Simon Black v Scott Pendlebury?

[M Malice]

Two great players who have a common trait in seemingly making time stand still when they have possession, hairs breath in it IMO. Who is the better player?

Simon Black- 322 games, 171 goals, 3 x premiership player, 1 x Brownlow, 1 x Norm Smith Medal, 3 x All Australian, 3 x B&F.

Scott Pendlebury- 308 games, 178 goals, 1 x premiership player, 1 x Norm Smith Medal, 6 x All Australian, 5 x B&F.

 

[Augmented Boat]

Very good comparison I vote Simon Black because football was much better to watch back then

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Black, comfortably.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Simon Black. Imagine winning a Norm Smith in a team that included Voss,Akermanis and Lappin

 

[bungalow_bill]

Black, comfortably.

Poll reflecting that opinion

 

[adammania9]

Black like every Brisbane player from that side seems to get better and better with each day following retirement. No doubt he was a gun player and in a champion team, but he wasn’t as good as he’s so often made out to have been. Remarkably good ball user out of the middle and he didn’t make mistakes, but he didn’t have the volume that Pendles has always had.

Pendlebury plays at a higher level more consistently. Black basically never ever played a bad game, but he didn’t as frequently play at the high level that Pendlebury has for so long. If he did, he’d have won more than 3 AA jumpers, and at least one in a year where he wasn’t surrounded by premiership players. His last jacket came in 03 at 24 years old, Pendlebury made his sixth last year at 31 and so far in 2020 has still not let down.

Black was a gun but Pendles has gone past him, however Collingwood players lose every poll so I’m not surprised at the early numbers. Pendlebury would lose a poll to Daniel Kerr.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Black like every Brisbane player from that side seems to get better and better with each day following retirement. No doubt he was a gun player and in a champion team, but he wasn’t as good as he’s so often made out to have been. Remarkably good ball user out of the middle and he didn’t make mistakes, but he didn’t have the volume that Pendles has always had.

Pendlebury plays at a higher level more consistently. Black basically never ever played a bad game, but he didn’t as frequently play at the high level that Pendlebury has for so long. If he did, he’d have won more than 3 AA jumpers, and at least one in a year where he wasn’t surrounded by premiership players. His last jacket came in 03 at 24 years old, Pendlebury made his sixth last year at 31 and so far in 2020 has still not let down.

Black was a gun but Pendles has gone past him, however Collingwood players lose every poll so I’m not surprised at the early numbers. Pendlebury would lose a poll to Daniel Kerr.

Winning a Brownlow in arguably playing alongside the greatest midfield in modern AFL history is testament to Black's greatness. This isn't an anti Clingwood conspiracy FFS.

 

[adammania9]

Winning a Brownlow in arguably playing alongside the greatest midfield in modern AFL history is testament to Black's greatness. This isn't an anti Clingwood conspiracy FFS.

They all won Brownlows. Typically when you're in a good side, and win games, you'll win votes. Black playing alongside champions worked in his favour, not against him.

 

[Dom PC]

Black like every Brisbane player from that side seems to get better and better with each day following retirement. No doubt he was a gun player and in a champion team, but he wasn’t as good as he’s so often made out to have been. Remarkably good ball user out of the middle and he didn’t make mistakes, but he didn’t have the volume that Pendles has always had.

Pendlebury plays at a higher level more consistently. Black basically never ever played a bad game, but he didn’t as frequently play at the high level that Pendlebury has for so long. If he did, he’d have won more than 3 AA jumpers, and at least one in a year where he wasn’t surrounded by premiership players. His last jacket came in 03 at 24 years old, Pendlebury made his sixth last year at 31 and so far in 2020 has still not let down.

Black was a gun but Pendles has gone past him, however Collingwood players lose every poll so I’m not surprised at the early numbers. Pendlebury would lose a poll to Daniel Kerr.

Black came second in the Brownlow twice, in 2007 and 2008... so arguably the second best midfielder in the comp at age 28 and 29... both those years very unlucky to not be AA... he didn't get the luxury of playing Friday night footy every 2nd weekend too (which certainly helps in awards like AA).

I think it's fair enough people think Black edges out Pendles.

 

[adammania9]

Black came second in the Brownlow twice, in 2007 and 2008... so arguably the second best midfielder in the comp at age 28 and 29... both those years very unlucky to not be AA... he didn't get the luxury of playing Friday night footy every 2nd weekend too (which certainly helps in awards like AA).

I think it's fair enough people think Black edges out Pendles.

That’s a weak argument. The Lions still played a fair share of big Friday and Saturday night games in those middling years.

 

[Dom PC]

That’s a weak argument. The Lions still played a fair share of big Friday and Saturday night games in those middling years.

Briabane had one Thursday night game and zero Friday night games in 2007.

In 2008, Brisbane had zero Thursday night games and one Friday night game.

Your argument is weaker than mine so far...

 

[adammania9]

Briabane had one Thursday night game and zero Friday night games in 2007.

In 2008, Brisbane had zero Thursday night games and one Friday night game.

Your argument is weaker than mine so far...

Really? Thursday nights? There was exactly one Thursday night in each 07 and 08 where footy was played. Brisbane played in the 07 one, and the season opener was the only one in 2008.

Furthermore, I said Saturday nights and Brisbane played in their fair share. Nevertheless, time slots of certain teams is extremely slim pickings and genuinely one of the worst cop-outs in an All-Australian discussion I've seen.

 

[M Malice]

IIRC the Lions played very few if any Friday night games from 2001-2004.

FWIW I think Pendlebury is a champion and right up there with Black as far as ability is concerned, I voted Black but admit to a Lions bias.

 

[Dom PC]

Really? Thursday nights? There was exactly one Thursday night in each 07 and 08 where footy was played. Brisbane played in the 07 one, and the season opener was the only one in 2008.

Furthermore, I said Saturday nights and Brisbane played in their fair share. Nevertheless, time slots of certain teams is extremely slim pickings and genuinely one of the worst cop-outs in an All-Australian discussion I've seen.

I guess we will just have to disagree if you are comparing Thursday and Friday night time slots with Saturday night games.

Simon won his first AA selection as a 22 year old (same age as Pendles) and finished second in the Brownlow as a 29 year old and finished 2nd in our B&F as a 30 year old (behind a dominant J.Brown) in a finals team and then finished 2nd in our club B&F as a 31 year old.

So from the age of 22 to 31, Simon was performing at an extremely high level. I'd argue the longevity of high performances argument doesn't really work comparing these two.

Then you have things like Simon having two best and fairest awards in premiership years in arguably the greatest team ever, over arguably one of the greatest midfielders ever (Voss) who won two MVP's over those premiership years. I actually think it's a reasonable claim to make that Pendles didn't quite reach the same peak as Black did.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I guess we will just have to disagree if you are comparing Thursday and Friday night time slots with Saturday night games.

Simon won his first AA selection as a 22 year old (same age as Pendles) and finished second in the Brownlow as a 29 year old and finished 2nd in our B&F as a 30 year old (behind a dominant J.Brown) in a finals team and then finished 2nd in our club B&F as a 31 year old.

So from the age of 22 to 31, Simon was performing at an extremely high level. I'd argue the longevity of high performances argument doesn't really work comparing these two.

Then you have things like Simon having two best and fairest awards in premiership years in arguably the greatest team ever, over arguably one of the greatest midfielders ever (Voss) who won two MVP's over those premiership years. I actually think it's a reasonable claim to make that Pendles didn't quite reach the same peak as Black did.

Case closed/

 

[adammania9]

So Black had arguably a better peak (Pendles himself was the best player in the league in 2011, and won the B&F in a side that won a flag and like 45 games out of 50). Pendles put together a more consistently higher body of work and also did it for longer. If Pendles played for another club, there would be no debate. Black was undoubtedly a champion player, but to the dismay of many, he was not the greatest thing to ever hit the sport.

 

[Dom PC]

So Black had arguably a better peak (Pendles himself was the best player in the league in 2011, and won the B&F in a side that won a flag and like 45 games out of 50). Pendles put together a more consistently higher body of work and also did it for longer. If Pendles played for another club, there would be no debate. Black was undoubtedly a champion player, but to the dismay of many, he was not the greatest thing to ever hit the sport.

Dane Swan won the 2010 B&F and I would agree Pendles was one of the best players in the league in 2011, but not the best (Judd was MVP and Dane Swan won the Brownlow that year).

Not sure anyone is saying Black was the greatest thing to ever hit the sport? I'm not sure what that's got to do with a Black vs Pendles discussion...

 

[adammania9]

Dane Swan won the 2010 B&F and I would agree Pendles was one of the best players in the league in 2011, but not the best (Judd was MVP and Dane Swan won the Brownlow that year).

Not sure anyone is saying Black was the greatest thing to ever hit the sport? I'm not sure what that's got to do with a Black vs Pendles discussion...

So what difference does it make if Black was the best player in the league for a single year at his peak, and Pendles was 2nd or 3rd at his peak? It doesn’t really change much. The only player stopping Pendles from topping the lot was Ablett, and there was no mid as great as Ablett in the early 2000’s when Black was at his peak. Black and Pendlebury’s peaks are comparable, neither has the upper hand on the other.

 

[lionshine]

Black like every Brisbane player from that side seems to get better and better with each day following retirement. No doubt he was a gun player and in a champion team, but he wasn’t as good as he’s so often made out to have been. Remarkably good ball user out of the middle and he didn’t make mistakes, but he didn’t have the volume that Pendles has always had.

Pendlebury plays at a higher level more consistently. Black basically never ever played a bad game, but he didn’t as frequently play at the high level that Pendlebury has for so long. If he did, he’d have won more than 3 AA jumpers, and at least one in a year where he wasn’t surrounded by premiership players. His last jacket came in 03 at 24 years old, Pendlebury made his sixth last year at 31 and so far in 2020 has still not let down.

Black was a gun but Pendles has gone past him, however Collingwood players lose every poll so I’m not surprised at the early numbers. Pendlebury would lose a poll to Daniel Kerr.

As has already been mentioned, Black was runner-up in the Brownlow in consecutive years in 2007 and 2008 and yet didn't make the AA team in those years. Should have made the AA team more than 3 times and would have done so had he been playing for a big Vic club imo.

 

[adammania9]

As has already been mentioned, Black was runner-up in the Brownlow in consecutive years in 2007 and 2008 and yet didn't make the AA team in those years. Should have made the AA team more than 3 times and would have done so had he been playing for a big Vic club imo.

I could argue that the failure to make the AA teams in those years suggests that those Brownlow finishes flattered his output. It's one award vs another really; they're both flawed and always have been.

 

[juss]

Black, comfortably.

It wouldn't be comfortably imo, that suggests a significant gap. There's not a lot in it, both champions and Pendles still has a little to go.

 

[WCEbrody]

Black, but have loved watching Pendlebury play.. has cut West Coast up plenty of times.

 

[bungalow_bill]

It wouldn't be comfortably imo, that suggests a significant gap. There's not a lot in it, both champions and Pendles still has a little to go.

You're probably right but the poll does reflect that opinion

 

[juss]

You're probably right but the poll does reflect that opinion

The poll reflects a percentage that think hes better, not necessarily the magnitude. I think longevity of performance is underrated, Pendles has certainly ticked that mark and still going playing great footy and getting AAs at his age. Black didn't win a B&F past 2006 or an AA beyond 04, yet played until 2013. Thats gotta be a tick to Pendles with what he's continued to produce late his career.

 

[bungalow_bill]

The poll reflects a percentage that think hes better, not necessarily the magnitude. I think longevity of performance is underrated, Pendles has certainly ticked that mark and still going playing great footy and getting AAs at his age. Black didn't win a B&F past 2006 or an AA beyond 04, yet played until 2013. Thats gotta be a tick to Pendles with what he's continued to produce late his career.

Two different angles- best player at their peak V played at a high level for longer. Black the former Pendles the later.