So where will we improve?

[tinman]

So in 2002 we made the prelim, and but for injury may have made it further. This year we didn't get as far.....and although we had some injuries in the minor round had almost a full squad for the finals.

So if we are going to take the next step, where will our improvement come from? I look at other squads with a lot of talent coming through..........and I can tell you I am concerned that we will struggle to improve.

I hope like hell I'm wrong cos I'd love us to win the flag in 2004.

 

[jc67]

They might not be just saying COMMITMENT this year.
They might just mean it!

 

[naughty monkey]

we won't

 

[napsyd]

I agree with naughty monkey.

However, if we play our best football (that is, not the tripe we dished up from Round 20 onwards in 2003) we can give the flag a shake.

We are an outside chance IMO. We require certain cards to fall our way to win the flag.

 

[Mong]

We will struggle to improve but we won't go down as much as many are suggesting.

If we want to look at one area to improve try the midfield. Only Ricciuto and Burton (when not injured) played to or above their usual standard. The list of midfielders who had a disappointing season is long.

McLeod
Goodwin
Bode
Ladhams
Stenglein

If these guys play better it helps the guys around them.

And then there's the forward line.

Welsh did nothing all year due to injury. Stevens wasn't much better.

There's plenty of areas we can and will improve.


****

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by napsyd
I agree with naughty monkey.

However, if we play our best football (that is, not the tripe we dished up from Round 20 onwards in 2003) we can give the flag a shake.

We are an outside chance IMO. We require certain cards to fall our way to win the flag.

Will be like a lot of clubs next year in that injuries & availability of key players will have a big say in where we finish but if the cards do fall face up & the footy gods smile down on the AFC for most of the year then i believe we have just as much chance as anyone of improving on last years performance.

If we don't come away with the flag next year then be prepared for a couple of lean years (for all the obvious reasons) even though i still think we will challenge for the 8 realistically our chance for a 3rd flag will have to wait for a little while.

 

[Dogga]

I am dreaming here, but 20 games each from Carey, M Stevens, Burton and Welsh (impossible I know) will see us in the top 4 at the end of round 22.

Improved seasons from Goodwin, McLeod and Bode will give those guys mentioned above ample opportunity to kick winning scores.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Last season really was the last roll of the dice....injuries really prevented us from reaching our full potential. Even if we have a fantastic run with injuries this year I cant see us knocking off faster younger and fitter sides such as Collingwood and tougher harder and more talented sides like Brisbane in the finals. Love to be proven wrong.

 

[RaDaR ReiLLy]

Originally posted by Dogga
I am dreaming here, but 20 games each from Carey, M Stevens, Burton and Welsh (impossible I know) will see us in the top 4 at the end of round 22.

Improved seasons from Goodwin, McLeod and Bode will give those guys mentioned above ample opportunity to kick winning scores.

Haha!! that ones just funny!!

he will get injured again at some point in the season...i just bl0ody hope its not OP again

 

[tribey]

If we get wholesale improvements and 18-22 games from the likes of Welsh, Goodwin, Carey, McLeod, Stevens, Bode and Hart we'll be in the mix again.

But cripes... Collingwood, Brisbane and Port Adelaide still look a class above us and then there's the inevitable improvement that will come from Fremantle, West Coast, North Melbourne, Hawthorn and St. Kilda.

This season will be bloody tough - remembering our nightmare draw in the first 12 or so rounds - if we're not out of the blocks form-wise and fitness-wise from day one.

 

[ant]

As previously outlined, there are numerous areas of improvement possible for next year. In addition to the points already mentioned, there's the fact many are tipping us for a slide, we'll not be expected to seriously contend for the flag, and that may just fire us up next season. Plenty have something to prove and we play well with the underdog tag.

But unless Ayresy takes a summer crash course, Coaching for Dummies 101, and passes with flying colours, we won't be a realistic premiership threat.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by ant
Plenty have something to prove and we play well with the underdog tag.

But unless Ayresy takes a summer crash course, Coaching for Dummies 101, and passes with flying colours, we won't be a realistic premiership threat.

I agree with this. Our game plan of going out wide and wasting the ball has got to go. The first quarter of the game against North at AAMI was a classic example. First 15 mins we ran hard and fast down the middle of the ground, kicked goals and looked great. Last 15 mins started going wide and we got stuck playing slow stop start footy and the Roos loved it.

There are also plenty of players who have something to prove - especially in finals!

The club has started to address one problem area - the physical size and strength of our young blokes

http://afc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=126561

 

[lozstar]

Originally posted by ant
But unless Ayresy takes a summer crash course, Coaching for Dummies 101, and passes with flying colours, we won't be a realistic premiership threat.

We can always hope Santa will be nice this year

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by tinman
So in 2002 we made the prelim, and but for injury may have made it further. This year we didn't get as far.....and although we had some injuries in the minor round had almost a full squad for the finals.

So if we are going to take the next step, where will our improvement come from? I look at other squads with a lot of talent coming through..........and I can tell you I am concerned that we will struggle to improve.

I hope like hell I'm wrong cos I'd love us to win the flag in 2004.

The negativity posted so far defies belief.

We struggled to field a forward line nearly all year thanks to injury, but were still sitting 2nd at the end of round 19.

Then came the flu, with up to 12 players having it at that time. Not a cold, but the dreaded variety that started off with vomiting and diorrhea, before exploding into a strength sapping debilitating flu. I had the same thing and I missed work for 9 days, and I sit in an office, not playing footy.

The Crows caught this flu in the 6 day period between playing the Eagles in Perth and the travelling to Melbourne to play the Pies. Naturally they ran out of gas against Collingwood.

Ayres showed no appreciation of the toll the flu was taking on his players and flattened them by training the arse of them before the Kangaroos game - history shows how smart that was. We had no sparkle or life at all. We were respectable against Port and the Eagles before losing by slightly less than the mandatory margin in Brisbane.

In this latter part of the season we were also playing forwards such as Welsh and Stevens who were completely underdone and of little value overall.

In a nutshell, 2003 can be summed up by injury, illness, and some players going backwards.

The Improvement

A reasonable run with injury alone will see a significant improvement. Our defence was the 2nd best in the comp, but we had a different forward structure nearly every week.

The midfield. As **** pointed out, who would have predicted the poor seasons of

McLeod
Goodwin
Bode
Ladhams
Stenglein

after 2002. I expect all of these guys to step up at least back to their 2002 form. Shirley will improve further as will Reilly and Schuback, and possibly Doughty.

Surely one of Scott Stevens, Hentschel, Bock or Rutten will come on this year and make their mark, with my money on Stevens and Hentschel.

If, and I qualify it with IF

Ayres insists that we play down the centre spine and not the outer wing all day every game, then we will be a top 4 chance again in 2004, with the chance that goes with that of winning the flag.

I genuinely believe that there are a multitude of areas to improve in, and with the blessing not the curse of the footy gods, we will be a top 4 team again in 2004

 

[Stiffy_18]

I can't believe I am saying this but I agree with ant

For as long as we persist with this crap of going wide to the wings and bombing it high into the forward line we got no chance in hell of playing any better.

In 2003 we had a rotten run with injuries in the first half of the season and I don't care how many "experts" say we were at full strength, a fair few of those players were seriously under done. I never thought I would say this but Mark Stevens sucked and understandably so.

Carey will not play more than 15 games next year. He will struggle for fitness again but he should be a bit more consistent with his form.

Stevens should be back for a full year. As **** said apart from Roo and Burton our midfielders were well below par. Johncock joinging the midfield rotation should some what offset the loss of Bicks.

Hopefully 2-3 of our youngsters step up to the plate (Reilly, Schuback and Hentschel) and give us a bit more depth.

A lot of ifs but its possible. One thing is for certain we must start the season like a house on fire and with minimal injury list. If we don't, it could be all over before it starts. Fat lady could be starting her tune as early as round 8.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I can't believe I am saying this but I agree with ant

Stiffy, it was only a matter of time.....eventually it was going to happen

And Loz, I'm not waiting for Santa, I'm giving Ayresy that pressie first hand, he'll love it I think.....he will learn so much, stuff he's never thought of before, best gift Gary will ever get in his life

 

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by Jerome
I agree with this. Our game plan of going out wide and wasting the ball has got to go.

Ah!
But does anyone remember why Ayres changed the game plan?
Remember how teams flooded the half back line, ala Collingwood, Brisbane, Port, Sydney and in the end even the Roos?

The real problem was the skill level in delivering into the forward line. No such thing as a bad game plan, only bad execution.

Who wants to put money on that improving?
Not me...
The same good teams will beat us the same way they always have. The difference will be that the teams around us will start to beat us this way as well.

Fwiw, i think we will be 6-10.

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by napsyd
I agree with naughty monkey.

However, if we play our best football (that is, not the tripe we dished up from Round 20 onwards in 2003) we can give the flag a shake.

We are an outside chance IMO. We require certain cards to fall our way to win the flag.

Agree I think the AFC thought the GF was in Rnd 19

We have to win the close games, we have to deliver the ball better to our forwards and we HAVE to play down the corridor none of this playing down the flanks, it has been proven this year it doesnt work and if we continue with that game plan next year................

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

There are good reasons to think that we can improve.

1. We were decimated by injury to our forwards in 2003. If we get more use out of Stevo, Welsh, Carey, etc we will have more firepower to aim at. Also, have added KPP depth with S Stevens & perhaps 1 of the youngsters may put their hand up. Hopefully a better KPP structure will straighten us up to go more direct.

2. Our midfield was carried last year by way too few in 2003. Surely Goody & Macca will have better seasons, as will some of the 2nd tier players who dropped away on their 2002 form. Also, Reilly could be the wildcard, as I reckon 2004 must be his breakthrough year. Only negative is that we have lost Bicks, but we have got more than enough improvement in our other players to offset his loss.

I will be disappointed if we didn't finish top-4 (given a reasonable run with injuries) at the end of the minor round & have a real crack at the finals.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
I will be disappointed if we didn't finish top-4 (given a reasonable run with injuries) at the end of the minor round & have a real crack at the finals.

In all honesty, with our well documented awful first half of the year draw and the rest of the league's respective strength I reckon top-4 would be a bloody miracle.

IMO Brisbane, Port Adelaide and Collingwood are untouchable in the top three spots - I reckon Hawthorn (if they can keep their list fit - which is exactly what we're saying) will round out the top four.

Spots 5th-8th: Throw a blanket over Sydney, Fremantle, Essendon, North Melbourne, West Coast, Richmond, St. Kilda and Adelaide.

I reckon naughty monkey is on the money when he says 6th-10th. If people reckon last year was even, we ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
The difference will be that the teams around us will start to beat us this way as well.

Agreed. It was already starting to happen last year, the home games against Sydney and the Roos were good examples of sides who had worked us out.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by dyertribe
In all honesty, with our well documented awful first half of the year draw and the rest of the league's respective strength I reckon top-4 would be a bloody miracle.

IMO Brisbane, Port Adelaide and Collingwood are untouchable in the top three spots - I reckon Hawthorn (if they can keep their list fit - which is exactly what we're saying) will round out the top four.

Spots 5th-8th: Throw a blanket over Sydney, Fremantle, Essendon, North Melbourne, West Coast, Richmond, St. Kilda and Adelaide.

I reckon naughty monkey is on the money when he says 6th-10th. If people reckon last year was even, we ain't seen nothing yet.

Using the draw as excuse is pathetic IMO. If you are good enough, you can beat the odds. If sides finished based on their draw, Essendon & Collingwood would be top-2 most years!

The odds are that not all of Lions, Power & Pies will finsish in the top-4 & that 1 will probably slide. I agree the Hawks shoudl have a good year, but I have said that in the past & they have been disappointing.

I have faith that we still have a very talented squad that for various reasons did not play to it's full potential in 2003. If it does in 2004, we will be around the mark.

 

[ok.crows]

My 2 cents-

Most of these posts on this thread I feel are unneccesarily negative.

The one criticism I do agree with is that the Crows must stop going wide to the flanks all the time.

In 2003 the forward line was unsettled all year and we got next to nothing out of Stevens & Welsh. The Crows had a poor stretch after round 19 but they were allright up until then, and in the end hey, we lost to the Premiers at the Gabba by a lower margin that the GF runners-up did in Melbourne.

As for improvement - well the Crows haven't lost anything significant.

I think Reilly is ready to come on next year, and with luck one of Rutten or Hentschell, and possibly Schuback as well, can make a position for themselves in the side.

Maybe Schuback can displace Burns, and add some pace to the forward lines.

Maybe Reilly can take up where Johnson left off.

Maybe McLeod, Goodwin & Stenglein will pull their fingers out.

Maybe Burton can pull out of his bag of tricks more than just three or four 35+ possession games on the wing. If he can do it 4 times, why not 14 times ?

Maybe Carey won't go attacking point posts & coming off second best.

Maybe Stevens & Welsh will manage more games & end up with 40+ goals each for the year next year, as they are proven well capable of.

..... Now that is a hell of a lot of maybes. Yes, I know.

But think of it this way ... if there are such a lot of things that could go better & make a huge difference to the side next year, then even if just a few of them come off there will be improvement. !!

 

[napsyd]

This all depends on what you mean by improvement.

If we had a complete injury free 2004 with all of our players playing at their optimum then would be improve our overall results? Of course! But is this "improvement" as such?

I think our team dynamics will be very similar to last year.

The main changes are:

* Bicks has retired.

* Reilly, plus one or two others should cement places and make valuable contributions.

* Our "stars" are another year older.

So would our optimum 2003 team win or lose against our optimum 2004 team?

The way I see it at the moment, Bicks has big boots that will be real hard to fill and that might just give our 2003 best a small advantage over our 2004 best. The rest of the changes are really neither here nor there.

Hence my conclusion that we won't "improve" as such. There is nothing negative about it really. "Improvement" based on player X not getting injured, well, to my mind that is luck, not improvement.

 

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
...we have to deliver the ball better to our forwards and we HAVE to play down the corridor none of this playing down the flanks, it has been proven this year it doesnt work and if we continue with that game plan next year................

Playing down the corridor is exactly what teams that flood the half back line want. That is why there was a deliberate change in the game plan from round 20 onwards.

As Brisbane and Port have shown time and again, they way to beat the flood is DONT kick to a contest (i.e down the corridor). You play wide to spread the defence to create the space that a quick leading forward or a hard running midfielder can use.

You need forwards who move (i.e lead) lots and the ball carrier to constantly move the ball and switch the play form side to side (Kenny M's biggest flaw). This also helps to create the space for the forwards. The longer you hang onto the ball the worse of you are. A defending team loves nothing more than time to reposition itself.

It requires very good skills to work because it means handling the ball a lot and you also need pinpoint disposal because of the confined space available inside 50.
The game plan itself will work against a flood, but you need a far better drilled and skilled squad than we have to do it.