Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?
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I personally don't think we'll go very far under Voss, but I also don't want him sacked (this year at least).
1. Sacking a coach every 2 years will break this club. A 5th head coach since 2015 would be terrible for the playing group.
2. Which coach of quality is actually available right now?
3. Even if someone good was available, why would they ever want to come to Carlton? A club with an overrated list, you would instantly be under significant pressure and a club culture of sacking coaches every 2 years.
We simply have to persevere with Voss.
1. Sacking a coach every 2 years will break this club. A 5th head coach since 2015 would be terrible for the playing group.
2. Which coach of quality is actually available right now?
3. Even if someone good was available, why would they ever want to come to Carlton? A club with an overrated list, you would instantly be under significant pressure and a club culture of sacking coaches every 2 years.
We simply have to persevere with Voss.
I've said in the other threads I haven't been on team sakc but if we lose our next two that will be 9 losses from 10 games (this is a real possibility against * and Gold Coast).
At that point it starts to become an untenable position considering where we finished at the end of last season and the inevitable scrutiny from the wider footy public
I hope it doesn't come to that and we can grind out the year around the 8-10 win mark. That should buy him another pre-season and half of 2024 to turn it around.
At that point it starts to become an untenable position considering where we finished at the end of last season and the inevitable scrutiny from the wider footy public
I hope it doesn't come to that and we can grind out the year around the 8-10 win mark. That should buy him another pre-season and half of 2024 to turn it around.
I've got no idea about assistant coaches so couldn't answer. I can say I want a flexible coach that will understand when somethings not working. I want him to reward form in the reserves with senior time. I also want him to drop players that consistently shirk contests. He should also have some tactical nous.
I'm in the sack voss camp because he's shown none of the above. It's so hard to believe this is the captain of Brisbane, one if the toughest to play the game. Would love him to succeed but if he doesn't start doing some of the above, he won't be here long enough to get the chance. Whether you agree or not and whether it's the right call or not, we're carlton so it will happen.
I'm in the sack voss camp because he's shown none of the above. It's so hard to believe this is the captain of Brisbane, one if the toughest to play the game. Would love him to succeed but if he doesn't start doing some of the above, he won't be here long enough to get the chance. Whether you agree or not and whether it's the right call or not, we're carlton so it will happen.
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Mate I hear what you're saying, but this is where we are really bad as a football club. As soon as things start to go pear shaped we sack the coach. We need to show some solidarity, back the people we have (aka Richmond in 2016) and become the successful CFC we all know and love.
This thread should be retitled "So who do you want as Senior assistant?"
In an ideal world we win the next three games (which we really ******* should be doing) and the chatter pretty much goes away for the year. There may even be the "not mathematically out of it yet" hope start to come back to the joint.
I agree we need to show solidarity and stick to our guns on a coaching appointment but if we don't find a win in the next two or three weeks there may not be enough solidarity in the world to save him.
The nuffs will come for him... the journos, the footy classifieds, the SENs etc. will smell blood in the water.
If we've lost 9 from 10 or 10 from 11 by that point, I can't even say they would be wrong wanting a scalp. That's simply not acceptable for a team with the reigning Brownlow and back to back Coleman Medalists plus a few other All Australian caliber players.
The Old Dark Navy's
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Will any half decent assistant coaches come here to support Voss? I can't see it happening.
I said before the pies game he’d need to win at least 1 game before the bye and try to change the game plan and how we play.
If we do lose our next 2, and be survives the following game after the bye v Hawthorn could seal his fate. We simply don’t look like we can beat anyone at all aside from the wafl eagles.
We have lost each of our games over the past 2 months in almost identical ways, we still play the same, which is terrible to watch and ineffective. It’s joyless, soulless football.
Losing 9 out of 10 games with the talent he has at his disposal would not be acceptable and his job would be untenable at that point. We should at least be in the mix of sides to make the 8, not bottom 3.
So what after Voss is flicked? I’d say give Hansen rest of the season and try out a few things, and give cook and co some time to restructure the footy department.
If we do lose our next 2, and be survives the following game after the bye v Hawthorn could seal his fate. We simply don’t look like we can beat anyone at all aside from the wafl eagles.
We have lost each of our games over the past 2 months in almost identical ways, we still play the same, which is terrible to watch and ineffective. It’s joyless, soulless football.
Losing 9 out of 10 games with the talent he has at his disposal would not be acceptable and his job would be untenable at that point. We should at least be in the mix of sides to make the 8, not bottom 3.
So what after Voss is flicked? I’d say give Hansen rest of the season and try out a few things, and give cook and co some time to restructure the footy department.
RPCB
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When our “best” players can’t kick straight to an unmarked teammate 15 metres away, it’s not the head coach (Voss is an awful coach but the players have to take responsibility too). It happened a handful of times last night to suggest this is a very s**t skilled side.
Wickzki
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I've lost faith in Voss. I was expecting something different tonight and it was the same old garbage that isn't working. Absolutely much of it is on the players but even when we're not committing skill errors the gameplan just isn't there to position us to win.
Teams with a good gameplan can play like dog s**t and either eek out wins or look much more competent thqn what we do. It's what they can fall back on and know it'll hold them in good stead.
Therefore, in my opinion, it's both the list and the gameplan. List doesn't suit modern football- we've gone over this in every other thread a thousand times by now - but the gameplan doesn't either and the gameplan doesn't suit the list either.
Think of a triangle. You have modern footy at the top pointy end and on the left you have Voss and his gameplan and on the right you have the list. The bottom sides are about an equal length from the top but they're poles apart.
Voss just hasn't adjusted to the new rules and how it has dramatically shifted midfield play and both sides of the ball.
In the two years prior to this one he had tremendous success in taking absolute bulls to the top of their games. He was a huge reason for why Cripps and Wines won the Brownlow medal.
If we look over at Port this year you'll notice something. Wines isn't the dominant midfielder that he was in the past. He's still very, very good but the game is moving away from his (and Cripps) skillset. Their list management has been outstanding and they have two young electric players who are the personification of the modern game - Zak Butters and Connor Rozee. They've assumed the top of the pops in their midfield this year while we have nothing like that in our midfield.
Our list management is a huge issue as it significantly impacts the ability of the coach to do his job. And Voss is working at a significant disadvantage out of the gate because of it. But he needs to make it work and he hasn't been able to do it.
We were fantastic in the first half of last year as coaches learned the new rules and implemented the systems necessary to win with them. However, as teams have now fully adjusted we're now seeing how dreadfully Ill equipped we are to combat them.
We are four solid players from where we need to jbe. We need a ruck-KPF to spell with TDK. We need a dynamic midfielder (Butters/Rozee) and we need forward flankers.
Vossy has two games to turn it around. If we lose both the Bombers and Suns games I believe he will be canned at the bye.
But the truth is that the solution isn't on the list nor is it available in other coaches.
It's not Austin's fault as the damage was done prior. But he is the man that has to fix it as the only one who can is the list manager.
--..
Why two weeks?
If we lose the next two games Carlton will set a new record that the media will play up and show no mercy on. We will break the consecutive loses record after a 100-poiint wjn.
No coach can survive that
Teams with a good gameplan can play like dog s**t and either eek out wins or look much more competent thqn what we do. It's what they can fall back on and know it'll hold them in good stead.
Therefore, in my opinion, it's both the list and the gameplan. List doesn't suit modern football- we've gone over this in every other thread a thousand times by now - but the gameplan doesn't either and the gameplan doesn't suit the list either.
Think of a triangle. You have modern footy at the top pointy end and on the left you have Voss and his gameplan and on the right you have the list. The bottom sides are about an equal length from the top but they're poles apart.
Voss just hasn't adjusted to the new rules and how it has dramatically shifted midfield play and both sides of the ball.
In the two years prior to this one he had tremendous success in taking absolute bulls to the top of their games. He was a huge reason for why Cripps and Wines won the Brownlow medal.
If we look over at Port this year you'll notice something. Wines isn't the dominant midfielder that he was in the past. He's still very, very good but the game is moving away from his (and Cripps) skillset. Their list management has been outstanding and they have two young electric players who are the personification of the modern game - Zak Butters and Connor Rozee. They've assumed the top of the pops in their midfield this year while we have nothing like that in our midfield.
Our list management is a huge issue as it significantly impacts the ability of the coach to do his job. And Voss is working at a significant disadvantage out of the gate because of it. But he needs to make it work and he hasn't been able to do it.
We were fantastic in the first half of last year as coaches learned the new rules and implemented the systems necessary to win with them. However, as teams have now fully adjusted we're now seeing how dreadfully Ill equipped we are to combat them.
We are four solid players from where we need to jbe. We need a ruck-KPF to spell with TDK. We need a dynamic midfielder (Butters/Rozee) and we need forward flankers.
Vossy has two games to turn it around. If we lose both the Bombers and Suns games I believe he will be canned at the bye.
But the truth is that the solution isn't on the list nor is it available in other coaches.
It's not Austin's fault as the damage was done prior. But he is the man that has to fix it as the only one who can is the list manager.
--..
Why two weeks?
If we lose the next two games Carlton will set a new record that the media will play up and show no mercy on. We will break the consecutive loses record after a 100-poiint wjn.
No coach can survive that
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Sqotty from office works
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Will support any coach that can teach players to get the ball into the hands of the best credentialed kickers.
Sick of seeing slow build up plan ruined by leaving a bad kicker with ball and 35 players in front of him.
Don't care who it is, just get it done.
Sick of seeing slow build up plan ruined by leaving a bad kicker with ball and 35 players in front of him.
Don't care who it is, just get it done.
This issue is, is his coaching persona is miles off his playing persona. The uncompromising tough onfield leader that Voss was, isn't translating to his coaching style.
Whats more, he had a head coach gig at Brisbane and failed. Then, spent 10yrs as an assistant at Port under Hinkley. Port in that time only got as far as a Prelim.
I was never convinced he was the right choice. But I hoped his toughness would reflect on the team style of play... it hasn't materialised
Many more than just Voss need to go. Lloyd, the assistants for starters and the decision makers from 2021 that set this group up
In addition, its shown that we have a group of senior players that probably need to go as well. Some tough decisions need to be made.
Its possible that we will go further backwards to go forwards
Who is out there to replace Voss... great question. For me Hardwick isnt the answer.
Whoever it is, needs 5 years and no expectations on list performance, just carte blanche to build their on and off field team
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We had a chance to get a good coach and blew it. No point crying and debating this topic now. We need to see through the contract obligation and hope he can turn it around .
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WalshYouLegend
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Because he’s blue and he’s super good. Vote 1 Super Grover! He shows up. (And he’s less of a muppet than some of our players have been).
Prendercast had a good tweet - think outside the box & bring in an interim coach like soccer.
Not an existing assistant, just a qualified care taker to coach out the season.
Not an existing assistant, just a qualified care taker to coach out the season.
We have a good record of keeping assistants (see Barker)
Firstly, correct me if I'm wrong but next year would be the 8th year Voss has coached an AFL side and we are talking about bringing a senior mentor/ tactician in ? How about accepting that what he has done has been an absolute disaster. How about accepting that the gameplan that we have will beat one side in the competition- WC. I do not give a rats how many coach we have sacked, we cannot have a gameplan that allows us to kick 6 goals a week with a forward line containing the last 2 Coleman medal winnners. Cut our lossses with Voss. He clearly has no answers, we have not changed a thing about the way we play. I am beyond furious at what is going on, how can anyone possibly want to continue with this?
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T2B_
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Everyone is talking about it, commentators, fans, everyone can see it, I've been saying it for years, but there are still the "sack the coach" brigade who come out after a loss. ITS NOT THE COACH, TOO MANY OF THE PLAYERS CANT EXECUTE BASIC SKILLS.
I noted with interest Choco Williams talking to H in the warm up, he is known for his famous "kicking classes" that he holds with the playing groups he works with. He is EXACTLY the type of assistant coach we need. A little left field, a little cooky, but is a master at getting players to improve their basic skills with his unorthodox methods. I thought he would have been a great coach for our AFLW team, I think Vossy needs him now helping fix the issues with the blokes.
In the past we sack first and look later only to find that there's not a great deal of options for us. Leppitsch would be the the ideal choice but again head coach is not really the problem and never has been with us. It's the football department as a whole and our sack coach mentality is the source of all our problems.
Voss has a lot of good qualities, but like all people he doesn't bring a full range of good qualities to the table and enough to do it all on his own.
I'd like to think that Voss is someone we can help improve and someone we can make a success of. That's the path we need to go down. I don't think sacking him is an option unless he's got real problems. I think sacking him compounds our big problem. The elephant in the room is and always has been our reputation.
Voss has a lot of good qualities, but like all people he doesn't bring a full range of good qualities to the table and enough to do it all on his own.
I'd like to think that Voss is someone we can help improve and someone we can make a success of. That's the path we need to go down. I don't think sacking him is an option unless he's got real problems. I think sacking him compounds our big problem. The elephant in the room is and always has been our reputation.
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