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Structural needs

  • Thread starter Thread starter PieLebo87
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wish Clement had a part of the 2010 premiership, i have no doubt he still could have played great footy 3 years after he retired.
 
THATSGOLD said:
Tarks started struggling towards the end of 08. I remember watching him a 2010 home and away game from the stands and he wasn't running the hard yards. Once that's gone you're finished. It's the reason Fasolo doesn't impress me (off topic)
Lockyer had one of the best kicks in the comp with Clement. We had them both together in D50 just brilliant.
H Shaw Johnson Lockyer Presti Maxwell Wakelin Clement we have been blessed with great defenders.
Reid must get fit and be the star we need in defence again. We are struggling for class down back.
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Clement was a star. No doubt we lack star talent in the current backline if Reid in unfit or plays forward. Realistically our current defense is a work in progress. Having some targets forward will help. If Grundy/Witts can pull a handful of marks around the ground each game Keefe's long kicking will become a weapon.
 
noideaatall said:
Clement was a star. No doubt we lack star talent in the current backline if Reid in unfit or plays forward. Realistically our current defense is a work in progress. Having some targets forward will help. If Grundy/Witts can pull a handful of marks around the ground each game Keefe's long kicking will become a weapon.
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Although Clement kicked 5 goals for us one day Malthouse knew he was our star CHB and left him there. Buckley took our star CHB back away ans refuses to put him back when he does get back on the park. I'll never understand the move out of defence just because Cloke was missing in the Brisbane game a few years ago. Just put him back Bucks!!!!
 
THATSGOLD said:
Although Clement kicked 5 goals for us one day Malthouse knew he was our star CHB and left him there. Buckley took our star CHB back away ans refuses to put him back when he does get back on the park. I'll never understand the move out of defence just because Cloke was missing in the Brisbane game a few years ago. Just put him back Bucks!!!!
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A coach can only play the cards he's dealt.

Would you have rather have had Keeffe forward? C'mon we've seen what that looks like and that's an even worse move.

Agree that Reid should be played in the backline, and IMO he will play back ...

... Especially given that now that Witts and Grundy are developing, plus with it being time for Gault to step up to the plate and show us why we've held onto him for three seasons, plus White (who, for all criticism directed against him, managed to get similar numbers in 2014 to what LeighBrown had in 2010), plus Karnezis who we all hope has his 2014 injury horrors behind him, plus of course Cloke. Plus Jono Marsh might even become a forward line option for us. Plenty of options there before we have to worry about playing Reid forward.
 

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Pricey97 said:
wish Clement had a part of the 2010 premiership, i have no doubt he still could have played great footy 3 years after he retired.
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He would of IF his Wife/Child did not get Cancers Sadly
 
76woodenspooners said:
A coach can only play the cards he's dealt.

Would you have rather have had Keeffe forward? C'mon we've seen what that looks like and that's an even worse move.

Agree that Reid should be played in the backline, and IMO he will play back ...

... Especially given that now that Witts and Grundy are developing, plus with it being time for Gault to step up to the plate and show us why we've held onto him for three seasons, plus White (who, for all criticism directed against him, managed to get similar numbers in 2014 to what LeighBrown had in 2010), plus Karnezis who we all hope has his 2014 injury horrors behind him, plus of course Cloke. Plus Jono Marsh might even become a forward line option for us. Plenty of options there before we have to worry about playing Reid forward.
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I don't think Gault will make it and doubt he will even play seniors again. Karnesis is not a Key forward and won't help take pressure of Cloke. Marsh may or may not make it and if he does it might be as a defender or as a winger. I think that Reid should stay back but we are very thin on forwards.

That is why I am surprised so many want to see Moore play back. He should be up forward with Cloke as soon as he is able to contribute and not get smashed physically.
 
THATSGOLD said:
Although Clement kicked 5 goals for us one day Malthouse knew he was our star CHB and left him there. Buckley took our star CHB back away ans refuses to put him back when he does get back on the park. I'll never understand the move out of defence just because Cloke was missing in the Brisbane game a few years ago. Just put him back Bucks!!!!
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Agreed. Well apart from the obvious that the reasons for moving Reid forward were a little more complex than you suggest ...
 
ace andy said:
I don't think Gault will make it and doubt he will even play seniors again.
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The fact he has been retained is a fair indication that he's a chance of playing.

Karnesis is not a Key forward and won't help take pressure of Cloke.
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If he's a marking forward who can kick goals then he can lead his man away from Cloke.

Marsh may or may not make it ...
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Sure, as with any player yet to get a regular gig

... and if he does it might be as a defender or as a winger.
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True ... Although with Moore currently being groomed for the backline and Scharenberg due back around mid-year it'll be tough for him to break into defence.

I think that Reid should stay back but we are very thin on forwards.
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We're certainly thinner than we are in the backline, but IMO building a cohesive defensive unit is the top priority for the team at the moment.
 
76woodenspooners said:
We're certainly thinner than we are in the backline, but IMO building a cohesive defensive unit is the top priority for the team at the moment.
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How so? Without counting Reid key position players in the backline that can play are capable best 22 Keeffe, Brown and Frost.

Key position forwards that are capable best 22 are Cloke, you could count White but he's been poor and would have played allot less games if our forward line wasn't so thin...
 
mike123 said:
How so? Without counting Reid key position players in the backline that can play are capable best 22 Keeffe, Brown and Frost.

Key position forwards that are capable best 22 are Cloke, you could count White but he's been poor and would have played allot less games if our forward line wasn't so thin...
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I think we agree? Our forward line is thinner than our backline?
 
Pricey97 said:
Heath Shaw was the best at running and carrying, he knew where to pick his spots perfectly, as far as pure footballing ability goes, he has been a top 5 back flanker since he debuted, he could shut down a man, be our kick in specialist and collect 20-30 touches a game with a good 80% of those kicks each week. criminally underrated, and how he hasnt been an AA is beyond me.
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Heater was on track for AA selection in 2011, when he was absolutely killing it. Then he got caught for betting, and missed the last 8 games. About the same time our red hot form started to go cold...
 
76woodenspooners said:
I think we agree? Our forward line is thinner than our backline?
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You can skimp abit in the forward and sneak wins, you can't put an inferior backline in and expect to come up trumps. That's the difference. You want 4 points your create the best backline possible.
 

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76woodenspooners said:
True ... Although with Moore currently being groomed for the backline and Scharenberg due back around mid-year it'll be tough for him to break into defence.
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I guess my main point came down to this. Why are we (if indeed we actually are) developing Moore as a defender when we have tonnes of potential options back as opposed to the forward line.
 
THATSGOLD said:
You can skimp abit in the forward and sneak wins, you can't put an inferior backline in and expect to come up trumps. That's the difference. You want 4 points your create the best backline possible.
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Thats not true, you want the four points you need a good midfield. If the midfield is good it makes the backline look allot better.
 
ace andy said:
I guess my main point came down to this. Why are we (if indeed we actually are) developing Moore as a defender when we have tonnes of potential options back as opposed to the forward line.
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2 simple reasons:
1. The club might already think that that will be the position that he is best suited for, and given thats its probably 1-2 years away before he will hold down a regular spot that will give us time to see what the futures of Brown (injuries), Reid (injuries & position) and Keefe will hold.
2. (and IMO more likely) - they think it's the best way to develop his game at an AFL level and give him the skills/exposure he is going to need to acquire if he is going to be a talented forward for the years ahead.
 
ace andy said:
I agree its stupid to do magical hypotheticals but I don't know how you could possibly suggest that Keeffe is on the same level as Frawley (Frawley is only about a year or two older). Frawley was All Australian when he was 21 much younger than Keeffe is now. I know who I would rather have. Frost hasn't been around long enough to know one way or the other.
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Frawley turned 22 in 2010, had about 20 more games experience at the time he won his AA, came from a footy background, and hasn't had an ACL. And he's done nothing since. Give me Keeffe and Frost any day, in fact we do get both of them for what Frawley would cost.
 
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THATSGOLD said:
Because we were in to Frawley in a huge way but when it came to the crunch we got cold feet and look who has ended up with him. The team that will most likely win a third flag in a row. It's no wonder either. That's the stuff dreams are made of.
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It matters not who you think we might have been into. Still ain't ever going to happen.
 

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mike123 said:
Thats not true, you want the four points you need a good midfield. If the midfield is good it makes the backline look allot better.
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This! We haven't had a dominant midfield since 2011. Lacked a winning ruckman. We got away with that (except gfs)during the early noughties with a strong midfield, won a gf with Jolly. Since then no winning ruck and midfield runners going backwards. We blame the forwards and backs?!
 
noideaatall said:
This! We haven't had a dominant midfield since 2011. Lacked a winning ruckman. We got away with that (except gfs)during the early noughties with a strong midfield, won a gf with Jolly. Since then no winning ruck and midfield runners going backwards. We blame the forwards and backs?!
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We probably blame the forwards and backs more because they get affected more by it. The ruck situation we just have to be patient with Witts and Grundy developing.
 
THATSGOLD said:
We've failed to land star players for nearly 5 years and had some reasonably handy players turn their back on the club.
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Tarrant and Krak said hello, have a great 2015 TG.

No import has won us a gf in my time. A good percentage of them have been simply a mistake. I don't see it as a relevant measuring stick.
 

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