Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[WalshistheGOAT]

1. the only traded in player at Carlton from any other Club that hasn't been out with long term injury has been Cerra and (so far) Acres.
2. Hewett/Pittonet/Williams/Martin/McGovern have all been and or are injured for great lengths of time - that wasn't anyone's plan sad as it has turned out - that is a fair bit of firepower that Voss hasn't had at his disposal - now add Cuningham /Marchbank/Philp /Sam Durdin ( Oscar McDonald) to the list.

Don't disagree, they are all the types of players we're missing atm too. Philp, Cuningham and Wiliams run and speed. Hewetts hardness around the ball and defensive mindset, Martin's xfactor up forward.

But we know by now none of them are likely to be the answers for us, if they ever get back to full health its still unlikely they'll be the players they could have been.

I've been unimpressed this year with Voss and have vehemently disagreed with the gameplan changes we've seen this season, but I also don't think its possible to accurately judge his ability with a list that is so desperately lacking what the best teams in the league are using in the modern game.
Friday nights skills were absolutely deplorable, missing basic kicks, having space put on us in chases and just being beaten to loose balls all around the ground. All the top teams this year are playing the same way, fast! We just don't have the cavalry required to do that atm and it's being highlighted due to expectations on the group to be better than we currently are.

 

[Coops93]

Everyone is talking about it, commentators, fans, everyone can see it, I've been saying it for years, but there are still the "sack the coach" brigade who come out after a loss. ITS NOT THE COACH, TOO MANY OF THE PLAYERS CANT EXECUTE BASIC SKILLS.
I noted with interest Choco Williams talking to H in the warm up, he is known for his famous "kicking classes" that he holds with the playing groups he works with. He is EXACTLY the type of assistant coach we need. A little left field, a little cooky, but is a master at getting players to improve their basic skills with his unorthodox methods. I thought he would have been a great coach for our AFLW team, I think Vossy needs him now helping fix the issues with the blokes.

Or, how about seeing if he wants to be a senior coach again?

He has the ego and the smart arsery to tell the backroom wannabes Carlton are infamous for to take a walk and wouldn't think twice about telling players putting in half efforts to do the same. Also has premiership coaching credentials.

Fwiw this is my inner angry fan talking and not necessarily my rational brain talking. I've had a few scotches. I can't say I know much about him since coaches Port- aside from he's been an assistant a few times. Why has he not been a head coach since Port?

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Left field. Fraser. Watched him build a VFL side (Preston) from scratch after we gave them the arse, on no pay until they were guaranteed a license. Developed a great on field system and camaraderie until COVID killed the season, we were flying. Lowest resourced team and could’ve made finals the way they were progressing.

The massive leap backward they took last year under Hart despite the same list shows his ability.


Doing wonders at the Pies. Know for a fact he’s had a huge role in their development since McRae took over. Look how much improvement there. I don’t want to sack Voss, I want Fraser in Brad Lloyd’s role. But if we do sack Voss, I want Fraser. Honestly.

As well, If Frase ends up in the system, as much as it would kill my beloved ants again, he’d probably bring Brodie Holland

Brodie Holland

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44

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181cm

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81kg

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Mid

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15.6

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10.2

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5.4

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4.0

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1.8

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D

10.8

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8.6

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2.2

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M

3.0

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T

1.0

3star

, who is doing a superb job with what he has at Preston this year.

 

[djw1952]

I personally don't want him replaced, but there are so many of you who do. Tell us who and why?

One bloke not mentioned on that coach list is a guy who is already at the club and that is Hansen who is supposed to be highly thought of as one of the untried coaches in the system.....just a thought that`s all. Don`t know his game plan though?!!

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Perhaps someone could make a list of where Voss has improved the team ... cause all I'm seeing is Carlton getting worse compared to last season with all our injury woes. At least last season Carlton were competitive. Seems like they have gone backwards. Tell us why this isn't Voss's fault .. whos is it?

ps. I get that it is not just the Coach. There are forces at work behind the scenes

We don't allow huge run on of goals and are defensively better -- compared to the side he took over 18 months ago we haven't encountered 60-100 point beatings and crickets scores kicked against with virtually the same list -- we still haven't fixed our scoring where we would go quarters without scoring ..
Some might be system some may be fwd personal - but yes we have two Coleman medalist that aren't tracking any worse this year than other years (albeit Harry kicking efficiency ) -- but haven't had a small fwd crack 25 goals for an eternity .. we also can't buy a midfield goal- so yes our clearance game hasn't been our one wood Voss definitely hasn't taught cripps and his teammates how to stop players running off him and being involved in scoring chains at will ..
Voss will probably lose his job but I don't think he has had every opportunity -- the list had been set before we hired our coach the first off the direction of Lloyd and Austin (Lloyd probably shouldn't be in his position ) Hamil had already been appointed and seems the captain wanted his old midfield coach back ..
if they do replace Voss hope they do it properly clean out the rubbish -- because the head coach isn't the only problem.. plus get two small and 1 hybrid goal kicking fwd another key defender one inside outside mid that can kick.. maybe will need a ruck if tdk goes as mirkov okeefe are miles off ..

 

[aristeas]

I groaned when we hired Voss.
But now he's here he has to perform, not walk away defeated with a pocketful of cash.

I don't want to change the coach, I want the coach to change his thinking.
The plan, what he's doing refusing to think differently, is why we''re losing.

Good players playing with pride and commitment don't turn into imbeciles or weaklings in a few weeks.
The plan is killing us. The focus on defence when we have put more scoring shots on the board and still lost was insane. The result is players playing a losing brand of football and looking uncommitted because they can tell it isn't working.

And the result is 6.8.44. That not even a good enough score at half time.

Yes there's a lot wrong at the club, has been for years.

But we could have won 4 of our last 6 with better goal kicking.

And Voss says "I refuse to be distracted away from defence."

It just flies in the face of logic, reality and common sense.

And the players know it, they can see what's not working, but a failed plan and an obstinate coach is preventing improvement, and now we're getting worse every week.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Maybe to please everyone here we can sack Voss and keep him at the same time. Sack him as Senior Coach and hire him again as Chief Inspiration Officer. Then install Hardwick as Chief Football Gandalf to guide young padawan Kade Simpson

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Kade Simpson

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39

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75kg

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21.3

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14.0

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7.3

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5.7

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T

2.6

4star

MG

409.0

5star

D

16.3

4star

K

11.9

5star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

0.8

1star

MG

258.6

4star

D

2.0

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1.2

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HB

0.8

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0.8

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T

1.6

4star

as Senior Coach. Lastly, to appease the fans that are not happy with the players, we delist them all and then hire them all back on the rookie list. That would also allow plenty of available spots on the senior list for trade week. Brilliant, I know. You’re welcome.

 

[Accidental genius]

Be innovative, split the role…

Keep Voss as Head Coach off field and hire Pyke as game day coach…

Split the stress and long hours…

Innovation is good but that one sounds Good in theory, difficult in practice?

Could be a confusing situation.

Imo best to keep it simple. Good coach/manager with good tactical assistants.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Lol

Kings of Lygon goes to the trouble of sourcing quotes identifying a dysfunctional board. I know of two senior officials who were at the club in 21’ who said the board weren’t even interested in going through Lyon’s coaching acumen, relationships with players etc. They had made their mind up on him already.

Disgraceful. But, unsurprising from such a sanctimonious, amateurish board.

Kings of Lygon apparently you can’t have an opinion on here re: Lyon situation if it’s anything to with his Fremantle days and our dysfunctional board being too cooked about it.

Y’know…you’re just another “lazy peanut”…

Who said you can’t have an opinion ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

In my opinion, mainly based on reading the Tea Leaves in the media, the club will not pull the trigger on Voss (least until after the season) cause A sacking coaches mid season rarely produces the long term results needed (esp with a caretaker like Teague doing unexpectedly well and given the full time gig without any serious thought and consideration to other potential applicants) and B, with Dimma Hardwick quitting and Clarko steeping aside in recent weeks, mainly due to exhaustion/stress related factors, from a PR perspective, it would be a TOTAL nightmare if we sacked Voss now, after only being in charge for 30 something games in charge.

Finally, we are not making finals no matter what happens for the rest of the season or if we sacked Vossy tomorrow, so there is no actual tangible or positive endgame we could achieve before the season ends (aside from giving the usual coach killing bums/slackers on our list another reason not to be traded or delisted)

We could very well still make finals if our blokes started playing even average footy.

That they can't presently is an indictment on the players, particularly the team leaders (Cripps, Weiters, Walsh, Doc etc.), the coaching group (noting Voss gets the big bucks for some reason right?) and the Club admin.

All of them.

This not sacking a coach thing mid season is tiresome - other codes - football (soccer), NBA etc etc. have no hesitation in acting within a season.....

Nor should we.

AFL should be no different.

(Name one thing Voss has changed in the past 6 weeks that gives you confidence he will change something (anything?) moving forward?)

 

[RPCB]

This not sacking a coach thing mid season is tiresome - other codes - football (soccer), NBA etc etc. have no hesitation in acting within a season.....

Yep. ”We can’t sack another coach and look bad.” Because we don’t look bad right now?

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

 

[Magruder]

Lol

Kings of Lygon goes to the trouble of sourcing quotes identifying a dysfunctional board. I know of two senior officials who were at the club in 21’ who said the board weren’t even interested in going through Lyon’s coaching acumen, relationships with players etc. They had made their mind up on him already.

Disgraceful. But, unsurprising from such a sanctimonious, amateurish board.

Kings of Lygon apparently you can’t have an opinion on here re: Lyon situation if it’s anything to with his Fremantle days and our dysfunctional board being too cooked about it.

Y’know…you’re just another “lazy peanut”…

yeah, nah.

it is possible to simultaneously hold the views that Lyon was the best availabLe coach but also that his personal circumstances were of concern.


The thread asks who/what now… it’s explicitly not an invitation To prosecute grievances about the non-appointment of Ross Lyon.

If you reckon the board should go, fine. But what would you do now?

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Sayers should have stepped aside already due to the PWC fiasco. imo.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We need to face our coaching issues from an unemotional position, the head coach is just a link in the chain of preparing players to perform.
The job security is directly related to the team's results and overall harmony, and no coach would expect any other promises or guarantees.
I'm pretty sure Voss never announced that the playing list was no where near good enough and to expect a drop down to 14th position before things turn around, when applying for the role.

To believe that Carlton is a coaches graveyard is nonsense, Bolton and Teague were immediately absorbed into other clubs coaching panels despite losing their Carlton job, it was was just found out that head coach might have been above their station.(I think Bolton would be okay with our current list)
If Cook and his team decide that changes need to be made/everything is all good, then I'll accept that?
But lets not wait another 18 months to make this decision.
If new coaches are targeted, ffs lets gather a younger group more astute with the requirements of modern footy to select the new personnel.

 

[AlphaBlue]

can we please stop sacking coaches after a season or two. They need at least 3-5 years so show their mettle.

I disagree… you know pretty quickly if someone is up to it or not. Hence most jobs having a probation period of 3-6 months.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Forgotten where it was announced but mighta been Footy Classified or Damo's daily podcast crap. Sounds like the club wanted to keep it under wraps as they knew it wouldn't be received well.

Lets face it though, regardless of opinions on his performance nobody would get half these blokes bodies right. Cuningham, Gov, Martin, Marchbank, Williams, Philp... They just don't have the bodies to get through the rigors of AFL and will be gone because of it. Same with types like Nathan Freeman for the Pies.

Clearly the club has made the judgement that it's the players bodies that are the problem, not Russel's programs.

Then the list manager should get sacked for continually re-signing these players. Granted Gov and Martin were signed on long term deals by SOS but Austen offering Cunners and Marchy deals at the end of last year was dumb as dogshit…basically akin to playing two short all year.

Couple that with the decision to re-sign all our small forwards over the past twelve months - Fisher, Owies, Durdin and Motlop - despite the fact they are all below league standard, and I think the torch needs to be focussed squarely on Austen. He seems well out of his depth as a list manager.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I disagree… you know pretty quickly if someone is up to it or not. Hence most jobs having a probation period of 3-6 months.

It’s fair to say after his first six months in the job when we were 8-2 last year Voss would have successfully passed probation.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Then the list manager should get sacked for continually re-signing these players. Granted Gov and Martin were signed on long term deals by SOS but Austen offering Cunners and Marchy deals at the end of last year was dumb as dogshit…basically akin to playing two short all year.

Couple that with the decision to re-sign all our small forwards over the past twelve months - Fisher, Owies, Durdin and Motlop - despite the fact they are all below league standard, and I think the torch needs to be focussed squarely on Austen. He seems well out of his depth as a list manager.

To be fair, Fisher was 7th in the F & B last year (but gone backwards at a rate of knots in 2023).

Owies has done his job:



Mots should be developing in the 2s and Durdin should be used more through the middle....

 

[AlphaBlue]

It’s fair to say after his first six months in the job when we were 8-2 last year Voss would have successfully passed probation.

Potentially, however we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and Voss is held accountable for plenty of other metrics besides only wins and losses.

 

[Magruder]

Potentially, however we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and Voss is held accountable for plenty of other metrics besides only wins and losses.

and yet the reason his tenure is being questioned is the win loss ratio.

if we were sitting with 7 wins, no matter how ugly it wouldn’t be on the radar.

 

[AlphaBlue]

and yet the reason his tenure is being questioned is the win loss ratio.

if we were sitting with 7 wins, no matter how ugly it wouldn’t be on the radar.

Us supporters and the media can only measure Voss’s success on his win/loss ratio.

Voss is responsible for many other things as head coach and only those within the club can comment on his effectiveness in those other areas

 

[macky99]

To be fair, Fisher was 7th in the F & B last year (but gone backwards at a rate of knots in 2023).

Owies has done his job:

View attachment 1704146

Mots should be developing in the 2s and Durdin should be used more through the middle....

Our small forwards have been awful all season, we expected some growth this year, even defensive pressure has been non existent.
Owies has a good game then a series of poor games.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Our small forwards have been awful all season, we expected some growth this year, even defensive pressure has been non existent.
Owies has a good game then a series of poor games.

That's not quite right.

His last two games have been sub par, granted.

But tough coming back after a lengthy lay off? Before the injury, he was one of the best SFs in the league....

 

[The Flying Doormat]

One potential candidate not shown above is Marty Mattner, current coach of Sturt in the SANFL. Wouldn't be on people's radar, however a quick analysis of his coaching history and achievements sees him tick many if not all the boxes.