Stats observations

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Looking at the 1940 VFL season to see any discrepancies in goals. Done 6 rounds, might do some tomorrow.

Round 1:
Essendon vs Melbourne
The Age - Essendon: T. Reynolds 6, Exelby 5, Watts 1, Torney 0 (the goalscorer list is missing 3 goals)
AFL Tables - Essendon: Exelby 6, T. Reynolds 5, Watts 3, Torney 1

Hawthorn vs North Melbourne
The Age - Hawthorn: Bell 1
AFL Tables - Hawthorn: Hone 1
The Age - North Melbourne: Murray 5, Dyer 2, Findlay 2, Wells 1
AFL Tables - North Melbourne: Murray 6, Dyer 3, Findley 1, Wells 0


Round 2:
Melbourne vs Richmond
The Age - Melbourne: Smith 3, Gibb 2
AFL Tables - Melbourne: Smith 4, Gibb 1
The Age - Richmond: McDonald 1, Symons 0
AFL Tables - Richmond: Symons 1, McDonald 0

Carlton vs South Melbourne
The Age - Carlton: Schmidt 2, Mooring 1
AFL Tables - Carlton: Mooring 2, Schmidt 1


Round 3:
St Kilda vs North Melbourne
The Age - North Melbourne: Dyer 3, Thomas 1
AFL Tables - North Melbourne: Dyer 2, Thomas 2

Essendon vs South Melbourne
The South Melbourne goalscorer list is missing one goal, which AFL Tables credits to McKenzie


Round 4:
South Melbourne vs Hawthorn
The Age - Hawthorn: Barker 1, Sutherland 0
AFL Tables - Hawthorn: Sutherland 1, Barker 0

North Melbourne vs Collingwood
The Age - Collingwood: Knott 3, Dawson 1
AFL Tables - Collingwood: Knott 2, Dawson 2


Round 5:
Melbourne vs Collingwood
The Age - Collingwood: Barrett 2, Pannam 1
AFL Tables - Collingwood: Pannam 2, Barrett 1


Round 6:
Nothing noted.
 
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With some full matches available on YouTube, here's something that might be useful - We can get scoring progression. So here's Richmond vs Fitzroy from Round 6, 1986. I timed the quarters between sirens (Roach's behind after the siren at the end of the first quarter - I "ended" it when the goal umpire signaled the point).

First quarter (32:48)
1-0 Dale Weightman behind (R)
1-1 Doug Barwick behind (F)
7-1 Phil Egan goal (R)
7-7 Gary Pert goal (F)
7-13 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
7-14 Mick Conlan behind (F)
8-14 Rushed (John Manton) (R)
9-14 Michael Roach behind (R)
9-15 Rushed (Mick Conlan) (F)
15-15 Brendan Bower goal (R)
15-21 Richard Osborne goal (F)
15-27 Gary Pert goal (F)
21-27 Michael Roach goal (R)
21-33 Paul Roos goal (F)
21-34 Mick Conlan behind (F)
22-34 Michael Roberts behind (R)
28-34 Brendan Bower goal (R)
28-35 Bernie Quinlan behind (F)
34-35 Phil Egan goal (R)
40-35 Mark Eustice goal (R)
40-36 Graham Osborne behind (F)
41-36 John Annear behind (R)
42-36 Michael Roach behind (R)

Second quarter (30:11)
42-42 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
42-43 Richard Osborne behind (F)
43-43 Mark Eustice behind (R)
44-43 Rushed (John Annear) (R)
44-49 Richard Osborne goal (F)
44-55 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
44-61 Gary Pert goal (F)
50-61 Michael Roach goal (R)
56-61 Michael Roach goal (R)
56-62 Richard Osborne behind (F)
56-68 Richard Osborne goal (F)
62-68 John Annear goal (R)
62-74 Scott McIvor goal (F)
63-74 Rushed (R)
64-74 Rushed (Mark Eustice) (R)
65-74 Michael Roach behind (R)

Third quarter (30:02)
66-74 Stephen James behind (R)
66-75 Richard Osborne behind (F)
66-81 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
66-82 Richard Osborne behind (F)
72-82 Jeff Hogg goal (R)
72-88 Doug Barwick goal (F)
78-88 Michael Roach goal (R)
78-94 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
78-95 Grant Lawrie behind (F)
79-95 John Annear behind (R)
85-95 John Manton goal (R)
91-95 Michael Roach goal (R)
91-101 Bernie Quinlan goal (F)
92-101 Brendan Bower behind (R)
98-101 Chris Burton goal (R)
104-101 Peter Francis goal (R)

Fourth quarter (29:47)
105-101 Mark Eustice behind (R)
105-107 Paul Roos goal (F)
105-108 Rushed (F)
111-108 Michael Roach goal (R)
112-108 Rushed (Michael Roach) (R)
113-108 Michael Roach behind (R)
114-108 Michael Roach behind (R)
114-114 Mick Conlan goal (F)
114-120 Richard Osborne goal (F)
120-120 Michael Roach goal (R)
121-120 Dean Notting behind (R)
121-121 Doug Barwick behind (F)
122-121 Chris Burton behind (R)

Now this is also interesting because I've uncovered two things to be fixed.
1. Jeff Hogg kicked one goal, but that goal is incorrectly attributed to Craig Smith. Hogg's goal occurs at 1:09:20 in the video.
2. Dean Notting didn't wear 58 in this match, he wore 51.
 
I think we/someone should definitely go through old footage and record/update stats.

Anyone know why AFL Tables stats only go back to 1965? Did the Melbourne papers in 1965 start recording quarter by quarter stats?
 
Highest aggregate attendance for opening 2 games of a season:
163,033 - 2018
156,607 - 2009
139,391 - 2017
133,167 - 2018
129,782 - 2010
116,488 - 2012 (ignore GWS v SYD, and first 2 games had 156,751)
110,506 - 2015
108,208 - 2001
105,175 - 1999
104,211 - 2016
103,523 - 2011
100,758 - 2008
 
SunGirl89 said:
I think we/someone should definitely go through old footage and record/update stats.

Anyone know why AFL Tables stats only go back to 1965? Did the Melbourne papers in 1965 start recording quarter by quarter stats?
Click to expand...

With the recent Gary Ablett Sr. goal amendment and Jeff Hogg's rediscovered goal, you have to wonder just how many miscredited goals there really are.

Another thing about Jeff Hogg - He played his last 33 games in losing sides. His last win was Round 13, 1994. He played all but one game for the rest of the season, except Round 20, which Fitzroy WON. In his two seven-week stints on the sidelines in 1995 and 1996, Fitzroy won their last three games before both Hogg and Fitzroy left the AFL for good.
 
Full games from 1986 VFL season I can find on Youtube

Round 1
Richmond vs Melbourne

Round 2
Carlton vs Richmond

Round 4
St Kilda vs Hawthorn
Essendon vs Melbourne

Round 5
Richmond vs St Kilda

Round 6
Fitzroy vs Richmond
Hawthorn vs Essendon
Geelong vs Footscray (split into quarters)

Round 7
Footscray vs North Melbourne

Round 8
Essendon vs St Kilda

Round 11
Richmond vs Footscray
Essendon vs Sydney

Round 12
Melbourne vs Richmond

Round 15
North Melbourne vs Richmond

Round 17
Essendon vs Carlton

Round 19
Essendon vs Richmond

Round 22
Richmond vs Geelong

Elimination Final
Fitzroy vs Essendon

Qualifying Final
Carlton vs Sydney
 
Highest aggregate attendance for consecutive H&A MCG games (same season):
173,342 - R5, 2017
171,953 - R5-6, 2014
168,511 - R5, 2018
168,205 - R5, 2011
167,691 - R4-5, 2011
163,597 - R5-6, 2018
163,421 - R15, 2013
163,033 - R1, 2019
161,469 - R5, 2010
161,373 - R14-15, 1995
160,059 - R17-18, 2011
160,154 - R4-5, 2015
158,793 - R21-22, 1995
157,431 - R4, 1995
156,751 - R24, 2011
156,607 - R1, 2009
156,550 - R8, 2012
156,459 - R8-9, 2009
155,234 - R19-20, 2018
 
Two extremes, the young and the old.

Former Hawk and Tiger Barry Rowlings has the record for being the oldest debutant to go on and play 200 games.
He made his debut in 1975 aged 24y 248d and went on to play 234 times.

On the other hand, Bomber Tim Watson debuted as a 15 year old in 1977 and before he turned 24y 248d, had already played 191 games!
 

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Connor7395 said:
With some full matches available on YouTube, here's something that might be useful - We can get scoring progression. So here's Richmond vs Fitzroy from Round 6, 1986. I timed the quarters between sirens (Roach's behind after the siren at the end of the first quarter - I "ended" it when the goal umpire signaled the point).

Now this is also interesting because I've uncovered two things to be fixed.
1. Jeff Hogg kicked one goal, but that goal is incorrectly attributed to Craig Smith. Hogg's goal occurs at 1:09:20 in the video.
Click to expand...
Nicely spotted! It's a bit hard to know how they mixed those two up, but both were in their debut years so perhaps just not well recognised. It was obviously recorded incorrectly back then and it's stayed wrong in the system ever since. The following week's Football Record gave Smith a goal (none for Hogg) and The Age match report had the same. The AFL Historical Statistics page for Richmond in 1986 gives Hogg 8 goals for the year, matching what AFL Tables has, so there's no doubt where the error stems from.

If you haven't contacted the AFL over this (and don't intend to), it would be ideal if you posted the story in the Footy History "inaccuracy thread". That should ensure that the mistake gets fixed.
 
Today's pointless question: Does the Saints v Suns game set a record for the most Jacks in one game? Saints have 6 and Suns have 4.

Can anybody work out the game with most occurrences of a single christian name in a game, or by a team? It's probably a game from the 30s involving 'Johns'.
 
SunGirl89 said:
Note to self, or Gibbsy: check points for
14.x - Coventry - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1934/041019340818.html
14.x - Coleman - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1954/050619540529.html
13.x - Coleman - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1952/050919520616.html
13.x - Coleman - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1952/051019520823.html
13.x - Clover - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1921/031519210723.html
12.x - Pratt - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1934/071619340825.html
Click to expand...
I made this post in June of last year, and still wonder if/when we'll get to see the results of Col's efforts!:

I'm pretty sure I posted this elsewhere, it was part of an email I received from the AFL's Col Hutchinson back in February:

"On another subject, I have been processing the goals and behinds scored by individual players match-by-match in the period spanning 1931-1964.
The following sources of data are being used:
The Age, Sporting Globe, Geelong Advertiser, The Record (Emerald Hill) and some hand-written records relating to Carlton matches.
Some club annual reports also contain such data.
Obviously, there are some gaps where such information was not published, but significant useful data is being accumulated.
The South Melbourne information is quite comprehensive.
Such match information for almost every Swans' season from 1931 onwards is available.
The exceptions are 1946-47-48.
It is likely that the local Footscray and Essendon newspapers published similar data during some of the relevant seasons."

I have no idea what Col H./the AFL stats folks plan on doing with this, but I really hope they pass on what they have found to the likes of AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com.
 
Wallaby said:
Today's pointless question: Does the Saints v Suns game set a record for the most Jacks in one game? Saints have 6 and Suns have 4.

Can anybody work out the game with most occurrences of a single christian name in a game, or by a team? It's probably a game from the 30s involving 'Johns'.
Click to expand...

The 1900's had the Bills, the 1930's had the Jack's, the 1960's had the John's, and I guess the Jack's returned today.

Hawthorn vs Footscray, Rd 3 1960 - 11 John's , and coach John - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1960/071019600507.html

Richmond vs Geelong, Rd 6 1933 - 10 Jack's, and umpire Jack - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1933/091419330603.html

Richmond vs St Kilda, Rd 10 1933 - 10 Jack's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1933/141519330701.html

Footscray vs Geelong, Rd 1 1960 - 10 John's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1960/070919600418.html

Carlton vs Hawthorn, Rd 4 1960 - 10 John's, and coach John - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1960/031019600514.html

Hawthorn vs Carlton, Rd 15 1960 - 9 John's, and umpire John, and coach John - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1960/031019600806.html

St Kilda vs Geelong, Rd 11 1933 - 9 Jack's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1933/091519330708.html

Geelong vs Richmond, Rd 17 1933 - 9 Jack's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1933/091419330826.html

St Kilda vs Geelong, Rd 12 1934 - 9 Jack's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1934/091519340728.html

Carlton vs Fitzroy, Rd 9 1900 - 9 Bill's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1900/030619000630.html

South Melbourne vs Geelong, Rd 11 1904 - 9 Bill's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1904/091619040716.html

South Melbourne vs Essendon, Rd 11 1905 - 9 Bill's - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1905/051619050722.html

I only checked a couple of seasons though, but one game in 1960 was 27.5% John and was coached by a John.
 
SunGirl89 said:
Attendance for 6 games so far is 304,411. Need about 71,000 to be the 5th best ever Round crowd and 78,000 to be 4th (below).
25000 - Saints v Suns @ Docklands
13000 - GWS v Essendon @ Showgrounds
40000 - Freo v NM @ Perth

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/summary.html
Click to expand...

I wasn’t too far off:
20291 - Saints v Suns @ Docklands
15424 - GWS v Essendon @ Showgrounds
40033 - Freo v NM @ Perth

Round 1 crowd: 380,159 (5th best ever)
 
Both grand finalists from last year lost their opening round games, the first instance since Collingwood and Geelong in 2012. The other instances are:

1999 Adelaide and North Melbourne
1997 North Melbourne and Sydney
1957 Melbourne and Collingwood
1907 Carlton and Fitzroy
1903 Collingwood and Essendon
1900 Fitzroy and South Melbourne
 
SunGirl89 said:
I think we/someone should definitely go through old footage and record/update stats.

Anyone know why AFL Tables stats only go back to 1965? Did the Melbourne papers in 1965 start recording quarter by quarter stats?
Click to expand...

A weekly magazine called Footy Week began in 1965, and from 1966 to 1971 ? was published in newspaper format.
I think that is where the week-by-week stats come from.

The Sporting Globe had at least one match per week in many of the 1930s seasons and that detail is on the australianfootball.com website.
SG in the 30s and then other papers post-WW2 published match stats for finals too and they are also on the AF site.
 
As well as both grand finalists losing their opening round games, three of the four preliminary finalists lost, with Melbourne also suffering defeat. This is the first instance since 2007 when runner up Sydney lost their opening round game, along with Adelaide and Fremantle, the 2006 preliminary final losers.

The only year where the top four teams from the previous season failed to win their opening round games was 1957. Both 1956 grand finalists Melbourne and Collingwood lost, whilst Geelong and Footscray played a draw against each other.
 
Most Career Behinds* (after R1, 2019)

781 - Kevin Bartlett
724 - Leigh Matthews
690 - Gary Ablett Snr
661 - Lance Franklin
641 - Jason Dunstall
612 - Bernie Quinlan
590 - Tony Lockett
551 - Matthew Richardson
523 - Doug Wade
471 - Stephen Kernahan
470 - Peter McKenna
457 - Wayne Carey
455 - Nick Riewoldt

*given known records (1965-)
 
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John Worsfold today became the 16th coach to 350 games.

If Essendon go 8-14 this year, Worsfold will join Rodney Eade as the only coaches to not have a winning record over 350+ games. To me that would indicate that both were allowed to coach for too long.
 
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