Should dream time at the MCG be shared among other clubs

[MightyHawks]

No, that isn't hammer - nail - head.

It's only half the picture..

The AFL and a few club presidents are heading to USA on a fact-finding mission to find ways in which equalisation can be achieved.

Probably the most obvious solution is to create a fair fixture for all teams. Not one that's tailored towards the same teams receiving most of the prime time games every year. Games such as Dreamtime and the Anzac Day are examples of the AFL creating an unbalanced fixture which artificially widens the gap between "haves" and "have-nots".

I'm not jealous of the Dreamtime fixture between Richmond and Essendon. I don't want see Hawthorn to play in such a game. I want all these secret handshake deals between AFL and clubs to be removed. I want to see the AFL release a fixture that actually looks different to the previous year's fixtures.

To me, the fixed blockbuster games are just another example of how Channel 7 is slowly destroying the competition it helped to grow through the 1960's, 70's and 80's.

Why would you be spending $$ trying to work out how to equalise the comp when the answers are obvious...

1. Don't give the stronger clubs advantages over the week clubs
2. Refer to point 1

 

[MightyHawks]

I meant it as you were focusing on the negatives regarding gate reciepts, but in turn the obvious positive was a helpful draw that led to a grand final appearance. It is extremely difficult to create a fixture of equal difficulty and equal 'revenue avenues' with our competition, considering we have 10 teams in one market, only 26 weeks to play games with 5 teams playing each other twice.

The smaller clubs have been small for a long time. the Big clubs have been big for a long time. Its not like the divide is something new. Who knows, If giving these smaller teams 'equal' tv time and no assistance they might be in even worse shape than they are now.

It's extremely difficult to achieve something when you are trying not to achieve it

 

[MightyHawks]

Why do we need to go back 20 years to see an appalling examples of racism when we have far more recent events to remind us how disgraceful humans can be?


and
Daw, Wells, Thomas 'racially abused' by Hawks fan

It's well documented that Hawthorn had a racist recruiting policy. Most if not all clubs have had issues of racism at some time or another

More than happy with how the Hawks are in this area in recent times

 

[telsor]

Why would you be spending $$ trying to work out how to equalise the comp when the answers are obvious...

1. Don't give the stronger clubs advantages over the week clubs
2. Refer to point 1

The theory (which I don't usually agree with) is that by growing the comp as a whole, you give the smaller clubs more.

For all the talk about the AFL being socialist, it's actually more like Reaganist 'tickle down economics'.

(madeup figures alert! consider this 'example' purely illustrative)
If North goes from 5% of 100M (5M) to 4% of 150M (6M), they might have more money, but the comp is more unbalanced.

 

[telsor]

It's well documented that Hawthorn had a racist recruiting policy. Most if not all clubs have had issues of racism at some time or another

More than happy with how the Hawks are in this area in recent times

Agree with the principle of this.

We can't move on and get better, if past errors are continually brought up.

Hawthorn's history in this regard is regretable, even shameful, but their improvement in this regard is admirable. I wont say they're currently perfect (I don't know enough and am not qualified to judge), but the improvement is worthy of respect.

 

[PieBeast]

It's well documented that Hawthorn had a racist recruiting policy. Most if not all clubs have had issues of racism at some time or another

More than happy with how the Hawks are in this area in recent times

So you brought up Winmar incident simply to justify your comments about disgusting Collingwood supporters knowing fully well it was a widespread problem at the time?

Admire your honesty.
Carry on.

 

[MightyHawks]

The theory (which I don't usually agree with) is that by growing the comp as a whole, you give the smaller clubs more.

For all the talk about the AFL being socialist, it's actually more like Reaganist 'tickle down economics'.

(madeup figures alert! consider this 'example' purely illustrative)
If North goes from 5% of 100M (5M) to 4% of 150M (6M), they might have more money, but the comp is more unbalanced.

You are completely correct here.

The issue isn't how much money the clubs have it's the proportion

North can have $100mil to spend next year, but if Collingwood have $200mil then it makes no difference

The AFL understand this (Demetriou isn't stupid).

It's just that a level playing field is a (very) secondary goal after maximising competition revenue

 

[MightyHawks]

Agree with the principle of this.

We can't move on and get better, if past errors are continually brought up.

Hawthorn's history in this regard is regretable, even shameful, but their improvement in this regard is admirable. I wont say they're currently perfect (I don't know enough and am not qualified to judge), but the improvement is worthy of respect.

Past errors do need to be brought up so we can move forward - I hate this idea of revisionist history

The idea of giving a life ban to the girl who called Goodesy as "Ape" is ridiculous

Who wants to be in a society where one comment can stay with you for life?

From what Goodesy is saying he wants this girl to learn from it and become a better person for it

When I was age 13 at school (in the 1980s) guys would throw up in the air chips or lollies and say "Jew Jump". I had no real understanding that this was offensive until my best mate at the time who was Jewish explained it to me.

Now should I be labelled forever as anti-semetic? Of course not

I learned, I understood, I changed my behaviour and I have always had Jewish friends

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The Dreamtime game should be played between Collingwood and Essendon on Anzac Day.

Timmy, you do come out with some very good lines!!!

 

[MightyHawks]

So you brought up Winmar incident simply to justify your comments about disgusting Collingwood supporters knowing fully well it was a widespread problem at the time?

Admire your honesty.
Carry on.

Collingwood supporters have a reputation unfortunately.

While there seems to be terrific improvement in society in general in tolerance, and Collingwood has shown terrific improvement too - it's not coincidence that Winmar raised his jumper at Victoria Park

My point about Collingwood and Essendon talking up about what respect they have for ANZAC Day yet allowing their supporters to walk off early when they've lost makes me think the Pies and Dons are more attracted to the cash than any ANZAC spirit

You'd think Eddie would've been on the front foot the next morning saying Collingwood supporters should stay to the end on ANZAC Day - win, lose or draw...

If the two clubs made a big deal about this then most of their supporters would stay!

Endurance Courage Mateship Sacrifice

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Collingwood supporters have a reputation unfortunately.

While there seems to be terrific improvement in society in general in tolerance, and Collingwood has shown terrific improvement too - it's not coincidence that Winmar raised his jumper at Victoria Park

My point about Collingwood and Essendon talking up about what respect they have for ANZAC Day yet allowing their supporters to walk off early when they've lost makes me think the Pies and Dons are more attracted to the cash than any ANZAC spirit

You'd think Eddie would've been on the front foot the next morning saying Collingwood supporters should stay to the end on ANZAC Day - win, lose or draw...

If the two clubs made a big deal about this then most of their supporters would stay!

Endurance Courage Mateship Sacrifice

I've never thought that there are differences in supporters from rival clubs. All clubs have the same distribution of passionate diehards and fly by nighters. What does vary, are the numbers that support the clubs. Collingwood by virtue of having the largest support base will thus have the largest number of diehards and unfortunately the largest number of bandwagon supporters that will leave early.
It's got nothing to do with the clubs involved.

 

[MightyHawks]

I've never thought that there are differences in supporters from rival clubs. All clubs have the same distribution of passionate diehards and fly by nighters. What does vary, are the numbers that support the clubs. Collingwood by virtue of having the largest support base will thus have the largest number of diehards and unfortunately the largest number of bandwagon supporters that will leave early.
It's got nothing to do with the clubs involved.

Really?

All clubs have all sorts of supporters.

I've even met Melbourne supporters with no teeth

But it's the % of the mix. No question each club has a different mix of supporters

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Really?

All clubs have all sorts of supporters.

I've even met Melbourne supporters with no teeth

But it's the % of the mix. No question each club has a different mix of supporters

No question?
Is this comment evidence based or eminence based?
Your comment on Melbourne supporters actually supports my comment 100%!

 

[MightyHawks]

No question?
Is this comment evidence based or eminence based?
Your comment on Melbourne supporters actually supports my comment 100%!

You won't believe it but when they conduct surveys and you include what team you support, they keep statistics on it

I'm surprised you've never seen any of it...

Just googled "Richmond supporters are more likely to" and this is what came up

http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com.au/2007/06/richmond-tigers-fans-are-gay.html

Plenty of studies have been done to show that there are differences in supporter bases - not just numerical

 

[Sttew]

What happens when Essendon and / or Richmond don't have any indigenous players in their best 22? Its unlikely but could happen.

 

[Bird Man]

i always thought it was the colours.. Tigers yellow and Dons Red and a shared black... makes sense to me

 

[5 Year Itch]

ESS & RIC combined provide the colour of the aboriginal flag.

perfect representation of indigenous round.

Pity a lot of muppets don't see this

 

[ManWithNoName]

Yeah let's give it to North Melbourne. That Eureka game was a rampaging success.

 

[Matt121]

I'm sorry but it should just be Essendon and Richmond for Dreamtime, thats it

 

[The_Ru]

i always thought it was the colours.. Tigers yellow and Dons Red and a shared black... makes sense to me

This makes sense but Essendon wore grey last night. Surely I'm not the only one who thought that was a terrible decision?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You won't believe it but when they conduct surveys and you include what team you support, they keep statistics on it

I'm surprised you've never seen any of it...

Just googled "Richmond supporters are more likely to" and this is what came up

http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com.au/2007/06/richmond-tigers-fans-are-gay.html

Plenty of studies have been done to show that there are differences in supporter bases - not just numerical

I think I'm more worried about you if you are reading and believing trash like that study. Then again, I didn't expect anything else from you....

 

[MightyHawks]

I think I'm more worried about you if you are reading and believing trash like that study. Then again, I didn't expect anything else from you....

You must be the only person who thinks that each club has an identical set of demographics

I'll start with a really obvious one for you... "age"

The "average" Melbourne supporter is older than the average "Hawthorn supporter"

 

[jangofett]

sick of richmond getting dreamtime. Such a soft team, lead by the turnover king himself trent cotchin

 

[gaelictiogar]

sick of richmond getting dreamtime. Such a soft team, lead by the turnover king himself trent cotchin

If you want a game with the potential to pull 80K year on year you have to hang it round the necks of two of four clubs. 2 of them are currently sharing Dreamtime having built the brand and deserving to keep it IMO, another is Collingwood who have 2 holiday games as it is. Admittedly one a gift for Melbourne's coffers. The other is Carlton. Unlike Richmond Carlton are guaranteed double headers annually against both Essendon and Collingwood. Do you want to give them another advantage?

If you understand Victorian football you'll see all this so What is it you want?

 

[jangofett]

If you want a game with the potential to pull 80K year on year you have to hang it round the necks of two of four clubs. 2 of them are currently sharing Dreamtime having built the brand and deserving to keep it IMO, another is Collingwood who have 2 holiday games as it is. Admittedly one a gift for Melbourne's coffers. The other is Carlton. Unlike Richmond Carlton are guaranteed double headers annually against both Essendon and Collingwood. Do you want to give them another advantage?

If you understand Victorian football you'll see all this so What is it you want?

It will still draw crowds. Its a spectacle. I want the winner each year to play the follwing year, and the loser to be replaced by another team. Melbourne teams get kissed on the ****