Stats observations

emuboy

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There are some interesting Richmond vs. St Kilda statistics as follows:

  • After Melbourne and Richmond both played finals in 2018, Richmond & St Kilda have now gone the longest without playing in the same finals series. The Saints and Tigers were last in the same finals series in 1973.
  • Richmond, which entered the VFL in 1908 has met all of the 8 sides already in the league at that stage in the Grand Final, with the exception of St. Kilda.
  • The Saints and Tigers have met in finals games only twice, in 1939 and 1971.
  • These teams played the last game in which a side was kept goal-less, St Kilda beating Richmond 12.19-91 to 0.8-8 at the Junction Oval in 1961, unbelievably on a fine and sunny day.
  • In an early VFL game in Sydney in 1980, St Kilda jumped Richmond and led by over 5 goals in the first quarter. The Tigers ended up winning 34.18-222 to 11.4-70.
  • Ian Stewart won Brownlow Medals for both St Kilda and Richmond.
  • In 1983, St Kilda thrashed Richmond by 75 points, the biggest ever win by a wooden spoon team. This was beaten 4 years later by the bottom team Richmond, which beat St Kilda by 76 points in 1987.
  • Richmond and St Kilda played the last Anzac Day clash before Essendon vs Collingwood became the fixture for that day, Richmond thumping the Saints by 42 points in 1994.
  • St Kilda's premiership coach of 1966 Alan Jeans later coached Richmond for one unsuccessful season in 1992. Richmond's 1980 premiership coach Tony Jewell coached the Saints in 1983-1984, for two wooden spoons, before returning to the Tigers, where he coached them to the 1987 wooden spoon. Danny Frawley, a former captain of the Saints, coached Richmond in 2000-2004, delivering the Tigers last place in 2004.
 

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RedmanWasHere

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emuboy.

Another thing for you.


Former Port Adelaide teammates Brendon Lade and Adam Kingsley join the list of Richmond-St Kilda connections.

Lade was a Richmond asst before moving back to Port Adelaide and joined the Saints' coaching panel for 2019.

Adam Kingsley swapped St Kilda for Richmond for 2019.
 

Generalissimo

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Gary Ablett Jnr and Nathan Ablett were teammates at Geelong and Gold Coast. As far as I can tell, the last time two brothers were teammates at two different clubs was another pair of Abletts: Kevin and Gary Snr, who played for Hawthorn and Geelong.
 
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Gary Ablett Jnr and Nathan Ablett were teammates at Geelong and Gold Coast. As far as I can tell, the last time two brothers were teammates at two different clubs was another pair of Abletts: Kevin and Gary Snr, who played for Hawthorn and Geelong.
Pretty sure that Kevin had a stint over at Richmond with older brother Geoff in 1983-1984, prior to switching over to the Cats in 1985.

All 3 of them left Hawthorn at the end of the 1982 season......I saw all of Gary Ablett seniors 6 games for us.....He, along with Dermie & Langford, were our 3 emergencies for the 1982 Qualifying Final against Carlton....Some 3-some that.
 

SunGirl89

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Gary Jnr and Nathan
- Geelong 2005-07
- Gold Coast 2011

Gary Snr and Kevin
- Geelong 1985

Hawthorn
- Geoff 1973-1982
- Kevin 1977, 1979-80
- Gary Snr 1982

Richmond
- Geoff 1983-84
- Kevin 1984
 

footyfan78

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there are no other teams worthy
Quinlan not winning a best and fairest is incredible. He was one of first big bodied mids I saw dominate. Then moved to full forward.
Now we had likes of Kouta, Fyfe, Cripps and Bonts since as big bodied tall mids is far more common.
 

SunGirl89

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I take afltables.com to be gospel, although *Paul* does state on the Notes page: "I make no claim of 100% accuracy with any data on this website."

I have been investigating grand final times and I believe I have found some errors, or at least, too many coincidences.

Will update soon.
 

SunGirl89

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Prior to 1993, the last game of the season (the grand final), according to AFL Tables, was always played at 2:50 PM. Until 1930 when the Argus Finals system was in place, semi finals were played at 2:30 PM. One anomaly of that system was that the Minor Premier had the right to challenge if they lost in the finals. Sometimes they lost in Week 1, sometimes they lost in Week 2. If they lost in Week 2, then you effectively had a Grand Final replay.

In 1903, 1904, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1911, 1918 and 1927, the Minor Premier won their two finals thus no challenge was required. AFL Tables records the Week 2 final (aka the grand final) in each of these years to have occurred at 2:50 PM.

In 1909, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1917, 1919, 1921 and 1930, the Minor Premier won their first final but lost their second final and had the right to challenge. So in each of these years, there were repeat finals involving the same teams. (Only in 1916 and 1921 did the Minor Premier not reverse the previous week's result). Anyway, what I find to be highly coincidental, if not highly unlikely, is that the Week 2 finals in each of these seasons is reported to have occurred at 2:30 PM with the Week 3 final (grand final) played at 2:50 PM.

So we have 16 instances of the Minor Premier winning their semi final, and in the 8 instances where they won in Week 2, that game was played at 2:50, but in the 8 instances where they lost in Week 2, that game was played at 2:30?

I think that's enough reason to believe that something is amiss here.
 

SunGirl89

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GRAND FINAL TIMES*
2:50 PM - 1898-1992
2:30 PM - 1993-1994
2:45 PM - 1995-1997
2:50 PM - 1998
3:00 PM - 1999
2:45 PM - 2000
2:30 PM - 2001-2004
2:35 PM - 2005
2:30 PM - 2006-2018

2:30 PM - 19 times
2:35 PM - once
2:45 PM - 4 times
2:50 PM - 95 times
3:00 PM - once

NB: no grand final was played in 1897 or 1924
* may need updating depending on review of my previous post
 

MadMaxx

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Not sure if this has been posted before

The Hawks have played in 1976 H&A games, for 972 Wins 993 Losses and 11 draws
The Hawks have played in 86 finals for 53 Wins 33 Losses and 0 draws (note one extra time final versus North)

As of Rd 1 2019, that means we are W-1025 L-1026 (11 Draws),
Now, the Hawks first season in 1925 started off with 4 losses in a row, and only 3 wins for the year, and we were dismal for the next 35 years. We have always been in the red.

So, assuming we can start the season well, we will be in the black for the first time ever across 94 years.
 
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Not sure if this has been posted before

The Hawks have played in 1976 H&A games, for 972 Wins 993 Losses and 11 draws
The Hawks have played in 86 finals for 53 Wins 33 Losses and 0 draws (note one extra time final versus North)

As of Rd 1 2019, that means we are W-1025 L-1026 (11 Draws),
Now, the Hawks first season in 1925 started off with 4 losses in a row, and only 3 wins for the year, and we were dismal for the next 35 years. We have always been in the red.

So, assuming we can start the season well, we will be in the black for the first time ever across 94 years.
That's a long time to square the ledger.

Of course, our first 32 years up till 1956 weren't a great start.....We turned that point at 136 wins/440 losses from 576 games....A -304 differential.
 

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SunGirl89

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SunGirl89

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If Hawthorn can go 22-0 this year they will be 994-11-993 :thumbsu:

Hopefully they don't then go out in straight sets to fall back to 994-11-995 :D
 
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If Hawthorn can go 22-0 this year they will be 994-11-993 :thumbsu:

Hopefully they don't then go out in straight sets to fall back to 994-11-995 :D
Haha....Probably take us at lest 3 above average years to make up that leeway I'd imagine….1 bad year & that pushes the achievement back even further.
 

emuboy

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North Melbourne, which entered the VFL along with Hawthorn and the Bulldogs in 1925, has had a positive win-loss-draw record only once - the first game it ever played in the VFL.

After beating the Geelong Cats at Corio Oval in their (North Melbourne's) debut match, the Kangaroos lost the next week, and since that day have never held a positive win-loss-draw record in some 94 years since then.
 

MadMaxx

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There are some interesting Richmond vs. St Kilda statistics as follows:

  • After Melbourne and Richmond both played finals in 2018, Richmond & St Kilda have now gone the longest without playing in the same finals series. The Saints and Tigers were last in the same finals series in 1973.
  • Richmond, which entered the VFL in 1908 has met all of the 8 sides already in the league at that stage in the Grand Final, with the exception of St. Kilda.
  • The Saints and Tigers have met in finals games only twice, in 1939 and 1971.
  • These teams played the last game in which a side was kept goal-less, St Kilda beating Richmond 12.19-91 to 0.8-8 at the Junction Oval in 1961, unbelievably on a fine and sunny day.
  • In an early VFL game in Sydney in 1980, St Kilda jumped Richmond and led by over 5 goals in the first quarter. The Tigers ended up winning 34.18-222 to 11.4-70.
  • Ian Stewart won Brownlow Medals for both St Kilda and Richmond.
  • In 1983, St Kilda thrashed Richmond by 75 points, the biggest ever win by a wooden spoon team. This was beaten 4 years later by the bottom team Richmond, which beat St Kilda by 76 points in 1987.
  • Richmond and St Kilda played the last Anzac Day clash before Essendon vs Collingwood became the fixture for that day, Richmond thumping the Saints by 42 points in 1994.
  • St Kilda's premiership coach of 1966 Alan Jeans later coached Richmond for one unsuccessful season in 1992. Richmond's 1980 premiership coach Tony Jewell coached the Saints in 1983-1984, for two wooden spoons, before returning to the Tigers, where he coached them to the 1987 wooden spoon. Danny Frawley, a former captain of the Saints, coached Richmond in 2000-2004, delivering the Tigers last place in 2004.
St.Kilda and Richmond met for a third time in a finals game in 1973 (First Semi Final).

Ian Stewart not only won Brownlow Medals for both St.Kilda and Richmond, he played in Premiership teams for both (1966 and 1973) - the only player to do so.

Stephen Rae commenced his career with St.Kilda in 1969 (at 17 years of age) and played against Richmond in the 1971 finals. In 1973, Rae played two games for St.Kilda early in the season before being cleared to Richmond (to play alongside Ian Stewart). Rae played for Richmond against St.Kilda in the First Semi Final and then went on to play in the winning Grand Final that year.
 

emuboy

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There are only five examples of sides that kicked a score of 100 points or more and be beaten by a century.

Three examples involve St. Kilda. In Round 13 1978 Footscray thrashed St. Kilda 33.15-213 to 16.10-106 at the Western Oval, with the Saints' 16.11-107 kicked against Collingwood at Waverley Park in Round 17 1980 failing to stop them getting a 104-point belting from the Magpies, which kicked 32.19-211. In the equal second highest scoring game in AFL/VFL history which produced an aggregate of 337-points, St. Kilda kicked 16.13-109 against Geelong at Kardinia Park in Round 7 1989, but allowed the Cats to score 35.18-228 and were trounced by 119-points.

Another century thrashing in a high-scoring game took place in Round 6 1993 at Princes Park, where North Melbourne thrashed the Sydney Swans by 124-points, the Kangaroos winning 35.19-229 to 16.9-105. Despite the big margin, the free-flowing nature of the game and the skills on display made it entertaining to watch.

The fifth and to date most recent case of a side that scored a century losing by 100 points or more was Fitzroy, in Round 22 1995. The lowly Lions, last by a long way, scored their second highest score of the season of 15.11-101 in the final round against North Melbourne at Princes Park, but the Kangaroos kicked 30.24-204 to demolish Fitzroy by 103-points.

Given there has not been a 300 point aggregate in a game since a thrilling shoot-out between North Melbourne and the Bulldogs in Round 10 2003 (North winning 24.12-156 to 22.13-145), this just one of three 300 point games from 2000 onwards, I don't think we will be seeing a team with a 100 point score getting a century hiding any time soon.
 

SunGirl89

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^links to those 5 matches:

1978 - Footscray (213) v St Kilda (106): https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1978/071519780701.html
1980 - Collingwood (211) v St Kilda (107): https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1980/041519800726.html
1989 - Geelong (228) v St Kilda (109): https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1989/091519890513.html
1993 - North Melbourne (229) v Sydney (105): https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1993/121619930501.html
1995 - North Melbourne (204) v Fitzroy (101): https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1995/061219950902.html
 

SunGirl89

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First 6 rounds for Geelong

This year: Collingwood (MCG), Melbourne (KP), Adelaide (AO), GWS Giants (KP), Hawthorn (MCG), West Coast (KP).

6-0 - 2013, 2011, 2009, 2008
5-1 - 2017, 2016, 2014, 2000
4-2 - 2012, 2010, 2005
3-3 - 2018, 2015, 2007, 2002
2-4 - 2006, 2004, 2001
1-5 - 2003
 

SunGirl89

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ROUND 1 ATTENDANCES

400,401 - Round 1, 2017
375,114 - Round 1, 2018
367,792 - Round 1, 2012
365,867 - Round 1, 2013
364,544 - Round 1, 2007
359,939 - Round 1, 2016
359,470 - Round 1, 2015
 
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