Stats questions

emuboy · Aug 30, 2021

With GWS Giants player Toby Greene in the news at the moment - unfortunately for all the wrong reasons - I noticed that he was born on Saturday 25 September 1993 which was Grand Final day that season, with Essendon defeating Carlton.

Does anyone know of any other players who were born on Grand Final day? The majority would of course be the star sign Libra, but there might be a handful of Virgos and Scorpios if the GF was particularly early or late for some reason.

RedmanWasHere · Aug 30, 2021

emuboy said:
With GWS Giants player Toby Greene in the news at the moment - unfortunately for all the wrong reasons - I noticed that he was born on Saturday 25 September 1993 which was Grand Final day that season, with Essendon defeating Carlton.

Does anyone know of any other players who were born on Grand Final day? The majority would of course be the star sign Libra, but there might be a handful of Virgos and Scorpios if the GF was particularly early or late for some reason.

Scott Lycett was born on the day of West Coast's first flag. (26-09-1992.)

Ron The Bear · Aug 30, 2021

emuboy said:
Does anyone know of any other players who were born on Grand Final day?

Full list

Player	Games	Club(s)	Career	D.O.B.	Result	Flag with
Lord, L. Jack	54	Me,St	1921-1926	16/09/1899	Fi d. Sy
Robbins, George	24	St,Ca,WB	1921-1930	12/09/1903	Co d. Fi
Knipe, Reg	1	Fi	1926	30/09/1905	Fi d. Co
Leahy, Ken	29	Ge	1925-1927	22/09/1906	Ca d. Fi	Ge
Wilson, Bob John	1	Ri	1929	21/09/1907	Ca. d Sy
Cross, Jack	1	Es	1929	26/09/1908	Ca d. Es
Barling, Bob	1	Ge	1933	28/09/1912	Es d. Sy
Abbott, Gordon	133	Ge,Es	1936-1947	26/09/1914	Ca d. Sy	Ge, Es (2)
Ford, Eddie B.	4	Ri	1942-1943	22/09/1917	Co d. Fi
Pattison, Frank	4	St	1951	29/09/1928	Co d. Ri
Foreman, Ian	2	WB	1952	11/10/1930	Co d. Ge
Evans, Jack Alfred	16	St	1951-1952	11/10/1930	Co d. Ge
Kingston, Ron	173	Co	1950-1959	10/10/1931	Ge d. Ri	Co
Merrett, Thorold	180	Co	1950-1960	30/09/1933	Sy d. Ri	Co (2)
McKay, Tom	23	St	1959-1964	24/09/1938	Ca d. Co
Fox, John	60	Ge	1960-1965	28/09/1940	Me d. Ri
Whitzell, Ray	3	WB	1960	28/09/1940	Me d. Ri
Sheahan, John	17	Ri	1962-1966	19/09/1942	Es d. Ri
Beer, Adrian	4	NM	1961	25/09/1943	Ri d. Es
Grainger, Gary	30	Es	1970-1972	24/09/1949	Es d. Ca
Fenton, Ron	11	WB	1970-1971	23/09/1950	Es d. NM
Miller, Neville	28	Sy	1970-1972	29/09/1951	Ge d. Es.
Stewart, Craig	150	Co,Ri	1978-1986	15/09/1956	Me d. Co
Holt, John	71	NM	1981-1988	29/09/1962	Es d. Ca
Czerkaski, Peter	46	Ri	1985-1990	19/09/1964	Me d. Co
Winmar, Nicky	251	St,WB	1987-1999	25/09/1965	Es d. St
Ashcroft, Marcus	318	Br	1989-2003	25/09/1971	Ha d. St	Br (3)
Murton, Phillip	7	Ha	1992-1994	29/09/1973	Ri d. Ca
Dyson, Ricky	114	Es	2004-2012	28/09/1985	Es d. Ha
Dickson, Tory	114	WB	2012-2020	26/09/1987	Ca d. Ha	WB
Lycett, Scott	127	WC,PA	2011-2021	26/09/1992	WC d. Ge	WC
Greene, Toby	176	GWS	2012-2021	25/09/1993	Es d. Ca
Fogarty, Darcy	41	Ad	2018-2021	25/09/1999	NM d. Ca
Jackson, Luke	28	Me	2020-2021	29/09/2001	Br d. Es

Tarkyn_24 · Aug 31, 2021

Lycett the only one to win a flag with the side that won the flag the day he was born

emuboy · Aug 31, 2021

Thanks Ron the Bear, that was amazing.

Although Lycett was the only player to play in a premiership team for the same team that won the day he was born, Essendon players Gary Grainger (1949) and Ricky Dyson (1985) were born on the same day as Essendon won the premiership, while Jack Cross (1908) was born when Essendon were runner up.

Reg Knipe for Fitzroy was born the same day the Lions won the 1905 flag, while John Sheahan (Richmond), Craig Stewart (Collingwood) and Nicky Winmar (St. Kilda) were born on the same days in 1942, 1956 and 1965 where the Tigers, Magpies and Saints finished runner up.

RedmanWasHere · Aug 31, 2021

Let's go the other way.

Have any VFL/AFL players died on GF day?

SJ · Aug 31, 2021

Ron The Bear said:
Full list

Player
Games
Club(s) Career
D.O.B.
Result Flag with
Lord, L. Jack
54
Me,St 1921-1926
16/09/1899
Fi d. Sy
Robbins, George
24
St,Ca,WB 1921-1930
12/09/1903
Co d. Fi
Knipe, Reg
1
Fi
1926
30/09/1905
Fi d. Co
Leahy, Ken
29
Ge 1925-1927
22/09/1906
Ca d. Fi Ge
Wilson, Bob John
1
Ri
1929
21/09/1907
Ca. d Sy
Cross, Jack
1
Es
1929
26/09/1908
Ca d. Es
Barling, Bob
1
Ge
1933
28/09/1912
Es d. Sy
Abbott, Gordon
133
Ge,Es 1936-1947
26/09/1914
Ca d. Sy Ge, Es (2)
Ford, Eddie B.
4
Ri 1942-1943
22/09/1917
Co d. Fi
Pattison, Frank
4
St
1951
29/09/1928
Co d. Ri
Foreman, Ian
2
WB
1952
11/10/1930
Co d. Ge
Evans, Jack Alfred
16
St 1951-1952
11/10/1930
Co d. Ge
Kingston, Ron
173
Co 1950-1959
10/10/1931
Ge d. Ri Co
Merrett, Thorold
180
Co 1950-1960
30/09/1933
Sy d. Ri Co (2)
McKay, Tom
23
St 1959-1964
24/09/1938
Ca d. Co
Fox, John
60
Ge 1960-1965
28/09/1940
Me d. Ri
Whitzell, Ray
3
WB
1960
28/09/1940
Me d. Ri
Sheahan, John
17
Ri 1962-1966
19/09/1942
Es d. Ri
Beer, Adrian
4
NM
1961
25/09/1943
Ri d. Es
Grainger, Gary
30
Es 1970-1972
24/09/1949
Es d. Ca
Fenton, Ron
11
WB 1970-1971
23/09/1950
Es d. NM
Miller, Neville
28
Sy 1970-1972
29/09/1951
Ge d. Es.
Stewart, Craig
150
Co,Ri 1978-1986
15/09/1956
Me d. Co
Holt, John
71
NM 1981-1988
29/09/1962
Es d. Ca
Czerkaski, Peter
46
Ri 1985-1990
19/09/1964
Me d. Co
Winmar, Nicky
251
St,WB 1987-1999
25/09/1965
Es d. St
Ashcroft, Marcus
318
Br 1989-2003
25/09/1971
Ha d. St Br (3)
Murton, Phillip
7
Ha 1992-1994
29/09/1973
Ri d. Ca
Dyson, Ricky
114
Es 2004-2012
28/09/1985
Es d. Ha
Dickson, Tory
114
WB 2012-2020
26/09/1987
Ca d. Ha WB
Lycett, Scott
127
WC,PA 2011-2021
26/09/1992
WC d. Ge WC
Greene, Toby
176
GWS 2012-2021
25/09/1993
Es d. Ca
Fogarty, Darcy
41
Ad 2018-2021
25/09/1999
NM d. Ca
Jackson, Luke
28
Me 2020-2021
29/09/2001
Br d. Es

Only two in 28 years seems low.

Ron The Bear · Aug 31, 2021

RedmanWasHere said:
Let's go the other way.

Have any VFL/AFL players died on GF day?

Player	Games	Club(s)	Career	D.O.D.	Result	Flag with
Walsh, Jack	29	Sy	1910-1912	18/09/1915	Ca d. Co
Palmer, Jack	4	St	1926	5/10/1946	Es d. Me
Sutterby, Reg	9	Ge	1919	17/09/1955	Me d. Co
Hogan, Edwin	2	St	1918	21/09/1957	Me d. Es
Jory, Percy	60	St	1912-1920	19/09/1964	Me d. Co
Potter, Bill	60	Fi	1898-1902	26/09/1970	Ca d. Co	Fi (2)
Bradley, Rupe	6	Ca,Fi	1904-1906	25/09/1976	Ha d. NM
Sullivan, Clarrie	9	St	1924-1925	30/09/1978	Ha d. NM
Flanagan, Jack	5	Ha	1930	30/09/1978	Ha d. NM
Rademacher, Arthur	101	Sy	1913-1920	26/09/1981	Ca d. Co	Sy
Latham, Edwin	2	WB	1936	25/09/1982	Ca d. Ri
Mount, Frank	4	Ca	1927-1928	30/09/1989	Ha d. Ge
Priestley, Charlie	109	Ri	1938-1947	26/09/1992	WC d. Ge
McMahon, Tom J.	2	WB	1943	24/09/2005	Sy d. WC
Sales, Jack	31	Co	1948-1949	29/09/2007	Ge d. PA
McKaige, Ken	19	Me,Ca	1951-1954	26/09/2009	Ge d. St
Stabb, Fred	12	Co	1942-1944	1/10/2011	Ge d. Co
Brain, Ray	13	Fi	1972-1974	28/09/2019	Ri d. GWS

Ron The Bear · Aug 31, 2021

SJ said:
Only two in 28 years seems low.

Maybe they're using medical advances to bring the birth forward so that Dad's grand final day plans aren't spoiled.

emuboy · Aug 31, 2021

Ron The Bear said:
Player
Games
Club(s) Career
D.O.D.
Result Flag with
Walsh, Jack
29
Sy 1910-1912
18/09/1915
Ca d. Co
Palmer, Jack
4
St

1926
5/10/1946
Es d. Me
Sutterby, Reg
9
Ge

1919
17/09/1955
Me d. Co
Hogan, Edwin
2
St

1918
21/09/1957
Me d. Es
Jory, Percy
60
St 1912-1920
19/09/1964
Me d. Co
Potter, Bill
60
Fi 1898-1902
26/09/1970
Ca d. Co Fi (2)
Bradley, Rupe
6
Ca,Fi 1904-1906
25/09/1976
Ha d. NM
Sullivan, Clarrie
9
St 1924-1925
30/09/1978
Ha d. NM
Flanagan, Jack
5
Ha

1930
30/09/1978
Ha d. NM
Rademacher, Arthur
101
Sy 1913-1920
26/09/1981
Ca d. Co Sy
Latham, Edwin
2
WB

1936
25/09/1982
Ca d. Ri
Mount, Frank
4
Ca 1927-1928
30/09/1989
Ha d. Ge
Priestley, Charlie
109
Ri 1938-1947
26/09/1992
WC d. Ge
McMahon, Tom J.
2
WB

1943
24/09/2005
Sy d. WC
Sales, Jack
31
Co 1948-1949
29/09/2007
Ge d. PA
McKaige, Ken
19
Me,Ca 1951-1954
26/09/2009
Ge d. St
Stabb, Fred
12
Co 1942-1944
1/10/2011
Ge d. Co
Brain, Ray
13
Fi 1972-1974
28/09/2019
Ri d. GWS

I wonder if former Hawk Jack Flanagan lived long enough on 30th September 1978 to see Hawthorn defeat North Melbourne Kangaroos by 18-points to win the premiership?

worbod · Sep 1, 2021

Recently it was reported that Manchester United have set a new EPL record of 28 successive away games without defeat (obviously over consecutive seasons). Is anyone able to determine:

a) the most successive away wins in VFL/AFL history?
b) the most successive away wins for each club (including Fitzroy)?

Factor in draws if necessary in order to determine "successive away games without defeat".

the croucher · Sep 1, 2021

worbod said:
Recently it was reported that Manchester United have set a new EPL record of 28 successive away games without defeat (obviously over consecutive seasons). Is anyone able to determine:

a) the most successive away wins in VFL/AFL history?
b) the most successive away wins for each club (including Fitzroy)?

Factor in draws if necessary in order to determine "successive away games without defeat".

AFL Tables site looks to have system set up to answer variety of questions such as those..
Collingwood, for example, had 18 "successive away games without defeat" in 1928-30 period

AFL Tables - Collingwood - Streaks

afltables.com

AFL Tables - Streaks

afltables.com

Ron The Bear · Sep 1, 2021

worbod said:
Recently it was reported that Manchester United have set a new EPL record of 28 successive away games without defeat (obviously over consecutive seasons). Is anyone able to determine:

a) the most successive away wins in VFL/AFL history?
b) the most successive away wins for each club (including Fitzroy)?

Factor in draws if necessary in order to determine "successive away games without defeat".

As designated "away" team (includes finals; afltables.com does not)

Club	Streak	Between	Notes
Ad	5	2005 R13-2005 R22
Br	9	2001 R11-2002 R4
Ca	13	1945 R8-1946 R6
Co	18	1928 R5-1930 R3
Es	15	1999 R16-2001 R1
Fr	6	2015 R2-2015 R11
Ge	12	2007 R6-2008 R8, 2008 R11-2009 R12	streaks separated by a single loss
GC	3	2014 R5-2014 R9
GWS	6	2016 R13-2016 QF
Ha	11	2012 R11-2013 R12
Me	10	1940 R7-1941 R5
NM	8	1976 R8-1976 R20
PA	7*	2021 R10-2021 R23
Ri	10	1940 R3-1941 R1, 1973 R19-1974 R10	16 including a draw 1972-73
St	9	2009 R2-2009 R19
Sy	9	1918 R6-1919 R6	12 including a draw 1912-13
WC	8	2006 R18-2007 R5
WB	7	2008 R2-2008 R13
Fi	9	1919 R17-1920 R16	draw immediately before streak
Un	2	3 times 1909-10

worbod · Sep 2, 2021

Does somebody know who won the Player of the Year award in both the Herald Sun and The Age?

Catsace · Sep 4, 2021

With Essendon last week being the first side to be held goal-less in a Final since Geelong's loss to the Dogs in the 1956 1st Semi, I just decided to peruse that game on the AFL tables site.

I noticed that Max Cross kicked 4 of the Doggies' 5 goals that game, but not only that, he kicked 52 goals in 16 games that season. For that era, that's a pretty good strike rate at a time when the average score was about 70 points. And just as remarkably, he kicked just 2 goals in his 5 games in 1957, and that was his VFL career!

A little bit like Greg Kennedy of Carlton, who emerged in 1972 with 76 goals (albeit in a much higher scoring era) and then two tallies in the 30's before his career ended after 1974.I know not many on here would probably have seen Cross, but that's quite fascinating that one could burst onto the scene in a season like that then vanish...he's like the predecessor of Adrian McAdam, who did a similar thing in 1993.

RedmanWasHere · Sep 4, 2021

Catsace said:
Max Cross kicked 4 of the Doggies' 5 goals that game, but not only that, he kicked 52 goals in 16 games that season.

Was he a then future Footscray coach of the U19's or magoos?

35Daicos · Sep 4, 2021

Catsace said:
With Essendon last week being the first side to be held goal-less in a Final since Geelong's loss to the Dogs in the 1956 1st Semi, I just decided to peruse that game on the AFL tables site.

I noticed that Max Cross kicked 4 of the Doggies' 5 goals that game, but not only that, he kicked 52 goals in 16 games that season. For that era, that's a pretty good strike rate at a time when the average score was about 70 points. And just as remarkably, he kicked just 2 goals in his 5 games in 1957, and that was his VFL career!

A little bit like Greg Kennedy of Carlton, who emerged in 1972 with 76 goals (albeit in a much higher scoring era) and then two tallies in the 30's before his career ended after 1974.I know not many on here would probably have seen Cross, but that's quite fascinating that one could burst onto the scene in a season like that then vanish...he's like the predecessor of Adrian McAdam, who did a similar thing in 1993.

35Daicos · Sep 4, 2021

RedmanWasHere said:
Was he a then future Footscray coach of the U19's or magoos?

Could it be you are thinking of (the similarly named) Mark Cross? He played 4 games for Footscray, and went on to coach Melbourne at U19 and Reserves level.
Mark Cross (footballer) - Wikipedia

Catsace · Sep 4, 2021

35Daicos said:
View attachment 1226452

Used to love those in the footy records of the 70's and 80's. Particularly in the Finals versions. One day i'll need to check among the several boxes in my shed of my stash of them from 1978 until around the early 2000's. Indeed as a young Cat fan in the late 70's and 80's it was a wistful look at when Geelong played finals, especially by the time it was the early 80's and '51-'52-'63 got a guernsey.

35Daicos · Sep 4, 2021

Catsace said:
Used to love those in the footy records of the 70's and 80's. Particularly in the Finals versions. One day i'll need to check among the several boxes in my shed of my stash of them from 1978 until around the early 2000's. Indeed as a young Cat fan in the late 70's and 80's it was a wistful look at when Geelong played finals, especially by the time it was the early 80's and '51-'52-'63 got a guernsey.

It is handy that they are available online (to read/download), and searching them can be done quite easily as well.

RedmanWasHere · Sep 5, 2021

35Daicos said:
It is handy that they are available online (to read/download), and searching them can be done quite easily as well.

There are no online editions from 2019- on the SLV website.

Still reckon it's a Croc(media.)

Underarm · Sep 6, 2021

Lachie Neale is 4 wins, 9 losses in Finals. Where does that stack up in regards to the worst record? Or worst win % (min: 5 games)?

Ron The Bear · Sep 10, 2021

Underarm said:
Lachie Neale is 4 wins, 9 losses in Finals. Where does that stack up in regards to the worst record? Or worst win % (min: 5 games)?

5+ finals

Player	Clubs	Career	Gms	P	W	L	D	W%
Browning, Mark	Sy	1975-1987	251	5		5		0.0
Hawke, Paul	Sy,Co,Sy	1984-1991	114	6		6		0.0
Heppell, Dyson	Es	2011-2021	191	5		5		0.0
Hickey, Harry	WB	1937-1948	174	5		5		0.0
Hurley, Michael	Es	2009-2020	193	5		5		0.0
Mitchell, Barry	Sy,Co,Ca	1984-1996	221	6		6		0.0
Murdoch, Jordan	Ge,GC	2012-2019	122	6		6		0.0
Nash, Bob	Co	1904-1909	88	6		6		0.0
Olliver, Arthur	WB	1935-1950	272	5		5		0.0
Symmons, Paul	WC	1994-2000	99	5		5		0.0
Burns, Jack R.	Co	1941-1947	92	5		4	1	10.0
O'Callaghan, Denis	Co	1968-1975	129	10	1	9		10.0
Ryan, Phil George	Co	1942-1947	74	5		4	1	10.0
Wallis, Tom	Co	1942-1947	78	5		4	1	10.0

Neale =468th

10+ finals

Player	Clubs	Career	Gms	P	W	L	D	W%
O'Callaghan, Denis	Co	1968-1975	129	10	1	9		10.0
McKenna, Peter	Co,Ca	1965-1977	191	11	2	9		18.2
Dempsey, Gary	WB,NM	1967-1984	329	10	2	8		20.0
Stevens, Nick	PA,Ca	1998-2009	231	10	2	8		20.0
Tuddenham, Des	Co,Es,Co	1962-1977	251	15	3	12		20.0
Price, Barry	Co	1966-1979	158	14	3	11		21.4
Richardson, Wayne	Co	1966-1978	277	20	4	15	1	22.5
Liberatore, Tony	WB	1986-2002	283	13	3	10		23.1
Potter, Ted	Co	1963-1972	182	13	3	10		23.1
Dunne, Ross	Co	1967-1978	213	18	4	13	1	25.0
Gilby, Fred	Ca	1926-1937	179	12	3	9		25.0
Shirley, Robert	Ad	2000-2009	151	12	3	9		25.0
Smith, Rohan H.	WB	1992-2006	300	12	3	9		25.0
Thompson, Len	Co,Sy,Fi	1965-1980	301	22	5	16	1	25.0
West, Scott	WB	1993-2008	324	12	3	9		25.0

Neale =44th

footyfan1978 · Sep 11, 2021

Ron The Bear said:
5+ finals

Player Clubs Career Gms P W L D
W%
Browning, Mark Sy 1975-1987 251 5 5
0.0
Hawke, Paul Sy,Co,Sy 1984-1991 114 6 6
0.0
Heppell, Dyson Es 2011-2021 191 5 5
0.0
Hickey, Harry WB 1937-1948 174 5 5
0.0
Hurley, Michael Es 2009-2020 193 5 5
0.0
Mitchell, Barry Sy,Co,Ca 1984-1996 221 6 6
0.0
Murdoch, Jordan Ge,GC 2012-2019 122 6 6
0.0
Nash, Bob Co 1904-1909 88 6 6
0.0
Olliver, Arthur WB 1935-1950 272 5 5
0.0
Symmons, Paul WC 1994-2000 99 5 5
0.0
Burns, Jack R. Co 1941-1947 92 5 4 1
10.0
O'Callaghan, Denis Co 1968-1975 129 10 1 9
10.0
Ryan, Phil George Co 1942-1947 74 5 4 1
10.0
Wallis, Tom Co 1942-1947 78 5 4 1
10.0

Neale =468th

10+ finals

Player Clubs Career Gms P W L D
W%
O'Callaghan, Denis Co 1968-1975 129 10 1 9
10.0
McKenna, Peter Co,Ca 1965-1977 191 11 2 9
18.2
Dempsey, Gary WB,NM 1967-1984 329 10 2 8
20.0
Stevens, Nick PA,Ca 1998-2009 231 10 2 8
20.0
Tuddenham, Des Co,Es,Co 1962-1977 251 15 3 12
20.0
Price, Barry Co 1966-1979 158 14 3 11
21.4
Richardson, Wayne Co 1966-1978 277 20 4 15 1
22.5
Liberatore, Tony WB 1986-2002 283 13 3 10
23.1
Potter, Ted Co 1963-1972 182 13 3 10
23.1
Dunne, Ross Co 1967-1978 213 18 4 13 1
25.0
Gilby, Fred Ca 1926-1937 179 12 3 9
25.0
Shirley, Robert Ad 2000-2009 151 12 3 9
25.0
Smith, Rohan H. WB 1992-2006 300 12 3 9
25.0
Thompson, Len Co,Sy,Fi 1965-1980 301 22 5 16 1
25.0
West, Scott WB 1993-2008 324 12 3 9
25.0

Neale =44th

Just reading this cannot help but want to see Heppell get out to 6 or 7.
I think I remember hearing Rene Kink played in the most grand finals without ever experiencing a winning one.
Six I believe. Five with Collingwood and think he played in Essendon 1983 loss too.

NonPhixion · Sep 11, 2021

What is the biggest combined margin in Prelim finals?

I feel like we are going to be pretty close here

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