4 to.

Hmmm big stats difference there, certainly gone missing.

1 or two points on average less is really going to cost the team, and the overall slight reduction in % would be due to increased playoff pressure D that would go with the majority of players I would say but its a still a very healthy percentage.



YES I'm not finished.

You might say, "yes but going missing like that and scoring only 5 in one game could be detrimental to your team!"
They won by 20 points in that game and Marion didnt cost his team, he shot 2-4, its no Dirk.

Cheers, this myth has been . . .

 

[TheNextBigThing]

What are his numbers like against San Antonio in the playoffs, this season and back in 05 in the WCF?
Serious question

 

[thepower]

for some reason phoenix rise i always thought you were a magic fan, i guess i only see "orlando".

 

[apollo_creed]

Good post PR.

I think some of the criticism he recieves is due but most of the crap said is exaggerated and easily factually disproven. (as you've proven here)

Considering you play better teams in the playoffs it's quite a commendable effort to average similar numbers.

 

[peternorth]

marion is a gun. his D is something your cant quantify. playing on parker shows his versatility.

 

[PHX]

I am a magic fan as you shouldve seen all season long before we were knocked out thepower, there is nothing wrong with showing the facts.

What's wrong with displaying what I see as correct? Let's see them. . .



Now TheNextBigThing I'll go and find them for ya.

OK,

06-07 series vs Spurs.
Game 1: 16points (.583), 6 rebounds, 0 turnovers
Game 2: 5 (.500), 10, 1
Game 3: 26(.524), 7, 2
Game 4: 12(.500), 12, 1

05-06 Western Conference Finals
on the same criteria as above. . .

Game 1: 24(.667), 13, 3
Game 2: 19(.450), 19, 1
Game 3: 10(.333), 18, 0
Game 4: 15(.545), 08, 1
Game 5: 20(.692), 10, 1
Game 6: 13(.500), 11, 1

EDIT: Now I think you must have been refering to the 04-05 play-offs vs Spurs. *runs off to fine more* Found.


04-05 vs Spurs WCF
Game 1: 3(.266), 9, 1
Game 2: 11(.450), 12, 1
Game 3: 6(.333), 9, 1
Game 4: 11(.417), 14, 1
Game 5: 8(.500), 10, 1


Well clearly he struggled in 04-05 against the Spurs, in games 1 and 3 especially, but considering his stats this series against that same team and last years WCF against Dallas I dont think that changes anything, he has proven that he no longer goes missing like 04-05 anymore against that very team and is much better with his shot selection as shown by the %s.

Marion has become a remarkably efficient player picked out in play-off action for no good reason.

Still shows as busted imo.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Cheers for that, i knew he got pretty low numbers in that series in 04/05 but i didn't think they were that low. Anyway i reckon that series alone is why he gets talked about going missing in playoffs, people tend to remember and bring up players poor performances rather than their good ones.
Much like people only remembering Dirk in the GS series rather than the regular season when it comes to him getting MVP.

 

[PHX]

Much like people only remembering Dirk in the GS series rather than the regular season when it comes to him getting MVP.

Naa uh.

Bit different when Dirk's are related to the exact same season and series compared to Marion regarded as an invisible man now for two quiet play-off games 2 years ago.

I dont agree.

Dirk has a chance to redeem himself in 12 months time when it comes to play-offs, until then I regard him as open season.

Marion had his chance to redeem himself and by those figures in the past 2 years I say he has.

Dirk '07=Marion '05.
Couple of decent games and runs but overall not good enough.

For Dirk's sake lets hope he takes Marion's path.

Let's hope people start seeing Marion's improvement instead of looking in the past.

ps. Marion better not have a shocker tommorrow or I can see I'm toast!

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Naa uh.

Bit different when Dirk's are related to the exact same season and series compared to Marion regarded as an invisible man now for two quiet play-off games 2 years ago.

I dont agree.

Dirk has a chance to redeem himself in 12 months time when it comes to play-offs, until then I regard him as open season.

Marion had his chance to redeem himself and by those figures in the past 2 years I say he has.

Dirk '07=Marion '05.
Couple of decent games and runs but overall not good enough.

For Dirk's sake lets hope he takes Marion's path.

Let's hope people start seeing Marion's improvement instead of looking in the past.

ps. Marion better not have a shocker tommorrow or I can see I'm toast!

I agree with you that you can't compare them, all i was saying is that people tend to bring up players bad games rather than their good ones. Meaning when people talk about Marion in the playoffs the first thing bought up is how he can go missing. While when talkin about Dirk people are gonna bring up how he done nothing in the GS series rather then talk about what else he has done.

Anyway this season was really the first time Dirks numbers were poor in the playoffs but this is the season they will remember.

Dirks Points and Rebs


Year Reg Season Playoffs
02/03 25/9 25/11
03/04 21/8 26/11
04/05 26/9 23/10
05/06 26/9 27/11
06/07 24/8 19/11

 

[PHX]

Yeah you're right about that but when you answer the critics at least you get most off your back.

Looking at it like that doesnt make Dirk's drop in that series gone look SO bad but I'd imagine all his shooting percentages were completely atrocious compared to the regular season which hurt his team even more.

 

[Gridlock'd]

I have probably been a bit harsh on the Matrix when it comes to his playoffs performances, I guess his disgusting performance against the Spurs in 04/05 always springs to mind first.

Saying he goes missing in the playoffs is a bit extreme, however it is fair to say that he isnt a playoff specialist who sets the world on fire either. He just gets the job done.

 

[jerry springer]

Lets start with figures (He's not an assists man so it's not relevent to put them in). . .

06-07
regular Playoffs
17.5ppg, 16.8 ppg
@.524, .500
9.8 r, 9.6 r
1.43 to, 0.89 turnovers


05-06
Regular Playoffs
21.8ppg, 20.4 ppg
@.525, .489
11.7 r, 11.8 r
1.5 to, 1.1 to


04-05
Regular Playoffs
19.4ppg 17.6ppg
@ .476, .484
11.3 r, 11.8 r.
1.5 to 1.4 to.

Hmmm big stats difference there, certainly gone missing.

1 or two points on average less is really going to cost the team, and the overall slight reduction in % would be due to increased playoff pressure D that would go with the majority of players I would say but its a still a very healthy percentage.

the simple fact is that his averages go down every play-off series.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

It's not the numbers you put up, it's what you put up when the game is in the balance.

 

[Gridlock'd]

It's not the numbers you put up, it's what you put up when the game is in the balance.

And for Shawn, thats not much.

 

[ekzistenz]

So you show stats to prove that Marion does worse in the playoffs and then you show the stats for a couple of series where Marion was horrible (played poorly in 9/15 games and all the closing games). Not to mention that he goes missing in the most important games and then you say the myths busted.