Should WA secede from the Commonwealth?

[MightyFighting]

This is so stupid.

The people of Perth have found that there exists significant mineral wealth within the Pilbara, which is a long way from Perth, but happens to have been placed within the boundaries of WA. Some of them have then concluded this wealth should not have to be shared with the rest of the class, as if the people of Perth have somehow "earned" it.

Perhaps the people of the Pilbara resent having to share their resources tax revenue with the people of Perth.

 

[1jasonoz]

This is so stupid.

The people of Perth have found that there exists significant mineral wealth within the Pilbara, which is a long way from Perth, but happens to have been placed within the boundaries of WA. Some of them have then concluded this wealth should not have to be shared with the rest of the class, as if the people of Perth have somehow "earned" it.

Perhaps the people of the Pilbara resent having to share their resources tax revenue with the people of Perth.

I'm working on one of the biggest LNG projects in the world right now in the Pilbara, why shoudl those southerns from Perth who aren't involved in the project get the tax revenue over me?

 

[Clay Davis]

The agriculture sector won't even go close to filling the void left by the mining boom, even enough for the state to survive.

You ARE benefiting from the mining boom, you're just not getting it all. Consider the cut that the rest of the country is taking to be a down payment for having to prop your economy up for the rest of eternity when it's all over.

Personally I agree WA should get a bit more federal funding than they do currently, but the parochialism of sandgropers badgering for independence is ridiculous. The state simply doesn't have a sustainable economy, so in the longterm it needs the rest of Australia.

It does have a sustainable economy.

Or do you think the NSW + VIC economies that export little and thrive on debt is sustainable?

 

[Caesar]

NSW and Victoria are not talking about seceding.

The whole national economy is in need of transformation to address the balance of payments; this is not news, it's a process that's been going on for the last 25+ years. Because of the nature of individual state economies that's a process that's best attacked together, as a federation.

Take NSW's economy. It's balance of payments is awful, absolutely atrocious. Nonetheless it provides a lot of things crucial to the rest of the country - Sydney is the financial services hub, the manufacturing centre, the multinational business centre. If it dropped out of Australia tomorrow, the Commonwealth would be significantly worse off.

It's a symbiotic relationship. WA saying 'let's secede' is a shortsighted approach that is only workable whilst the good times keep rolling with the minerals boom. The reality is that all the states are better off as part of a group, because they stand a better chance of solving their problems collectively.

 

[Moo]

Perhaps the people of the Pilbara resent having to share their resources tax revenue with the people of Perth.

Perhaps but royalties for regions is in place over here, can we have a national version of this and fed funds?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

This is so stupid.

The people of Perth have found that there exists significant mineral wealth within the Pilbara, which is a long way from Perth, but happens to have been placed within the boundaries of WA. Some of them have then concluded this wealth should not have to be shared with the rest of the class, as if the people of Perth have somehow "earned" it.

Perhaps the people of the Pilbara resent having to share their resources tax revenue with the people of Perth.

Massive ignorance on your part.

Firstly, it has been WA's not federal investment in infrastructure which has helped facilitate the mining boom.

Secondly, we get absolutely ripped off when it comes to the GST redistribution. We have a recent history of managing our finances well, why then should the state be punished and made to help fund NSW/Vic because of their state governments incompetence.

But WA has worn this, unfortunately now the federal government wants to take control of far more of WA's GST revenue and eliminate state mining royalties.

The people of WA are getting absolutely pantsed.

 

[morgoth]

Yes they should leave.

You would then control immigration and I would suggest that a lot of smart people from the Eastern states would be looking to move over pretty quickly.

WA should also be putting pressure on its Senators, regardless of party, to do what they are meant to do and vote in the State's interest not Kevins.

 

[Clay Davis]

NSW and Victoria are not talking about seceding.

The whole national economy is in need of transformation to address the balance of payments; this is not news, it's a process that's been going on for the last 25+ years. Because of the nature of individual state economies that's a process that's best attacked together, as a federation.

Take NSW's economy. It's balance of payments is awful, absolutely atrocious. Nonetheless it provides a lot of things crucial to the rest of the country - Sydney is the financial services hub, the manufacturing centre, the multinational business centre. If it dropped out of Australia tomorrow, the Commonwealth would be significantly worse off.

It's a symbiotic relationship. WA saying 'let's secede' is a shortsighted approach that is only workable whilst the good times keep rolling with the minerals boom. The reality is that all the states are better off as part of a group, because they stand a better chance of solving their problems collectively.

Wouldn't be hard to attract the finance industry to WA. Cut the company tax rate to nothing and business would relocate.

My issue was with the idea that their economy is unsustainable. The mineral wealth will run out one day, but at current production rates there's still 70 years worth of economic iron ore left, and around 100+ years of nickel remaining. That day is a long way into the future. Frankly, when WA runs out of iron ore it will be the whole planet that is screwed, not just WA.

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

And we have barely touched the biggest uranium resource on the planet.
New oil and gas fields are being discovered, with more to come no doubt.


Crank up a massive nuclear waste depository for the world in Halls Creek or the like, and our long term future is sitting pretty.

 

[mess]

We would war your guts out.

 

[NineteenEighty4]

Re: Should WA succeed from the Commonwealth?

You seem genuinely interested in finding out more. I suggest Kim Hough for further info. He has a good law team that has his company in possession of 600 tonnes of hemp seed for growing and processing for food. Something thought impossible just a few years ago. He know's the history and how/if secession is on the agenda in the future.

Cheers mate. I will look into this, appreciate the heads up.

The thing is the federation that was created by the Framers of our constitution in 1901 is vastly different from the Commonwealth dominated federation that exists today.

A State should be entitled to withdraw from the federation if the relationship changes so significantly from that which was agreed back in 1901.

We are now in a position where federalism has been replaced by centralism where Canberra controls almost all of the revenue. There is no way WA would have signed up to the federation if Canberra controlled income taxation, were screwing us on GST, were trying to withhold our own GST revenue to claim it as their own health funding, and now trying to take state mining royalties.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

That is exactly the type of arrogance in the east that builds the secession movement in WA.

There was no arrogance. Just truth.

 

[RU486]

About time I a thread like this has been made, long overdue.

GDP Per Capita in WA is ~$70 000. If WA could maintain such GDP after succeeding this would make them of the richest country's in the world and the quality of life would be immense.

Would it be possible if Australia became a republic that WA could refuse to and hence form their own democracy.

 

[1jasonoz]

And we have barely touched the biggest uranium resource on the planet.
New oil and gas fields are being discovered, with more to come no doubt.

Crank up a massive nuclear waste depository for the world in Halls Creek or the like, and our long term future is sitting pretty.

Commonwealth waters.

 

[morgoth]

Commonwealth waters.

If they left the Commonwealth those waters would no longer be part of the Commonwealth and would revert to the new country. Not hard to grasp.

Are East Timors waters still part of Indonesia? Nope. Australia would lose most of its mineral wealth and a massive chunk of its tax revenue over-night.

 

[Schism]

If WA did secede, what's to stop Australia saying "thanks, everything north of Perth is ours. Enjoy the SW corner."

What are ya gonna do?

 

[NineteenEighty4]

Would it be possible if Australia became a republic that WA could refuse to and hence form their own democracy.

I would think so.

In the 1980's the Commonwealth and the UK Parliament passed the mirror Australia Acts which:
1. removed the legal ties between Australia and the UK; and
2. removed the UK Parliament's power to legislate in relation to individual Australian States.

My understanding is that the Commonwealth Parliament could not legislate in relation to point 2 without the consent of each and every State.

Because of this WA had to pass this Act:
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_64_homepage.html

This seems to suggest that the Commonwealth could not alter its sovereign head of state without obtaining WA's consent in a similar piece of legislation.

WA Currently has its own constitution:
http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_64_homepage.html

And our constitution prevails to the extent that it is not inconsistent with the Commonwealth Consitution. The Commonwealth Consitution was proclaimed by Her Majesty as sovereign, and therefore if the Commonwealth decides to become a republic a new Constitution (albeit probably with minimalistic amendments) would need to be enacted.

That being the case, could WA argue that (in the absence of similar consenting legislation that we passed in relation to the Australia Acts) we only ever agreed for our constitution to be subject to the Commonwealth Consitution, not a new consitution with a new head of state?

 

[1jasonoz]

If they left the Commonwealth those waters would no longer be part of the Commonwealth and would revert to the new country. Not hard to grasp.

You expect the Commonwealth to hand over royalties which in some cases are almost 200nm offshore do you?

Are East Timors waters still part of Indonesia? Nope. Australia would lose most of its mineral wealth and a massive chunk of its tax revenue over-night

Your comparing East Timor to Australia are-No idea

 

[morgoth]

You expect the Commonwealth to hand over royalties which in some cases are almost 200nm offshore do you?

Your comparing East Timor to Australia are-no idea

Under international law Austrlalia would have no claim. East Timor was part of Indonesia. Indonsia had the claim over the waters. East Timor gets independence and therefore those waters transfer to East Timor, hence the royalty stream they will reciever from the Timor sea gas fields (Indonesia gets nothing).

Do you get it? West Australia would be a seperate country the coastal waters would belong to them, not to Australia. Its called international law, governed by treaties with the UN which Australia is signatory to and obliged to follow.

 

[1jasonoz]

Under international law Austrlalia would have no claim. East Timor was part of Indonesia. Indonsia had the claim over the waters. East Timor gets independence and therefore those waters transfer to East Timor, hence the royalty stream they will reciever from the Timor sea gas fields (Indonesia gets nothing).

Do you get it? West Australia would be a seperate country the coastal waters would belong to them, not to Australia. Its called international law, governed by treaties with the UN which Australia is signatory to and obliged to follow.

Under international law Austrlalia would have no claim. East Timor was part of Indonesia. Indonsia had the claim over the waters. East Timor gets independence and therefore those waters transfer to East Timor, hence the royalty stream they will reciever from the Timor sea gas fields (Indonesia gets nothing).

Under international law the half way point for the division of the resources when 2 countries are within 400nm of each other is divided straight down the middle-this did not happen with East Timor.

 

[morgoth]

Under international law the half way point for the division of the resources when 2 countries are within 400nm of each other is divided straight down the middle-this did not happen with East Timor.

Ha ha and what part of WA overlaps the rest of Australia? Last time I checked their coast line was mainly the Indian Ocean where there is no other part of Australia. So where is the overlap?

Australia would have no claim and anyone with a logical brain can see it.

 

[1jasonoz]

Ha ha and what part of WA overlaps the rest of Australia? Last time I checked their coast line was mainly the Indian Ocean where there is no other part of Australia. So where is the overlap?

Australia would have no claim and anyone with a logical brain can see it.

Australia would have no claim and anyone with a logical brain can see it

That leaves you out doesn't?

Last time I checked their coast line was mainly the Indian Ocean where there is no other part of Australia. So where is the overlap?

Go read a map will you, and have good hard look again. Have you ever been to the North East WA, around Ashmore Reef, Browse Basin etc by chance?

Also are you still trying to compare East Timor to WA are you?

 

[NineteenEighty4]

Ha ha and what part of WA overlaps the rest of Australia? Last time I checked their coast line was mainly the Indian Ocean where there is no other part of Australia. So where is the overlap?

Australia would have no claim and anyone with a logical brain can see it.

Morgs, dont waste your time trying to explain logic to this guy.

I think most educated people can accept that IF Western Australia is able to cede from the Commonwealth and become a separate nation state, then we would be entitled to the same maritime jurisdiction as anyother nation state at international law.

Obviously WA would share a border with Northern Territy and South Australia. However there is an entire body of international law dealing with how the maritime border is determined in this situation. After all, it is quite common for this to arise in countries that are not land locked around the world.

Given that WA's royalties do not extend to the offshore areas at the moment, WA would reap an absolute windfall from its new territorial waters.

Yes, we would have to spend some of this on defence and border protection, but that is no different from the current situation where we send our money over east, and then allocate only a fraction to the defense of the WA Coastline (with the majority being spent on military bases in the Eastern States which is just completely illogical given that any attack will probably come through or from the Northern Peninsula).

 

[morgoth]

That leaves you out doesn't?



Go read a map will you, and have good hard look again. Have you ever been to the North East WA, around Ashmore Reef, Browse Basin etc by chance?

Also are you still trying to compare East Timor to WA are you-NFI stick to the Liberal party meetings will you.

Oh and how long till you send me another PM whinging like a stuck pig?

Ha ha, the Indian Ocean fool, the North West Shelf no shared border at all. They would have a massive undisputed coast line with huge revenue streams. Australia would be cut out of them.

Enjoy the Pies destroying your rabble this week. What jumper will you wear this time? After all the AFL lets us wear what we want. Pity it is our home game probably 60,000 there and no gate for the poor old pauper roos. Maybe you can get Rudd to pass a tax on Pies supporters to 'share' the wealth.

 

[1jasonoz]

Ha ha, the Indian Ocean fool, the North West Shelf no shared border at all. They would have a massive undisputed coast line with huge revenue streams. Australia would be cut out of them.

Enjoy the Pies destroying your rabble this week. What jumper will you wear this time? After all the AFL lets us wear what we want. Pity it is our home game probably 60,000 there and no gate for the poor old pauper roos. Maybe you can get Rudd to pass a tax on Pies supporters to 'share' the wealth.

Ha ha, the Indian Ocean fool, the North West Shelf no shared border at all. They would have a massive undisputed coast line with huge revenue streams. Australia would be cut out of them.

WA's coast if you ever had been there includes the Timor sea and the offshore resources in the Browse Basin, Ashmore reef etc-but you have never been there have you?

Enjoy the Pies destroying your rabble this week. What jumper will you wear this time? After all the AFL lets us wear what we want. Pity it is our home game probably 60,000 there and no gate for the poor old pauper roos. Maybe you can get Rudd to pass a tax on Pies supporters to 'share' the wealth.
.

More waffle from you i see!!

And why the sudden interest in WA and the Mineral industry, why not defend Queensland which is also heavily dependant on the Resource industry-oh thats right WA equals a Liberal Government and QLD doesn't.