Autopsy Suns loss & Vent Thread

[Sublime]

Sloane, Dangerfield and Stiffy were probably the only Adelaide players I considered hard men last season. They haven't turned their list over that much have they?

Scott Thompson is definitely a hard man, always winning his own footy. Ask Sevie J how hard he is.

 

[Sin City]

Scott Thompson is definitely a hard man, always winning his own footy. Ask Sevie J how hard he is.

He is, give you that one. Guess I was just trying to point out that they were such a soft team the last few years and through changing the coach but not changing the list too much they've become a very hard team to play against.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I'd be concentrating on the flip side if I were you.

If you believe that a team's collective confidence is destroyed by the pressure of a top 4 requirement, or by the suggestion that IF we make finals, we will be dangerous, imagine what offering for trade is going to do to the confidence of a player, you believe is the weakest of them all. And you are doing it to motivate him?

Maybe this is having the cake and eating it too?

I just think if you pump up his tyres, he gets ahead of himself, but if you show him you're fair dinkum about not accepting mediocre performances then it might motivate him. As I said though, if it doesn't and he requests a trade, I think we'd still get something good for him anyway, he's contracted so we have the bargaining power.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Tanks, I see your point, and I'm not trying to be dismissive. I think though, there is no more evidence to suggest that offering him up for trade will work than there is to suggest a new coach might develop that in him, or any other possibility. In reality we have no understanding of his psyche.
The issue with your point as I see it, is that there is the possibility that he waits until our of contract and then just walks because we don't respect him. I agree that a line needs to be drawn, but I'm not sure that is the way to do it.

Does he respect the club? Does he respect his coach or is he buddies with him? Does he respect the supporters? Does he respect his team mates?

Maybe he does, but there's little evidence to back it up imo.

He's been given, that's right given everything from this club. Drafted his buddy to make him feel more comfortable, put him straight into the leadership group, never dropped him when he clearly deserved it. He's been spoon fed, now it's time to make him hungry.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Sloane, Dangerfield and Stiffy were probably the only Adelaide players I considered hard men last season. They haven't turned their list over that much have they?

You don't understand, it's not about being a hard nut, Gibbs avoids contact at all costs. You don't have to be a hard nutcase to take a tackle here and there when required. People take it from one extreme to the other, just because he is being labelled as soft doesn't mean the only way to change is to turn into Robinson. Look at Murphy and Judd they are perfect examples, players with real talent that aren't afraid of contact and winning contested situations.

 

[Sin City]

You don't understand, it's not about being a hard nut, Gibbs avoids contact at all costs. You don't have to be a hard nutcase to take a tackle here and there when required. People take it from one extreme to the other, just because he is being labelled as soft doesn't mean the only way to change is to turn into Robinson. Look at Murphy and Judd they are perfect examples, players with real talent that aren't afraid of contact and winning contested situations.

Congrats, you've joined my ignore list

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You don't understand, it's not about being a hard nut, Gibbs avoids contact at all costs. You don't have to be a hard nutcase to take a tackle here and there when required.

Talking of extremes. You haven't seen him take a tackle? You haven't seen him get hit or hit someone? He does like to skate the periphery but it's not as though he has had no contact at all.

 

[Sin City]

Talking of extremes. You haven't seen him take a tackle? You haven't seen him get hit or hit someone? He does like to skate the periphery but it's not as though he has had no contact at all.

Pretty odd for a guy who has played shut down roles in pretty well every area of the ground hey.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Pretty odd for a guy who has played shut down roles in pretty well every area of the ground hey.

I remember him being lauded for smashing, I think, Pavlich in a tackle when Pavlich was playing in the midfield a few years back and Gibbs bundled him aggressively over the boundary. Stretching my memory but I think he did a job on Pavlich in one game,

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Talking of extremes. You haven't seen him take a tackle? You haven't seen him get hit or hit someone? He does like to skate the periphery but it's not as though he has had no contact at all.

Of course I've seen him take a tackle, but he needs to do it way more often. GC game he should've collected the ball, had he got tackled there was no prior opp, it would've been a ball up. Richmond game, swerves out and then tries to reach out and collect with his hands allowing Richmond to steal the ball back. Then there's all those times where there's the ball to be won and he allows the opposition players to pick it up first instead of just putting his head over it and trying to win it himself.

A few here and there do not make up for the norm. Just like 2 good games does not make up for 20 bad ones.

Again, he only ever plays well when the whole team is up and about, when they're down and need inspiration, he's nowhere to be found. Judd and McLean did it against the Suns, when the team was down they lifted and got us back into it, I can't recall too many games where Gibbs got us back into it, in fact I'm having trouble remembering one.

Even Garlett has done it this year, he was down on form for a while and when we played the Pies the second time, Collingwood were getting on top around the ground and Garlett fumbled in the center area, what did he do? He threw himself head first to collect the ball and win it back. That was an inspirational act and trust me from that act, the whole team lifted their intensity back up and we were able to take control of the game again.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

A few here and there do not make up for the norm. Just like 2 good games does not make up for 20 bad ones.

I think your version of a good game = a great game, and many of the 20 bad games are actually decent games.

He averages 21.7 disposals a game this year, with 12 games of 20+ and 2 of 30+. His disposal efficieny is 76%, down on usual but still decent. He is about 4 tackles per match which is fine, and has about 7 games of 100 points plus in dreamteam (if you buy into that stuff).

2 good games and 20 bad ones is labouring the point a little. The thing is the expectations are high so you consider them 20 bad games for what he can do, but an awful lot of players would be quite thrilled if they had a similar game.

This is where we stop thinking of Bryce Gibbs, the number 1 draft pick, and think of Bryce Gibbs, random footballer and judge him accordingly.

 

[Silvagnis]

Gold Coast vs Carlton
9 Lynch (GC)
7 Ablett (GC)
7 McLean (Carl)
3 Stanley (GC)
2 Scotland (Carl)
1 Dixon (GC)
1 Judd (Carl)

Does he respect the club? Does he respect his coach or is he buddies with him? Does he respect the supporters? Does he respect his team mates?

Maybe he does, but there's little evidence to back it up imo.

He's been given, that's right given everything from this club. Drafted his buddy to make him feel more comfortable, put him straight into the leadership group, never dropped him when he clearly deserved it. He's been spoon fed, now it's time to make him hungry.

Thinks_anot.

Are you that dense that we'd pick a player just to keep Gibbs happy?

Rookie draft was there Einstein.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

This is where we stop thinking of Bryce Gibbs, the number 1 draft pick, and think of Bryce Gibbs, random footballer and judge him accordingly.

Not my fault he said he was ready to step up. Sorry for expecting.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Gold Coast vs Carlton
9 Lynch (GC)
7 Ablett (GC)
7 McLean (Carl)
3 Stanley (GC)
2 Scotland (Carl)
1 Dixon (GC)
1 Judd (Carl)

Thinks_anot.

Are you that dense that we'd pick a player just to keep Gibbs happy?

Rookie draft was there Einstein.

Wasn't the sole reason, but I believe it played a part in it.

Also every chance that an Adelaide based club could've taken him later in the draft.

 

[JustaBattler]

Gibbs was built up by Ratten at the start of the year in very public fashion as about to have a break out year. What I suppose Carlton fans wanted to see from Gibbs is more. More thanks Bryce - we want more. With Carrazzo and Murph out - we wanted to see Bryce lift and DEMAND a place right in the heat of battle - right next to Judd - having a hard yakka crack and - having a break out year. All the criticism of Gibbs is about expectations.

ODN makes the wise call think about Gibbs NOT as a #1 pick NOT as a game winner - rather a highly skilled component of a team - NOT the match winner we were hoping for - but an important and valued player for what he does - not criticised for what he doesn't do.

a non argument - ODN wins the rationality argument easy.

 

[4evablues]

All the criticism of Gibbs is about expectations.

100% and we have held such high expectations of him. We have seen glimpses but need consistency from him.

I havent lost faith in him yet!

 

[The Toad]

If Gibbs played in the guts he would, in my most humble opinion, be a fricken superstar, but alas he plays in defense and does not get the chance to show us his silky skills. But be patient my friends, he will show us all just what he can do very soon.
Trust me.

 

[Sin City]

If Gibbs played in the guts he would, in my most humble opinion, be a fricken superstar, but alas he plays in defense and does not get the chance to show us his silky skills. But be patient my friends, he will show us all just what he can do very soon.
Trust me.

Exactly right, every time he plays midfield he shows how good he is in there but they throw him down back every time someone gets hurt. They need to have confidence that all those young defenders we've drafted can do the job and let Gibbs do what he does best.

 

[Donstuie]

You obviously weren't there then mate. It rained all friday night and Saturday morning until about 90 mins before the game you fool. Why make up s**t ?????

Speaking of making up shit.. I flew up friday morning and was there all weekend. Was beautiful all weekend, if not a little cool. The conditions were perfect.

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

Not my fault he said he was ready to step up. Sorry for expecting.

Tanks I am not going to go into long winded discussions on gibbs, you clearly have your opinions on him and thats fine, I just want to point out that what he said at the start of the year was that he was ready to step up and play in the midfield, ratts was also saying he would have a break out season in the midfield. These statements were on the assumption that our backline would not be depleted, and that guys like hendo, laidler, duigan etc would not miss such big chunks of the year.

Gibbs has been sacrificing his game to play in the back half filling gaps for seasons, and yet a few ordinary efforts and he is the worst bloke on the planet and should be dropped or traded.

I am not looking for an answer but ask yourself for the roles he has played, for whom should he be dropped for and for whom would we trade that could play his role when the shit hits the fan.

 

[The Toad]

Gibbs has been sacrificing his game to play in the back half filling gaps for seasons, and yet a few ordinary efforts and he is the worst bloke on the planet and should be dropped or traded.
.

Ed Zachary

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Tanks I am not going to go into long winded discussions on gibbs, you clearly have your opinions on him and thats fine, I just want to point out that what he said at the start of the year was that he was ready to step up and play in the midfield, ratts was also saying he would have a break out season in the midfield. These statements were on the assumption that our backline would not be depleted, and that guys like hendo, laidler, duigan etc would not miss such big chunks of the year.

Gibbs has been sacrificing his game to play in the back half filling gaps for seasons, and yet a few ordinary efforts and he is the worst bloke on the planet and should be dropped or traded.

I am not looking for an answer but ask yourself for the roles he has played, for whom should he be dropped for and for whom would we trade that could play his role when the shit hits the fan.

Sorry, but Murphy and Carrazzo out of the midfield at the same time too mate that's more class missing in that department than Laidler out. Midfield is the most important part of the team, if ever we needed a player to step up in the midfield it was this year. So, I don't buy that reason.

As for who would cover for him if we dropped him, doesn't matter. He wasn't playing that well back in defence anyway, drop him to get him to realise that he needs to do more. Sometimes to move forward, you need to take a step back first. For a guy of his talent he should be taking games by the scruff and showing leadership when we need him to, not go missing and gather cheap possessions in the back line.

Tell me which games has Bryce stood up in when the team was down? We saw Judd and McLean do it on Sat night. When have we seen Gibbs do it?

With the trade side of it, I would only accept a really high DP for him, I've said many times that I think Gibbs has the talent to be a top 15 AFL player but doesn't work hard enough for it and hasn't shown me any improvement in this department since he first played. If we can't get a high DP for him, then keep him. I would draft a mid who would put it all on the line for his club with decent skills and footy smarts, something you'd expect from a high DP. I'd also go after another of that type with our own first rounder.

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

Sorry, but Murphy and Carrazzo out of the midfield at the same time too mate that's more class missing in that department than Laidler out. Midfield is the most important part of the team, if ever we needed a player to step up in the midfield it was this year. So, I don't buy that reason.

As for who would cover for him if we dropped him, doesn't matter. He wasn't playing that well back in defence anyway, drop him to get him to realise that he needs to do more. Sometimes to move forward, you need to take a step back first. For a guy of his talent he should be taking games by the scruff and showing leadership when we need him to, not go missing and gather cheap possessions in the back line.

Tell me which games has Bryce stood up in when the team was down? We saw Judd and McLean do it on Sat night. When have we seen Gibbs do it?

With the trade side of it, I would only accept a really high DP for him, I've said many times that I think Gibbs has the talent to be a top 15 AFL player but doesn't work hard enough for it and hasn't shown me any improvement in this department since he first played. If we can't get a high DP for him, then keep him. I would draft a mid who would put it all on the line for his club with decent skills and footy smarts, something you'd expect from a high DP. I'd also go after another of that type with our own first rounder.

We dominated in the mid on saturday night, but were inaccurate with ball use and could not hit the side of a barn door. We got killed in defence on Saturday night Gold Coast scored way too easily.

Further to this it is not Gibbs choice to play in the back half, he is being played there by the coach, agreeing that we needed him to step up as a mid only further highlights to me that we have a problem with defensive structures, depth in this area or the coach (i actually like ratten, so this is contrary to previous posts I know).

To say we should drop him and have no better strategy when doing so would be asking for trouble, the way to deal with a Gibbs type character would be to challenge him, he strikes me as a player who is not challenged enough, he needs to be accountable, the only way to do this is to put him in the midfield and forward of centre, make him stop quality and win ball the other way, and then make him provide some smarts up forward and hit the score board.

To trade for an untried or proven speculative high draft pick could just land us another Shaun Grigg, Kane Lucas or Shaun Hampson, Gibbs is durable can play a magnitude of positions in the side and has the potential to be elite.

I don't expect for you to change your opinion and I see where you are coming from, he can be frustrating to watch especially in the instancw against Ablett last week, but I do not believe that your method for fixing the issue is the way to go.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

We dominated in the mid on saturday night, but were inaccurate with ball use and could not hit the side of a barn door. We got killed in defence on Saturday night Gold Coast scored way too easily.

I honestly don't get how this backs up your point in any way. If we were getting killed in defence with Gibbs there and the midfielders were off with their disposal, why couldn't Gibbs play in the midfield to improve our f50 entries? We were getting killed in defence anyway so I'm not sure how much help he was back there.

I also recall Ratts sending Walker back there, so what we need to put 2 players back there because one went down?

Further to this it is not Gibbs choice to play in the back half, he is being played there by the coach, agreeing that we needed him to step up as a mid only further highlights to me that we have a problem with defensive structures, depth in this area or the coach (i actually like ratten, so this is contrary to previous posts I know).

If he had more of an impact as a midfielder, than his spot in there would be more safe than it is. Truth is and Ratten knows this too, Gibbs doesn't win enough of the ball himself, he tends to sit behind packs and wait for a receive all the time. If there's a ground ball and he and an opposition player are running to it, he allows that opposition player to pick it up first more oftne than not. He also lacks the gut running ability, I've never seen him physically stuffed from effort.

To say we should drop him and have no better strategy when doing so would be asking for trouble, the way to deal with a Gibbs type character would be to challenge him, he strikes me as a player who is not challenged enough, he needs to be accountable, the only way to do this is to put him in the midfield and forward of centre, make him stop quality and win ball the other way, and then make him provide some smarts up forward and hit the score board.

Maybe, but don't you think by playing out of position and expecting him to still have an impact is not a big enough challenge?

I called for this move to be made at the start of the season too, but when the going gets tough, he goes missing and that is not a player that can be relied upon until he improves in that area.

To trade for an untried or proven speculative high draft pick could just land us another Shaun Grigg, Kane Lucas or Shaun Hampson, Gibbs is durable can play a magnitude of positions in the side and has the potential to be elite.

Or it could land us a Joel Selwood or a Patrick Dangerfield. Gibbs does have the potential but this is his 6th season and it has been his worst relative to his experience.

I don't expect for you to change your opinion and I see where you are coming from, he can be frustrating to watch especially in the instancw against Ablett last week, but I do not believe that your method for fixing the issue is the way to go.

Maybe it isn't, it'll never be a popular move, that's the point of dicussing it though, there are pros and cons to everything and by continuing to play him no matter how bad he plays is never going to improve him imo. Something needs to be done to make him realise that he has to change his ways, we can't drop him anymore the season's over and I personally don't want to have to watch him play that shit again next season after what we've been through this year. He needs to start next year with a completely new mindset about how he goes about his business on the field.

 

[Madblue]

Speaking of making up shit.. I flew up friday morning and was there all weekend. Was beautiful all weekend, if not a little cool. The conditions were perfect.

Don't know where you were but i was having lunch in the city and it poured right up until 90 mins before the game ?