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Stats observations

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Having read in a couple of stories (in The Age, I think) lately the claim that there are only 4 indigenous AFL footballers from Victoria I'm bemused. Koby Stevens (West Coast) and Allen Christensen (Geelong) certainly belong on the list, and Eddie Betts (Carlton) probably does, but it may be a close call as to whether he qualifies under state of origin rules for Victoria or WA. But 6 or 7 is a bit different to 4!

It's not an over the top suggestion to make that journalists quoting statistics should check in here before using them in their articles!
 
35Daicos said:
Having read in a couple of stories (in The Age, I think) lately the claim that there are only 4 indigenous AFL footballers from Victoria I'm bemused. Koby Stevens (West Coast) and Allen Christensen (Geelong) certainly belong on the list, and Eddie Betts (Carlton) probably does, but it may be a close call as to whether he qualifies under state of origin rules for Victoria or WA. But 6 or 7 is a bit different to 4!

It's not an over the top suggestion to make that journalists quoting statistics should check in here before using them in their articles!
Click to expand...

Too few resources trying to do too much is part of the problem as the old newspaper model struggles to re-invent itself. Given that, newspapers have always had imperatives of 'dead-lines' which has meant little time for fact checking and resort to 'information' made-up on the spot.

The inherited British model of schooling which has never been strong (and often actively discouraging of) on developing inquiring minds with skills and knowledge to find out more is another contributing factor. General ignorance is the norm. (Posters here excepted!)
 

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Ron the Bear,

an interesting thing is that Ron Clegg, the 1949 Brownlow Medallist, played 216 games after his last final. I was surprised to see him absent from the list and immediately realised he must have played in the 1945 finals.

It is noteworthy to see nobody from South Melbourne and St. Kilda in the 1940s and 1950s on the list of most games with no finals. However, it is clear that nobody from those two clubs played more games without a final than Harold Bray, the brilliant Saint centreman, who played 156 games. That must relate to the fact that these very poor clubs devoid of wealthy supporters could not afford to keep players for a long time: many went to coach in the country or onto business when still playing well, as with Jim Ross, who retired after his best season in 1954, and Keith Rosewarne.
 
Most goals in last match:

Code: 
 G Player              Cb Gm# Year Rd
-------------------------------------
18 Fanning, Fred       Me 104 1947 19
 8 Prior, Albert       Ha 103 1950 17
 8 Cloke, David        Ri 333 1991 24
 7 Hart, Eddie         Fi  98 1951 18
 7 Sholl, Craig        NM 235 2000 PF
 6 Pannam, Charlie H.  Ri 193 1908 18
 6 Laird, Chris        Sy  59 1922 18
 6 Todd, Ron           Co  76 1939 GF
 6 Dyer senior, Jack   Ri 312 1949 19
 6 Greenslade, Malcolm Ri   2 1971  4
 5 Best, Arthur        Me  27 1914 18
 5 Brereton, Harry     Sy 102 1922 18
 5 Baxter, Ken         Ca 153 1950 18
 5 Coleman, John       Es  98 1954  8
 5 Ruthven, Allan      Fi 222 1954 18
 5 O'Brien, Noel       Ca  32 1955 18
 5 Spencer, Stuart     Me 122 1956 GF
 5 Linney, Neville     St  43 1957 18
 5 Richardson, Barry   Ri 125 1974 GF
 5 Biffin, Ray         Me 170 1979 22
 5 Davies, Rick        Ha  20 1981 22
 5 Blight, Malcolm     NM 178 1982 SF
 5 Glendinning, Ross   WC 230 1988 EF
 5 Croft, Matthew      WB 186 2004 21
 5*Sylvia, Colin       Me 121 2011 22
 5*Gunston, Jack       Ad  14 2011 23
 5 Hall, Barry         WB 289 2011 24
 5*Nahas, Robin        Ri  55 2011 24
 
Ron The Bear said:
Most goals in last match:

Code: 
 G Player              Cb Gm# Year Rd
-------------------------------------
18 Fanning, Fred       Me 104 1947 19
Click to expand...

The month before his goalkicking feat, Fanning had signed a three-year contract as playing coach of Hamilton and Melbourne had refused to give a him a clearance. (This dragged on into 1948 with Fanning refusing to play for the Demons and the chairman of the Victorian Country Football League calling the VFL "fascists" over their handling of the matter.)

The ball Fanning kicked the 18 goals with against St Kilda was presented to him after the match by the secretary of the St Kilda Football Club.

Two weeks earlier the ball that Fanning had missed with after the final bell in the ANFC Carnival match in Hobart against W.A. was taken home to Perth as a trophy. (W.A. 16.10 dft. Vic. 15.12)
 
(Filling in some time until the first real match of the season starts - with the odds shortening for Richmond to win their 10th first match of the season in the last 30 seasons.)

More matches won with this margin than any other (plus some equals.)

Code: 
           Margin  Times 
All teams      1   314       
Adelaide       7     9       
Brisbane      15     7          
Brisbane      26     7          
Brisbane      27     7       
Carlton       16    47       
Collingwood   19    37       
Essendon       6    36       
Fitzroy       11    32 
Fremantle      1     7       
Geelong        6    30       
Hawthorn       2    23 
Melbourne     11    34 
Nth Melbourne  3    26       
Port Adelaide  8     6          
Port Adelaide 14     6       
Richmond       5    33       
St Kilda       5    23          
St Kilda       8    23          
St Kilda      10    23          
St Kilda      24    23       
Sydney/SM      1    33       
WB/Footscray   2    26       
West Coast     8    10
After 1 point the 2nd most common margin for all matches is 5 points - 304 times.

(Possibly some mathematical imperative in a game where you can score 6 points or 1 point?)
 
Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
 G Player              Cb Gm# Year Rd
-------------------------------------
 8 Prior, Albert       [COLOR=Sienna]Ha[/COLOR] 103 1950 17
 8 Cloke, David        Ri 333 1991 24
 7 Hart, Eddie         [COLOR=DarkRed]Fi[/COLOR]  98 1951 18
 7 Sholl, Craig        [COLOR=RoyalBlue]NM[/COLOR] 235 2000 PF
 6 Pannam, Charlie H.  Ri 193 1908 18
 6 Laird, Chris        [COLOR=Red]SM[/COLOR]  59 1922 18
 6 Todd, Ron           Co  76 1939 GF
 6 Dyer senior, Jack   Ri 312 1949 19
 6 Greenslade, Malcolm Ri   2 1971  4
 5 Best, Arthur        [COLOR=Navy]Me[/COLOR]  27 1914 18
 5 Brereton, Harry     [COLOR=Red]SM[/COLOR] 102 1922 18
 5 Baxter, Ken         [COLOR=Navy]Ca[/COLOR] 153 1950 18
 5 Coleman, John       Es  98 1954  8
 5 Ruthven, Allan      [COLOR=DarkRed]Fi[/COLOR] 222 1954 18
 5 O‘Brien, Noel       Ca  32 1955 18
 5 Spencer, Stuart     [COLOR=Navy]Me[/COLOR] 122 1956 GF
 5 Linney, Neville     St  43 1957 18
 5 Richardson, Barry   Ri 125 1974 GF
 5 Biffin, Ray         [COLOR=Navy]Me[/COLOR] 170 1979 22
 5 Davies, Rick        [COLOR=Sienna]Ha[/COLOR]  20 1981 22
Click to expand...
Some notable cases:

  1. Two from the same game - one of only two cases where a wooden spooner kicked the season’s highest score
  2. Linney in his second last match kicked St. Kilda’s only goal in a score of 1-5 (11) against Melbourne
  3. Coleman and his predicted successor as the league’s leading goalkicker O‘Brien both went down with injuries easily treatable today (and would have been treatable then but for the Coulter Law reducing their value)
  4. Hart kicked all but one of Fitzroy’s goals in his last match and became a commentator (how Fitzroy yearned for him at the western Oval in 1953?)
  5. Cloke kicked his highest bag in 331 games (which could have been over 400 but for injuries)
  6. Davies went on to set goalkicking records for Sturt in the SANFL after leaving Hawthorn
 
From this week's Football Record:

Tim Watson has been fooled. We all have. When the Essendon champion made his debut in 1977 aged 15 years and 305 days, he was announced as the third-youngest player to feature at League level.

Collingwood's Keith Bromage was thought to be the youngest ever, having made his debut for Collingwood in round 17, 1953, aged 15 years and 287 days.

Another Magpie, Albert Collier, was 15 years and 297 days old when he played his first game in round one, 1925, putting him into second place. But a recent finding has changed football history, and the place Watson, Collier and Bromage formerly held in it.

A player initially assumed to be 19-year-old Claude Lindsay Clough made his debut for St.Kilda in round one, 1900. It was the Saints' historic first win in League football after 48 consecutive defeats.

Football resercher Stephen Rodgers was checking unrelated information in The Herald dated June 8, 1900, when he noticed a reference to a young player named Clough. Clough was a recent addition to the St.Kilda team, and the reference stated he would not celebrate his 16th birthday until the following October.

He discovered one of football's great hidden tales. His research proved that the player was actually Claud Hamilton Clough, who was born October 8, 1884, at St.Kilda.

This means Clough was 15 years and 209 days on debut, making him the youngest debutant ever and seeing him jump ahead of Bromage, Collier and Watson.

"That's outrageous," Watson joked when told he had been bumped off the podium into fourth place. "Before I concede my position I'd like to see some confirmation or verification of this bloke's birth certificate."

Watson does, however, have Clough's measure in the longevity stakes. The three-time Essendon premiership star and former captain played 307 games in 17 seasons. Clough, a half-forward, kicked eight goals in 23 games and retired as a 16-year-old in 1901. He died in 1922, aged 37.

- Callum Twomey
Click to expand...

Gratuitous Tim Watson reference aside, a good read!
 

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Round 1 2012 is finally over:

There have been 1,388 first match of the season results.

The Swans 2012 result ranks 40th
The Giants 2012 result ranks 1,347th

The Giants are the first team to kick the lowest score of the round on debut since 1897.

Essendon has won the highest percentage of matches with 7 more scoring shots. by two points.

The first team to score more goals than behinds from 35 scoring shots was Carlton in round 17, 1905. They scored 18.17-125 v Melbourne 5.8-38.

First time since 1991 that Collingwood has conceded the highest score of the round in consecutive matches.

Only the 2nd time that West Coast has won three consecutive matches at Docklands Stadium. Previous: rounds 17,19,21 in 2007.

Some more here or here.
 

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Not sure whether any team can beat this. When Essendon played Fitzroy in Round 1, 1995, they led them 14.13 (97) to 1.0 (6) at three quarter time. Therefore, at that precise moment in time, Essendon possessed a percentage of 1616.7.
 
If you're angling at that being the best percent ever (at a break), it lies 20th.
Top of tree is 1951, where Coll. led North 48-1 at qrt time

There one better 3rd qrt also, 1899 South 55-3 over Carlton for 1833.33

.
 
Re that last question, just having a look at teams that had a bye in Round 1.

Best I could find was Fitzroy lead Essendon 30-2 at 1/4 time in R2, 1992

Does anyone know the history of Geelong always being the team to have a Round 1 bye in the years 1919 to 1924?
 
red+black said:
Re that last question, just having a look at teams that had a bye in Round 1.

Best I could find was Fitzroy lead Essendon 30-2 at 1/4 time in R2, 1992

Does anyone know the history of Geelong always being the team to have a Round 1 bye in the years 1919 to 1924?
Click to expand...

By request by of the ground manager of Corio Oval (1915 too) which was in effect the Geelong Football and Cricket Club - the only League club at the time that was its own ground manger. Also unlike the situation elsewhere, the cricket club also using the ground was part of the football club and not a separate entity.

The above is fact the next bit is supposition.

It perhaps gave the opportunity of an extra week to facilitate the scheduling of the local cricket competition and the preparation of the oval for the football season. (There was no cricket pitch at Kardinia Park at the time so Corio Oval was the city's main cricket venue.)
 
RedmanWasHere said:
If Geelong and St Kilda's 162 to 1 was Round 1 1899 it would be something like 16200% in Geelong's favour.
Click to expand...

It would have been exactly 16,200%. Unfortunately it didn't happen until round 3 of the sectional matches. Geelong's percentage on the sectional ladder went from 106.25 to 304.94. St Kilda's percentage went from 16.83 to 9.62.

It is of course the biggest score factor, after 162 times you opponent's score, comes:

59.5: Geelong 119 v St Kilda 2 (1899)
31.33: Essendon 94 v St Kilda 3 (1897)
29.5: Sth Melbourne 59 v St Kilda 2 (1897)
21.33: Sth Melbourne 64 v St Kilda 3 (1897)
20: Fitzroy 40 v Melbourne 2 (1899)

Highest since 1919:
10: Adelaide 130 v Fremantle 13 (2009)

More on multiplying your opponent's score here.
 

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