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Stats observations

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Won every quarter, h&a games:

Won|Cb|Year|Pos
\9|Ge|2010|1st
\8|WC|1991|2nd
\|Br|2002|1st
\7|Ha|1989|1st
\|Es|2001|1st
\|PA|2001|3rd
\|PA|2004|1st
\|Ge|2008|2nd
\|Co|2011|2nd
\|Ri|2013|
 
Ron The Bear said:
Won every quarter, h&a games:

Won|Cb|Year|Pos
\9|Ge|2010|1st
\8|WC|1991|2nd
\|Br|2002|1st
\7|Ha|1989|1st
\|Es|2001|1st
\|PA|2001|3rd
\|PA|2004|1st
\|Ge|2008|2nd
\|Co|2011|2nd
\|Ri|2013|
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Why do you think in this era of 'equalisation' we see more inequality than we did during the 'war chest' era?
 
SJ said:
Why do you think in this era of 'equalisation' we see more inequality than we did during the 'war chest' era?
Click to expand...


May be the absence of local grounds, and the sanitised Dome plus the fully emcompassed 'G' which negates the influence of any wind advantages, so in the old days it would be hard to outscore the Dogs for 4 quarters at Whitten Oval or St.Kilda at the muddy Moorabbin.
 

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North ended up finishing 10th with a higher percentage (119.5%) than when we were last minor premiers in 1998 (117.4%). Not sure whether to laugh or cry at this.
 
Cooksen said:
In the Saints Freo game Jack Steven and Leigh Montagna combined for 94 disposals which is the highest ever between two players.

They also broke Robert Harvey's record for most disposals ever in a game for St Kilda.
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And the entire team broke the record most disposals in match - 520.
 
Observed in Round 23 2013.

Firsts for Hawthorn since 2010 and 1988.

Hawks and Swans even in the last 20 years.

A 50th not to celebrate for the Dockers.

A second time only for Fremantle.

A 175th to celebrate for the Saints.

Two first ever scoring occurrences for Brisbane.

Geelong’s best result from 300 matches.

Carlton make up for the final round of 1944.

The last at Football Park was the biggest for the Blues.

Richmond are 1 off an all-time club winning record.

West Coast’s opponents have had a 12% better accuracy rate at Subiaco Oval this year.

The Giant’s have lost 6 times as matches in all 4 quarters than West Coast did in their first 44 matches.

Nth Melbourne celebrate a 50th while Collingwood will be celebrating a coming 80th (but forgetting a 250th milestone).

Melbourne’s lowest in 60 years.

The Bulldogs’ results from the last 6 matches have been better than three of the finalists.

The Bulldogs results from the last 12 matches are the equal of one of the finalists.

The best attended round 23 ever.

The highest percentage of matches won in a particular category since 1901. (Largely due to the Tigers and the Giants.)

Details and More: Click Here
 
SJ said:
Why do you think in this era of 'equalisation' we see more inequality than we did during the 'war chest' era?
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4qpercent_zps48bb3077.png
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Percentage of matches won in all 4 quarters each season - 2013 to the end of the 'home and away' season.​
More wind affected venues in the past contributed to making it harder to win all 4 quarters but a significant factor is having a particulary weak team or teams in any given season - E.G. St kilda and Carlton 1897-1901, St Kilda 1986, Fitzroy 1966 and 1995-1996, Giants in the last two seasons.​
 
1stmeeting2013_zps69d83095.png
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2013 'first meetings' ladder. (1 match against the other 17 teams.)​
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With Essendon relegated to 9th the only significant difference to the 22 round final ladder is that Nth Melbourne would take 8th place on percentage over Carlton, Adelaide and West Coast. The top 7 positions are identical on both ladders.​
​
 

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RogersResults said:
More wind affected venues in the past contributed to making it harder to win all 4 quarters but a significant factor is having a particulary weak team or teams in any given season - E.G. St kilda and Carlton 1897-1901, St Kilda 1986, Fitzroy 1966 and 1995-1996, Giants in the last two seasons.
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It's interesting to note that in each case, except for the middle 1990s, there is a key factor reducing the supply of players:
  1. In the early days of the VFL, country recruiting was nonexistent and with a higher proportion of people on the land, this reduced the talent pool severely
  2. In the 1960s government-sponsored immigration programs flooded the catchments of Fitzroy, South Melbourne, Footscray and North Melbourne with Eastern Europeans with no knowledge of Australian Rules (and possibly dislike due to lack of suspense if they did watch it)
  3. in the 2000s indoor, television-oriented football at Docklands and radical drying of the climate in Perth has diminished the ability of shorter and/or less athletic people without great jumping prowess to play the game
    RogersResults said:
    80percent_zps1e014cc0.png
    ​
    Number of times finishing the 'home and away' season with a match/win percentage of 80 or more.​
    (% is as a percentage of number of seasons competed)​
    Click to expand...
    It's notable that Footscray and North Melbourne have never achieved a match win percentage of 80 or more in 88 years! It's hard to find a parallel to this sort of thing in any other closed sports league around the world, looking at other football leagues or other sports.
 
Despite a dismal 2013 season which resulted in just 2 wins, Melbourne's 2-20 return was enough to see them avoid the wooden spoon, as the GWS Giants won just once.

While for the past 30 years teams that have recorded just 2 wins for the season have subsequently collected the wooden spoon (St Kilda 1986, Fitzroy 1995, St Kilda 2000 & Fremantle 2001) and plenty of 2 win teams in previous years also finished last; the Demons are far from alone in this achievement, and a remarkable number of 2 win teams have avoided the wooden spoon as follows:

1897 - Carlton won just 2 games, against winless St Kilda
1901 - Carlton again win just twice, but St Kilda win only once
1911 - St Kilda return a terrible 2-16 season, but University win just 1 game that season
1914 - Melbourne's only 2 wins are against the winless University team.
1935 - Footscray win 2 (and draw 2) to eclipse North Melbourne, which finish 1-17.
1942 - Collingwood avoid their first wooden spoon in a 2-12 season, as Hawthorn finish 1-13.
1944 - Hawthorn have an abysmal 2-15-1 season, but this record beat that of the Cats, Geelong going 1-17 after returning after a brief recess during WW2.
1945 - Geelong go 2-18 as do St Kilda, but the Cats have a better percentage than the Saints
1964 - The South Melbourne Swans win only twice, both over the winless Fitzroy Lions
1972 - South Melbourne avoid the wooden spoon despite going 2-20, as North finish 1-21.
1981 - A win over Melbourne and an upset victory over Essendon see Footscray avoid the wooden spoon, with Melbourne's 1.21 team finishing last.
 
Luke Bruest has played 63 games.....has played in 52 victories and has endured 6 of his 11 defeats against the one side, and only participated in a loss to four different sides. Hawthorn are creating a fearsome record against 75% of the league in this period, if you take the Hawk's record from Rd 2 2011 until now, only West Coast's single win in 2011 adds to the 10 defeats that Geelong, Sydney and Richmond have inflicted on the Hawks in this time. In a three-season period, has a side lost to fewer opponents than the Hawks?
 
mianfei said:
  1. It's notable that Footscray and North Melbourne have never achieved a match win percentage of 80 or more in 88 years! It's hard to find a parallel to this sort of thing in any other closed sports league around the world, looking at other football leagues or other sports.
Click to expand...
Here's one I found without much trouble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hull_City_A.F.C._seasons
Current English Premier League team, Hull City since their foundation in 1904 have never won 80% of their matches.
Their best has been 77.4% in 1948-9 when in Div 3N they won 27 and drew 11 of 42 matches. I'd be surprised if there were not more such teams.
 
mianfei said:
It's interesting to note that in each case, except for the middle 1990s, there is a key factor reducing the supply of players:
  1. In the early days of the VFL, country recruiting was nonexistent and with a higher proportion of people on the land, this reduced the talent pool severely.
Click to expand...
Avoid sweeping generalisations (and sources that use them) such as, "In the early days of the VFL, country recruiting was nonexistent".
That would be news to Geelong whose players were in the "early days of the VFL" recruited mainly from a country town (not a city until 1910) with a population around 26,000 - officially 28,021 by 1908 (both Ballarat and Bendigo had larger populations at the time) and surrounding country districts and hinterland. (A number of football 'researchers' tend to ignore Geelong because the club and its performance never fits their 'theories'.)

Although it is true that at this time the Melbourne based clubs largely recruited from suburban Melbourne, an examination of the Essendon and Collingwood teams from round 1, 1901 reveals that Essendon had recruited Fred Hiskin from Rutherglen and Harry Wright from Ballarat, while Collingwood had Alf Boyack from Ballarat, Mat Fell from Tungamah in the Goulburn Valley, Peter Martin from the Geelong district club of Wellington and Jack Farell and Ted Rowell from Kalgoolie.
Essendon also had a player recruited from Fremantle - as Perth's population at the time was no more than that of Ballarat perhaps he could also be regarded as a 'country' recruit.

However in 1908 the population of Melbourne was 538,000 with a further 121,000 in Ballarat/Bendigo/Geelong leaving just under 600,000 living in the rest of Victoria - you could say from those figures that players from country Victoria were relatively under represented in the Melbourne based VFL teams.

Nearly half a century later the percentages were not much different - 62.5% of Geelong's 1951-52 premiership teams were recruited from country Victoria, 25% from the Geelong district recruiting zone and 12.5% from interstate. Their grand final opponents Essendon and Collingwood had 75% of their players recruited from their suburban recruiting zones. Essendon had 1 interstate recruit and Collingwood none.

Whether it follows that any of this leads to a less even competition is another matter.
 

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Home finals records for non-Melbourne teams
- excludes 'home' finals played in Melbourne
- includes Adelaide d. Port in 2005

TEAM | VENUE | P | W | L | FIRST | LAST
\Adelaide | Football Park | 11 | 7 | 4 | 1997 | 2012
\Brisbane | Gabba | 12 | 12 | 0 | 1996 | 2010
\Fremantle | Subiaco | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2003 | 2010
\Geelong | Corio Oval | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1897 | 1897
\Geelong | Kardinia Park | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2013 | 2013
\Port | Football Park | 10 | 6 | 4 | 2001 | 2007
\Sydney | SCG | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1996 | 2005
\Sydney | Stadium Aust | 7 | 6 | 1 | 2003 | 2013
\West Coast | Subiaco | 10 | 7 | 3 | 1991 | 2012
\West Coast | WACA | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1994 | 1994|
 
RogersResults said:
Here's one I found without much trouble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hull_City_A.F.C._seasons
Current English Premier League team, Hull City since their foundation in 1904 have never won 80% of their matches.
Their best has been 77.4% in 1948-9 when in Div 3N they won 27 and drew 11 of 42 matches. I'd be surprised if there were not more such teams.
Click to expand...
Soccer (and also baseball and ice hockey where schedules are so long high winning percentages are not possible) is actually not a fair comparison: if you read Loek Groot’s ‘Some Determinants of the Natural Level of Competitive Balance in European Football and US Team Sports: The Role of the Referee, the Scoring Context and Overtime’ and apply it to Australian football, it becomes apparent that the natural level of competitive balance in Australian football is in fact lower than in the North American team sports discussed simply because the sport is so high-scoring and vis-à-vis basketball or netball it is much easier for a team to make large numbers of unanswered scores.
stemline said:
Hawthorn in front for the first time EVER.

23,926.23,447 (167,003) to 23,795.24,220 (166,990)
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That is a reflection of how successful the club has been not only with the gerrymandered country zoning system, but also with building a sustainable support base. It is a lesson to other football clubs, but the very fact that so much past and present patronage is political in a country where from today’s election the will be effectively only one party makes it hard to emulate.
 
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="mianfei, post: 30019144, member: 79536"]Soccer (and also baseball and ice hockey where schedules are so long high winning eprcentages are not possible) is actually not a fair comparison:"
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You said, "It's notable that Footscray and North Melbourne have never achieved a match win percentage of 80 or more in 88 years! It's hard to find a parallel to this sort of thing in any other closed sports league around the world, looking at other football leagues or other sports."

To hopefully discourage you from the disservice you do yourself in many of your posts were you you make sweeping claims without evidence, I provided you with the example of EPL club Hull City that has never had a winning% of 80% since it was formed in 1904. Then you say in Soccer "where schedules are so long high winning eprcentages are not possible". I observe that Manchester United had a winning% of 81.6 in 2008-9.

If you say "all cats are black" and someone shows you a white one, it's time to reconsider you position and do some more research.
 

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Stats observations

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