Opinion 13 Premierships Shared Between Just 4 Teams in the Last 17 years

[Swanssince91]

You can thank Brian Waldron for that, but not all of them were tarnished. From 2010, the Storm have had had long term success and don't whinge about where the Granny is played, because it's not something that is changeable from their perspective. They don't whine like little bitches!

Well I guess it's not different to having players salaries cleared from your cap

 

[Hoops]

This is as good a spot as any to post my updated VFL/AFL premiership ladder.

Rank	Club	Premierships	Par Premierships	Score	Change
1​	West Coast	4​	2.28​	1.76​
2​	Hawthorn	13​	7.46​	1.74​
3​	Essendon	16​	10.44​	1.53​
4​	Carlton	16​	10.85​	1.47​
4​	Collingwood	16​	10.85​	1.47​	1​
6​	Richmond	13​	9.48​	1.37​
7​	Melbourne	13​	10.31​	1.26​
8​	Adelaide	2​	1.99​	1.00​
9​	Geelong	10​	10.42​	0.96​
10​	Brisbane/Fitzroy	11​	11.53​	0.95​
11​	Port Adelaide	1​	1.60​	0.62​
12​	North Melbourne	4​	7.46​	0.54​
13​	Sydney	5​	10.60​	0.47​
14​	Western Bulldogs	2​	7.46​	0.27​
15​	St Kilda	1​	10.44​	0.10​
16​	Fremantle	0​	1.73​	0.00​
16​	University	0​	0.70​	0.00​
16​	Gold Coast	0​	0.73​	0.00​
16​	Greater Western Sydney	0​	0.67​	0.00​

Minimal changes with Collingwood moving up to equal 4th with Carlton

 

[kranky al]

8 flags won at the ‘G in the last 22 years of which 4 are Hawthorns - are we saying them being MCG tenants was the reason for their 4 flags?

Take away Hawthorns (who spend plenty of time in Tassie) - it’s 4 flags won at the ‘G by MCG tenants in 22 years. Two of those are Collingwood where we finished first and earned the right to host the GF at the ‘G.

Hardly riveting numbers.

teams who play substantially more games at the gf venue are 2:1 in winning gf’s.

 

[Noidnadroj]

And this sounds right to everyone?

Where do you rate the Pies list, pound for pound? Their flag team had:

Frampton : Crows reject
Markov: Tiger and GC reject
WHE: average player
Cox: Yank who averages 7-touches a game.
Ginnivan: young kid who doesn’t produce much.
Pendles and Sidey: still very good players but both 34+
Mitchell: Hawks cast off
Lipinski: Average on-baller
Mihocek and McStay: handy KPF’s but nothing special
McReery: Role player who averaged 10 touches and kicked just 17 goals in 25 games in 2023

In other words… some teams are better managed, better developed and better coached than others. There’s no magic beans delivering flags. There’s no reason why any team can’t win flags - it’s not based on playing list, as the Pies list is probably mid-table. They were just the best coached and most disciplined team in 2023, simple as that.


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[PhatBoy]

What’s the point of this post? What else is the afl supposed to do to try and manufacture more equality?

 

[PieLebo87]

teams who play substantially more games at the gf venue are 2:1 in winning gf’s.

I agree. As mentioned before, Collingwood has never won a flag playing an interstate side unless they’ve earnt the right to play it at the MCG. Curious to know how many other sides have in the last 30 years.

 

[Swanssince91]

Where do you rate the Pies list, pound for pound? Their flag team had:

Frampton : Crows reject
Markov: Tiger and GC reject
WHE: average player
Cox: Yank who averages 7-touches a game.
Ginnivan: young kid who doesn’t produce much.
Pendles and Sidey: still very good players but both 34+
Mitchell: Hawks cast off
Lipinski: Average on-baller
Mihocek and McStay: handy KPF’s but nothing special
McReery: Role player who averaged 10 touches and kicked just 17 goals in 25 games in 2023

In other words… some teams are better managed, better developed and better coached than others. There’s no magic beans delivering flags. There’s no reason why any team can’t win flags - it’s not based on playing list, as the Pies list is probably mid-table. They were just the best coached and most disciplined team in 2023, simple as that.


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Reminds me alot of the swans in 2012, Collingwood probably had better players around the ball

 

[kranky al]

I agree. As mentioned before, Collingwood has never won a flag playing an interstate side unless they’ve earnt the right to play it at the MCG. Curious to know how many other sides have in the last 30 years.

Yeah but you can’t claim earning it when you still play at the same venue when you don’t earn it.

That’s an each way bet.

 

[Swanssince91]

Yeah but you can’t claim earning it when you still play at the same venue when you don’t earn it.

That’s an each way bet.

Be nice if we had a chance to earn it

 

[PieLebo87]

Be nice if we had a chance to earn it

To be fair, you had 2 chances in the last 3 years and the flags were still won by a Vic side.

 

[Swanssince91]

To be fair, you had 2 chances in the last 3 years and the flags were still won by a Vic side.

We were rebuilding

 

[PieLebo87]

We were rebuilding

Sydney and rebuilding don’t go together. You guys are always competing. That’s what I love/respect about the Swans.

 

[kranky al]

Be nice if we had a chance to earn it

That’s the thing, I don’t even want to earn it.

I wanna see who’s the best - not who’s the best at our home ground - if you are a top 4 team you are either best or second best at your home ground.

I wanna see my team be the best at a neutral ground. Then you know you’re the best - no arguing.

Rotated venues created the most opportunity of this.

 

[Swanssince91]

Sydney and rebuilding don’t go together. You guys are always competing. That’s what I love/respect about the Swans.

We deserved the home ground advantage in 2014 & 16

 

[PieLebo87]

That’s the thing, I don’t even want to earn it.

I wanna see who’s the best - not who’s the best at our home ground - if you are a top 4 team you are either best or second best at your home ground.

I wanna see my team be the best at a neutral ground. Then you know you’re the best - no arguing.

Rotated venues created the most opportunity of this.

Like I said before, there was an opportunity 2 years in a row, and Vic sides won those flags.

 

[kranky al]

Like I said before, there was an opportunity 2 years in a row, and Vic sides won those flags.

You mean the two years it was on the road, we had two neutral grand finals

Seems to me rotating grand finals works well.

In all the years the Super Bowl has been going only once has a tenant faced a non tenant.

 

[Rotayjay]

This Next Generation AcademyTM or whatever they're calling it bull s**t is yet another nail in the coffin of equalisation. Top-line players that high-ranking clubs can get at a heavy discount instead of going to the open draft. The draft is meant to help struggling teams and now it's perpetuating existing success.

 

[Blackas87]

You mean the two years it was on the road, we had two neutral grand finals

Seems to me rotating grand finals works well.

In all the years the Super Bowl has been going only once has a tenant faced a non tenant.

Super Bowl a bit different, 32 teams at 32 different stadiums.

AFL clubs share venues.

West Coast vs Fremantle grand final scheduled at the Gabba doesn’t seem right to me.

 

[kranky al]

Super Bowl a bit different, 32 teams at 32 different stadiums.

AFL clubs share venues.

West Coast vs Fremantle grand final scheduled at the Gabba doesn’t seem right to me.

They tend recycle the same venues.

Miami has hosted more Super Bowls than any other city, with 11. Six of those have been hosted at what is now called Hard Rock Stadium, with the now-demolished Orange Bowl hosting the other five. The last Super Bowl to be hosted in Miami was in 2020, when the Kansas City Chiefs defeated the San Francisco 49ers 31-20.

However, Miami’s spot alone atop the list will only last for a couple more years. New Orleans is set to join Miami on 11 Super Bowls when it hosts the 2025 Super Bowl. That will see the Superdome host its eighth Super Bowl, further extending that stadium’s lead over Hard Rock Stadium in second place. The other three Super Bowls to be hosted in New Orleans were in the now-demolished Tulane Stadium.

 

[Caligo]

What’s the point of this post? What else is the afl supposed to do to try and manufacture more equality?

One big thing it could do might be protections around bottom 4 teams being raided by top 4 teams, Lynch being the prime example.

 

[Rotayjay]

A totally neutral rotated grand final venue (such as the Gabba in 2020 and Perth in 2021) is the best from a purist perspective - neither side gets a home ground advantage. However, it seems silly to make both supporter bases travel. I get that there are Richmond supporters living in Brisbane and Bulldogs supporters living in Perth, but you get the idea. This isn't the United States where you don't need to cross a desert to drive between Chicago and Miami, where there is genuine airline competition instead of our duopoly and a huge population to support seats on planes.

If the grand final venue was set at the last minute (the home ground of the higher-ranked grand finalist), that would sit well with me in terms of fairness because they earned the right. But that has precisely zero chance of being done since the AFL and its corporates won't consider setting the venue with one week's notice.

I think there is at least some home ground and home state advantage on grand final day. Yet playing the granny away from the MCG doesn't sit right with me from a cultural perspective. I have a similar view on playing the GF in the day versus night time. It may sound strange coming from a non-Victorian supporter whose side lost an MCG grand final, but that's my feeling nonetheless.

 

[PhatBoy]

One big thing it could do might be protections around bottom 4 teams being raided by top 4 teams, Lynch being the prime example.

That’s true I could cop that

 

[Blackas87]

They tend recycle the same venues.

Miami has hosted more Super Bowls than any other city, with 11. Six of those have been hosted at what is now called Hard Rock Stadium, with the now-demolished Orange Bowl hosting the other five. The last Super Bowl to be hosted in Miami was in 2020, when the Kansas City Chiefs defeated the San Francisco 49ers 31-20.

However, Miami’s spot alone atop the list will only last for a couple more years. New Orleans is set to join Miami on 11 Super Bowls when it hosts the 2025 Super Bowl. That will see the Superdome host its eighth Super Bowl, further extending that stadium’s lead over Hard Rock Stadium in second place. The other three Super Bowls to be hosted in New Orleans were in the now-demolished Tulane Stadium.

Fair enough but the chances a host city has a tenant in the game are slim, where as AFL share venues. I think highest ranked team hosting is better for the AFL.

 

[marshdogg]

And this sounds right to everyone?

let's walk through each club with 0.

essendon: had dodoro managing their list
carlton: still recovering from salary cap breaches (I think this hurt the club more than people realise)
St.kilda: missed their chance with the golden generation
adelaide/port: got close several times
freo: never really had a great list on paper
north: actually got pretty close a few times but there is a recency bias.
gws/gc: are new
brisbane: lost their concessions that handed them 01/02/03.

seems pretty fair to me. it's impossible to have a completely fair competition.

the only thing I would throw out their us that Geelong have an articficial COLA because Geelong is such a great place to live.

 

[kranky al]

Fair enough but the chances a host city has a tenant in the game are slim, where as AFL share venues. I think highest ranked team hosting is better for the AFL.

Theres arguments in favour and against it.

What id really like to see is the afl chartering some jets and making sure fans don’t get raped on ticket prices.

If the venue is known well in advance that’s possible with a very limited chance of it going to waste - ie they charter the jets and it ends up collingwood vs carlton at the g.

If in 20xx it’s in perth - there is a very low chance it’s a derby so there’s gonna be at least 20k fans flying possibly a lot more if it’s two out of state teams.

Id like the afl to keep the airlines honest by providing a charter at a fixed price. Instead of the current arrangement where the airlines rort us all finals and esp the granny.