Unsolved Taman Shud Case

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zedx

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True, the scratches could indicate a struggle. The fact that they're not extensive enough to be considered by the coroner as cause of death, might indicate that SM was already under the influence of the substance that the coroner thought caused his death. An absence of a wallet as well, might be cause to suspect that he was robbed whilst dying, or someone manhandled him to place him at the location where his corpse was found. The location of grazes on the knuckles probably don't support a counter argument that this injury is from interaction with the seawall or stairs as in a stumble or fall.
IMO it's most likely he was manhandled to his resting place and regained enough consciousness to realise what was up when they rifled his clothes to remove identifying possessions and fought back. But that's just a suspicion. Did police have reason to not suspect foul play?

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FYI -
Dr Abbott isn’t convinced that the Somerton Man was poisoned. “Pathologists of the time were trained in the Victorian era, and the tendency of the time was to suggest a poison if there was no apparent cause of death,” he said in a Reddit AMA. “Remember, no poison was detected. So we are on thin ground if we suggest it definitely was a poison.
Professor Cleland:
I have considered the circumstances disclosed in the evidence, and I came to the opinion, taking all the circumstance into account, that death was almost certainly not natural, and in all probability that some poison had been taken, with suicidal intent
 

Redacted

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FYI -
Dr Abbott isn’t convinced that the Somerton Man was poisoned. “Pathologists of the time were trained in the Victorian era, and the tendency of the time was to suggest a poison if there was no apparent cause of death,” he said in a Reddit AMA. “Remember, no poison was detected. So we are on thin ground if we suggest it definitely was a poison.
Professor Cleland:
I have considered the circumstances disclosed in the evidence, and I came to the opinion, taking all the circumstance into account, that death was almost certainly not natural, and in all probability that some poison had been taken, with suicidal intent
Maybe the testing done now will be able to confirm the presence of a toxic substance and what it was and probable dosage. I don't know if that's possible with the state of the remains at present and due to the embalming process used in 1949 but I'm sure that it would be 1 of the topics that SA Police would be discussing at this forensics meeting they talked about.

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Kurve

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Maybe the testing done now will be able to confirm the presence of a toxic substance and what it was and probable dosage. I don't know if that's possible with the state of the remains at present and due to the embalming process used in 1949 but I'm sure that it would be 1 of the topics that SA Police would be discussing at this forensics meeting they talked about.

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Traces might still be in his hair. If I was working on this, I'd be in the lab around the clock until we had everything we could take.
 

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zedx

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If you magnify this, you can actually see the indentations of other words and letters in the background. These dark letters have been rewritten over the original copy because it was originally written in very light pencil and difficult to see. I think it has been rewritten wrongly and thats why no one can decipher it. Thoughts??
 

johnymac1

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If you magnify this, you can actually see the indentations of other words and letters in the background. These dark letters have been rewritten over the original copy because it was originally written in very light pencil and difficult to see. I think it has been rewritten wrongly and thats why no one can decipher it. Thoughts??
certainly something going on through the lettering and at the very top
 

SquiffyRae

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That Adelaide Advertiser piece was very much a non-story for a clickbait headline and Linacre's comments could be aptly summed up with "no s**t Sherlock."

"We'll never know who he was, except if we have a close relative's DNA to compare to (saying nothing that the possibility we might have a close relative is the whole reason he was dug up in the first place)."

Of course he'll go unidentified if we don't get a hit in any database but at least by having his DNA in databases there's a chance for matches in the future
 

GreyCrow

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Most of the criminal forensic genealogy has used 4th cousins and found matches closer

ie the idea they wont be able to find a link is only due to laziness or lack of funds

DNA is taken
It is downloaded to gedmatch (example) - given the passage of time I would think 4th cousin links might be the most common line

Check matches ggggrandparents and find each child of each family

What could be determined quickly would be a geographical region of SM ancestry
 

Redacted

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I think Walter Ashton would be fairly easy to eliminate as Somerton Man via DNA as he has a lot of living descendants, and a lot of descendants from both his parents ancestors living in Australia being a descendant of first fleet convicts amongst two of his ancestral branches.



This picture is unconfirmed as being the Walter Ashton that went missing in 1948. It is a picture uploaded from ancestry purporting to be a Albert Walter Ashton from New Zealand. It might be him or It might be a cousin or something

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johnymac1

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he may have hidden numbers in his code. phone numbers or co-ordinates

if they are co-ordinates (26.12345 S ) for instance in up near the SA / NT border
if they are phone numbers, they may be disguised

26 389 2924
26 292 296 12 62
24 992 899 912
966 26 492 463 92


9 letters WRGOABABD
MLIAOI
11 letters WTBIMPANETP
x
11 leters MLIABOAIAQC
13 letters ITTMTSAMSTGAB
 

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DNA matching with another Somerton Man nominee, Charles Mikkelsen will be a bit harder to achieve as he only has living relatives through his half siblings descendants but it's doable. There'd be some 2nd cousin descendants on his father's side anyway.

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zedx

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he may have hidden numbers in his code. phone numbers or co-ordinates

if they are co-ordinates (26.12345 S ) for instance in up near the SA / NT border
if they are phone numbers, they may be disguised

26 389 2924
26 292 296 12 62
24 992 899 912
966 26 492 463 92


9 letters WRGOABABD
MLIAOI
11 letters WTBIMPANETP
x
11 leters MLIABOAIAQC
13 letters ITTMTSAMSTGAB
One of the news reports said there were actually two phone numbers, one being Jestyn's. The owner of the other phone number has never been spoken of.
 

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johnymac1

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he may have hidden numbers in his code. phone numbers or co-ordinates

if they are co-ordinates (26.12345 S ) for instance in up near the SA / NT border
if they are phone numbers, they may be disguised

26 389 2924
26 292 296 12 62
24 992 899 912
966 26 492 463 92


9 letters WRGOABABD
MLIAOI
11 letters WTBIMPANETP
x
11 leters MLIABOAIAQC
13 letters ITTMTSAMSTGAB
lots of work done on this subject. I should search older aticles before I jump the gun
This one from 2014-
"Micro writing" and Morse code

 

BonzaRam

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One of the news reports said there were actually two phone numbers, one being Jestyn's. The owner of the other phone number has never been spoken of.
Some interesting information here, with links to other information also.

3. There are many contradictory reports on how many telephone numbers written in The Rubaiyat. There was number of the nurse Jestyn. And there was also the phone number of a bank. As the book is lost it is difficult to confirm if there really were any other numbers or not.

 

zedx

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Some interesting information here, with links to other information also.

3. There are many contradictory reports on how many telephone numbers written in The Rubaiyat. There was number of the nurse Jestyn. And there was also the phone number of a bank. As the book is lost it is difficult to confirm if there really were any other numbers or not.

Thanks Bonza - there are soooooo many articles to read and sooooo many contradictions!! Its hard to work out what is fact and what is fiction whilst keeping in mind the era of the day were not pedantic with their evidence taking.
 

Gordon1552

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lots of work done on this subject. I should search older aticles before I jump the gun
This one from 2014-
"Micro writing" and Morse code

The code beneath the larger letters looks to be the 'Hill Cipher. It was an algebraic code from the 1930s. I understand there will be more posted on that soon.
 

Gordon1552

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lots of work done on this subject. I should search older aticles before I jump the gun
This one from 2014-
"Micro writing" and Morse code

Here's a close-up from the Verse 70 Book, it's from the title page, it blows up oversized in the viewer. You can see it clearly in most pf the letters the letter U in particular and the letter M:
Verse70_TS_31521_sml.jpg


Verse70_TS_31521_sml.jpg
 

Redacted

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We must keep in mind that all theories to date are based upon derivative assumptions.
Who wrote the message or the phone numbers in the book allegedly found by the chemist hasn't been established. The perceived Provenance of the piece of paper bearing Taman Shud and the book itself are only derivative assumptions.

We don't know who put the paper in the pocket, or the book in the car, or whose book it actually belonged to.
I already stated earlier in this forum, that more than just 1 theory is possible and that all theories are unsafe as they lack direct evidence supporting almost all the assumptions that under pin them.

The statements of people interviewed, such as Freeman, Harkness, Boxall etc el had been taken at face value and it appears without thorough scrutiny by SA Police, without much thought to foul play, even though there's evidence from day dot that should make any grown man suspect something was wrong with the scene.

Once the coroner went down the poisoning path, Alibis needed to be taken and scrutinized. Witnesses antecedents needed to be checked. Search warrants should've been obtained. All the evidence needed thorough review. Murder or Suicide, both are crimes. The case should've become a criminal matter from that point, unless there was evidence supporting accidental death. The ante should've gone up on resourcing of the investigation at that point.

To say that there were missed opportunities to make some headway in this case is an understatement. Witnesses are now deceased. Places are long passed being of any value to search for objects of any evidentiary connection.

What we do have, people have to make assumptions from to theorize a scenario and use that to search for SM. For example looking to decipher the messages in the book looking for clues to identify SM, based upon assumptions that SM put the slip in his own pocket, that the slip came from the book found by the chemist, and that the book was SMs, and that SM wrote the messages in the book.

Can you see the problem here?

Keep an open mind and be prepared if you make an assumption that you then base another assumption upon, that you consider different derivative assumptions and not place all your eggs in the one pathway.

One day we might have a name from what SA Police are doing now. But we might never know why or how SM came to be deceased upon the beach that morning. That might still be an unsolvable mystery.




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zedx

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We must keep in mind that all theories to date are based upon derivative assumptions.
Who wrote the message or the phone numbers in the book allegedly found by the chemist hasn't been established. The perceived Provenance of the piece of paper bearing Taman Shud and the book itself are only derivative assumptions.

We don't know who put the paper in the pocket, or the book in the car, or whose book it actually belonged to.
I already stated earlier in this forum, that more than just 1 theory is possible and that all theories are unsafe as they lack direct evidence supporting almost all the assumptions that under pin them.

The statements of people interviewed, such as Freeman, Harkness, Boxall etc el had been taken at face value and it appears without thorough scrutiny by SA Police, without much thought to foul play, even though there's evidence from day dot that should make any grown man suspect something was wrong with the scene.

Once the coroner went down the poisoning path, Alibis needed to be taken and scrutinized. Witnesses antecedents needed to be checked. Search warrants should've been obtained. All the evidence needed thorough review. Murder or Suicide, both are crimes. The case should've become a criminal matter from that point, unless there was evidence supporting accidental death. The ante should've gone up on resourcing of the investigation at that point.

To say that there were missed opportunities to make some headway in this case is an understatement. Witnesses are now deceased. Places are long passed being of any value to search for objects of any evidentiary connection.

What we do have, people have to make assumptions from to theorize a scenario and use that to search for SM. For example looking to decipher the messages in the book looking for clues to identify SM, based upon assumptions that SM put the slip in his own pocket, that the slip came from the book found by the chemist, and that the book was SMs, and that SM wrote the messages in the book.

Can you see the problem here?

Keep an open mind and be prepared if you make an assumption that you then base another assumption upon, that you consider different derivative assumptions and not place all your eggs in the one pathway.

One day we might have a name from what SA Police are doing now. But we might never know why or how SM came to be deceased upon the beach that morning. That might still be an unsolvable mystery.




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You are correct on so many points. DNA results will only be able to tell us (possibly) who he is and/or where he came from. That will not tell us how or why he died.
It has been reported that the small piece of paper with the words 'Tamam Shud' was 'proven' to have came from the book found in the car and that the brother of the car owner found it and put it in the cars glove box.
But again, with the amount of shoddy detective work can we believe this?
I personally like to go with the theory that he was a Russian ballet dancer who had an affair with Jestyn which produced a son and he was killed because he wanted to defect, BUT how and where could he have met Jestyn??
 

Redacted

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You are correct on so many points. DNA results will only be able to tell us (possibly) who he is and/or where he came from. That will not tell us how or why he died.
It has been reported that the small piece of paper with the words 'Tamam Shud' was 'proven' to have came from the book found in the car and that the brother of the car owner found it and put it in the cars glove box.
But again, with the amount of shoddy detective work can we believe this?
I personally like to go with the theory that he was a Russian ballet dancer who had an affair with Jestyn which produced a son and he was killed because he wanted to defect, BUT how and where could he have met Jestyn??
If "Jestyn" inscribed on Boxall's book is Jessie Harkness's non de plume, and was part of the verse 70 inscription and not added later....
Regardless what what we call her, Jessie Harkness we know was working in Sydney until her pregnancy got her turned out of nurse training. Then she went to Melbourne until she hooked up with Prosper and came to Adelaide.
So you only have 3 possible locations within the previous 3 years. Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide regardless of whether SM knocked her up or not. The last being the least likely.
But Jessica did say that a man enquiring about her being a nurse from Sydney by her neighbour could mean that he met her in Sydney, if the man that door knocked the neighbour's was SM

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zedx

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If "Jestyn" inscribed on Boxall's book is Jessie Harkness's non de plume, and was part of the verse 70 inscription and not added later....
Regardless what what we call her, Jessie Harkness we know was working in Sydney until her pregnancy got her turned out of nurse training. Then she went to Melbourne until she hooked up with Prosper and came to Adelaide.
So you only have 3 possible locations within the previous 3 years. Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide regardless of whether SM knocked her up or not. The last being the least likely.
But Jessica did say that a man enquiring about her being a nurse from Sydney by her neighbour could mean that he met her in Sydney, if the man that door knocked the neighbour's was SM

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So in this case scenario she most likely met SM in Sydney and became pregnant there. Hmmm still leaves a lot of questions.
 

Redacted

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So in this case scenario she most likely met SM in Sydney and became pregnant there. Hmmm still leaves a lot of questions.
Well, we are reasonably certain that she conceived in Sydney, barring being on a holiday somewhere.
But whether that came about from an event involving SM is debatable.
That theory relies upon whether you perceive physical similarities between photographs of SMs corpse and Robin without considering the same between Jessie and Robin.
If we are just considering Robin's parentage, then we are limited in knowledge of who Jessie was acquainted with around the time of conception. It is interesting nonetheless that upon SA Police interviewing her about the book that she immediately coughed up the name of Alf Boxall whom is someone we later learned was an acquaintance of hers at the very time of conception. Alf must had made an impression upon her as she named her son Robin which is phonetically similar to Alf's daughter Robyn, who hapchanced was delivered into the world at the hospital that Jessie was working in, and furthermore by sheer coincidence whilst Alf's kids were sent off for ballet lessons, so same Jessie sent her son off to ballet lessons.
So you can see a dilemma here in reliance upon SM being Robin's father, to discover who SM is.
And who wrote the phone number in the book? Because this is the only thing that linked them in the initial police investigation.
There's a lot of ifs. Which means there's a lot of room for alternatives.
There's an interesting proposition being put on another forum about parentage of Jessie, but whether it helps solve who SM is and why he traveled to Adelaide would not appear in BDM records to substantiate, so whether there is some relationship of some sort between Jessie, Prosper and SM might just well remain conjecture until DNA could support the theory. The tree as per BDM records doesn't have a missing person. But BDM records don't always record actual progenitors.
IMO, SMs identity was taken off him. Maybe deliberately, or maybe by someone robbing him of his wallet whilst he laid there dying. The opportunity to recover the wallet is probably long gone, but you never know. Just like the sailor's ID card, SM's wallet might be hidden under a floorboard somewhere just waiting for the new house owners to do a reno.

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