Religion So, How do Atheists explain miracles?

[John]

Perhaps they sold really their souls to the devil and in 200 years time an earthquake will kill ten's of thousands of their countrymen .

 

[likka]

We don't understand God, if we did he wouldn't be God.

LOL, like you also don't understand differential calculus?

 

[placebo]

Firstly, just to clarify this in order for a miracle to be declared within the Catholic Church it has to go through for some very serious testing. The reason it took so long for Mary to become a saint, is testament to how hard the system is as opposed to her lack of intervention. There are literally records of 1000's miracles attributed to Mary, but only 2 have been proved. Read all about the process here , for this miracle attributed to Mary MacKillop at least 2 doctors invovled with the case would have to have admitted it was a miracle and had no scientific explaination.

No scientific explanation does not equal 'miracle'.

 

[ReservoirDog]

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[Inferno]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2789958.htm

How do Atheists explain Miracles?

How was the woman who was diagnosed with inoperable cancer saved, even leaving doctors stumped?

Do they acknowledge the power of prayer, that science can't explain everything?

I've heard of other cases where people's illnesses have just dissapeared: cancer, HIV, athritis.

Are there any Atheists that believe in miracles? Or do you simply put it all down to random chance like you always do?

So true and totally correct. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his noodly appendage for saving this one woman in a rich country while letting several tens of thousands die of starvation around the world from preventable diseases in poorer countries every single day

No but seriously, just because there is no immediate or apparent answer based on the few details we have you just jump to a illogical conclusion. Just because someone can do a card trick doesn't mean there's magic. Besides, 'miracles' have been documented all throughout history with virtually every faith that has existed, so I suppose this proves virtually every faith that has ever existed as true. No wait that can't be right, just the one you happen to believe in obviously, my bad.

 

[cancat]

When we pray for something we absorb those thoughts in our subconscious mind. Our subconscious minds are working 24/7 to heal and repair our bodies. There are psychological factors to many ailments which may be resolved by positive mental imagery. Prayers by religious people will be directed to their god so if a healing occurs after prayer then it will be attributed to god and considered miraculous. But atheists can take advantage of contemplative visualisation techniques also - not only in healing but in any aspect of life.

 

[bit_pattern]

^^ Did you read the link on confirmation bias?

 

[HarryTiger]

Touch the cloth you live, don't touch the cloth you die.

Too bad if you had cancer and gave all your money and time to a 3rd world orphanage instead of touching the magic cloth, kapow.

I want nothing to do with your absurd God.

 

[cancat]

^^ Did you read the link on confirmation bias?

Yeah. If I am guilty of it then I don't care. I choose to believe something that is 'enabling' to myself and others rather than search for 'the truth'.

Could your drug induced trances fall into the same category?

 

[medusala]

Why would anyone think everything is explainable and that no opportunity to further our understanding of the world exists?

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

Yeah. If I am guilty of it then I don't care. I choose to believe something that is 'enabling' to myself and others rather than search for 'the truth'.

Could your drug induced trances fall into the same category?

So faith is a choice?
Interesting.
I always thought that it was a calling, or a feeling or even an internal "knowing"
BTW I'm straight and haven't had a drug induced trance for decades. So explain it for me.
Am I simply searching for truth or not yet recovered from my drug taking days?

 

[cancat]

So faith is a choice?
Interesting.
I always thought that it was a calling, or a feeling or even an internal "knowing"
BTW I'm straight and haven't had a drug induced trance for decades. So explain it for me.
Am I simply searching for truth or not yet recovered from my drug taking days?

I am an intuitive person but I don't feel any of those things. I don't get the religious concept of faith.

I just know what works for me. Call it prayer (not to god), call it positive mental imagery. So yes I choose to believe certain things. And if someone came along and said that's a load of tosh and here's why then I might choose not to listen.

So in a way, I could be guilty of the same illogical beliefs that religious people are. But I'm coming from a different angle.

Or maybe I could be onto something

The drug reference was meant for Bitpattern and his mention of confirmation bias. He had claimed some extraordinary experiences on certain substances but maybe the revelations were as a result of the same mental process to find something we are looking for.

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

I am an intuitive person but I don't feel any of those things. I don't get the religious concept of faith.

I just know what works for me. Call it prayer (not to god), call it positive mental imagery. So yes I choose to believe certain things. And if someone came along and said that's a load of tosh and here's why then I might choose not to listen.

So in a way, I could be guilty of the same illogical beliefs that religious people are. But I'm coming from a different angle.

Or maybe I could be onto something

The drug reference was meant for Bitpattern and his mention of confirmation bias. He had claimed some extraordinary experiences on certain substances but maybe the revelations were as a result of the same mental process to find something we are looking for.

Fair enough. And thanks.
I am on the record here saying that the whole concept of faith does my head in.
However, I am interested in different perceptions of the belief process.

 

[EagleMan87]

When we pray for something we absorb those thoughts in our subconscious mind. Our subconscious minds are working 24/7 to heal and repair our bodies. There are psychological factors to many ailments which may be resolved by positive mental imagery. Prayers by religious people will be directed to their god so if a healing occurs after prayer then it will be attributed to god and considered miraculous. But atheists can take advantage of contemplative visualisation techniques also - not only in healing but in any aspect of life.

There was recently a study showing that the whole 'positive mindset = cure' theory is bullshit. In other words, it comes down to your immune system, the illness and luck.

 

[lions_den]

Fun fact: Assuming Kev lives til 80 years of age and goes to church once a week, he would have wasted 11.39 years (over 4100 days) of his life.

 

[linga_is_no1]

Fun fact: Assuming Kev lives til 80 years of age and goes to church once a week, he would have wasted 11.39 years (over 4100 days) of his life.

I know how dare he try to better himself by applying some principles and morals to his life, i mean what a nerve!

 

[bunsen burner]

Yeah. If I am guilty of it then I don't care. I choose to believe something that is 'enabling' to myself and others rather than search for 'the truth'.

Could your drug induced trances fall into the same category?

Herein lies the problem with the religious. From what I can tell you aren't god fearing so this isn't mostly directed at you.

The religious need a crux. The either need to have an answer to the unknown or they have guilt that is inbuilt. To cope with this they need to believe the farcial myths that religions propogate. And knowing that they are doing this is not an option, it won't satisfy the gap. Admitting to themselves that they are weak and need to believe in a fairytale to enable them to mentally function properly just isn't an option.

The result of this two things, a) Confirmation bias as mentioned earlier in the thread. God fearers will go to extraordinary lengths to justify the ridiculous. They have to. They will come out with crap like "There is no proof Julius Caesar existed either" or "I have proof, I just know", and b) Now that they have totally convinced themselves that what they believe is true, coupled with the non option of accepting that it is just they who need a crutch, they believe their belief not to be personal preference but rather the actual truth across the board. This is why these ****wits place themselves on a superior moral standing to anyone else, spruik their religion at all opportunity, try to recruit others, and insist that everyone else live by their moral code.

And they wonder why in recent times so many are overt in ridiculing them.

 

[bunsen burner]

I know how dare he try to better himself by applying some principles and morals to his life, i mean what a nerve!

1. Why does he need to go to church to do this? Is he too weak to determine his own moral compass?
2. Why do most religions try to recruit people? Why do they believe what works for them individually must work for everyone else? Could perhaps god-fearers have a mental defect? Could it be you god-fearers need relgion and the rest of us don't? If religion works for you why can't you just be satisfied with that and stfu?

 

[bunsen burner]

I am a christian. I believe in god. i absolutely have no doubt god exists, the writings of the bible are the word of god, and they way in which i interpret it are correct. Those other people who believe in other religions are wrong. It is my god that is real so those other believers must be wrong.

In your words, can you offer an explanation as to why you believe in God and we don't. Why has god shown himself to you and not us?

 

[Rustin Cohle]

"The God Delusion."

 

[cancat]

There was recently a study showing that the whole 'positive mindset = cure' theory is bullshit. In other words, it comes down to your immune system, the illness and luck.

Sauce?

I did see a study that was related to was about outcomes of a certain kind of cancer. It doesn't mean there is nothing in it at all. For example, stress manifests itself in the body in many ways. Alieviate the stress and you would expect some physical improvement.

 

[cancat]

Herein lies the problem with the religious. From what I can tell you aren't god fearing so this isn't mostly directed at you.

I just meant that you can 'pray' for other people. I know it sounds whacked and maybe it is conformation bias but good things have been happening for people around me lately.

I'm not religious and would not foist my beliefs on anyone else.

 

[mattys123]

I am an Atheist, I admit it, but I don't denounce religion like most atheists do, and the form that some religion takes in helping some people recover from illnesses is one of the most positive things about religion.

But to call then "miracles" is just placing a label for labels sake.

What "miracles" are is simple the exception to the rule.

For every case of people dying of a disease that has been diagnosed as terminal, there are always going to be a few cases of people who have recovered for various reasons from that "terminal" disease

It is not a miracle, as defined by the religion organisations, but it is simply dumb luck in most cases, or a case of doing everything you possibly could to cure yourself.

Religion has a great place in some peoples lives in that it gives them hope and support, and in some cases that is all people need to have the "belief" that they can survive a terminal disease, and believe me, that is half the battle.

I have had 2 friends/family members who through positive thinking and actually approaching their treatment in a completely natural form (no chemo) have still managed to survive what was diagnosed as "terminal diseases". These weren't miracles, they were simply positive thinking mixed with getting their bodies as fit and chemical free as humanly possible, and using a natural method of treatment.

Now, if either of these 2 people mentioned above had of stated that their diseases were cured/placed in remission because of their religious beliefs, they would probably be categorized as "miracles" by a large portion of religious people.

All I am trying to state here is that miracles as the church defines them do exist, but they are not miracles, they are simply exceptions to the rule of that particular case in point.

That is how this atheist would describe "miracles" as such.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

How would the Church react if an atheist was cured of cancer for unexplained reasons? Would that also be hailed as a miracle, even if that person never once prayed to the Lord for help? It seems like the Church only recognizes these miracles if prayer is involved. I mean, surely a miracle is a miracle regardless of who is the recipient.

 

[TheBloods]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2789958.htm

How do Atheists explain Miracles?

How was the woman who was diagnosed with inoperable cancer saved, even leaving doctors stumped?http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2789958.htm

Do they acknowledge the power of prayer, that science can't explain everything?

I've heard of other cases where people's illnesses have just dissapeared: cancer, HIV, athritis.

Are there any Atheists that believe in miracles? Or do you simply put it all down to random chance like you always do?

Of course it's random chance. How do the religious explain why God does occasional miracles but leaves the overwhelming majority of disease uncured and disaster unstopped?