Current Wiembilla Shootings * The FBI arrests an Arizona man

[Kurve]

While the discussion of motives can't be avoided, please remember this isn't the place to promote support for conspiracy theories. Thanks.

 

[Lady O]

Facts, that previous checks occurred without issue, not sure why you’d dismiss that.

It is possible that they either weren't there or they chose not to engage with the officers. From those posts previously quoted written by Gareth, I got the idea that they were waiting for the Police to enter their locked gate to unleash. Perhaps they didn't jump over the gate previously?

 

[Kurve]

It is possible that they either weren't there or they chose not to engage with the officers. From those posts previously quoted written by Gareth, I got the idea that they were waiting for the Police to enter their locked gate to unleash. Perhaps they didn't jump over the gate previously?

Agree, it looks to me as if it's possible they were in there when the police attended prior.

I don't know if they had a landline there but they were definitely receivng messages from QPS and NSW Police because Gareth named every cop who made contact and gave their phone numbers out on one of his youtube videos.

That absolutely should have been a red flag, if any 'intelligence' had picked it up/and or the cops saw it.

 

[Kurve]

There was the 16 emails Nathaniel sent to the Education Department over two weeks in March 2022, after he'd quit his job and gone over the border in to Queensland. He must have been engaging with Mark Latham through this period as well because it was raised in Parliament in April 2022.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Were ALL previous visits free of contact? (Apologies if I missed it.)

Assuming they were, and I understand the resourcing, why not send a junior and senior officer only, in 1 car?
If there was minimal concern, why 4 officers? Were both cars assigned, or did 2 tag along because they were in the general area anyway?

4 officers turning up in 2 cars would raise more concern, regardless of the circumstances, than 2 in a single car.

I live in regional Vic, so understand this occurs on occasion.

But as with Kurve's previous post, if GT is listing all officers up to that point who have made contact (does this disprove no contact on previous visits - or did police leave a card or phone message, as they do in my area), were QPol aware of his rants?

My concern is mainly the actual reason for sending 4 police - if just the normal process, I get it. But they were aware NT had dumped weapons at the border - at least command were, not sure about 4 attending officers. A wiser head on site may have picked up on anything suspicious. Given they were in camo gear, was anything out of place or suspicious between the house and the road - sounds like the Trains had gone to some effort to set up a defence. Was the fire they lit premeditated, did they have car bodies or anything set up for cover. QPol were careful to go over the site for booby traps after the shoot out - did they mention if they found any?

 

[jason_recliner]

Not sure where this discussion is going. How is this anybody's fault other than those stains? They sent four cops on one of several checks. What difference would it have made if this time one of the cops was a bit older? Short of sending the TRG on every visit the outcome would most likely be the same.

 

[Lady O]

The constant thing I revert back to when you read/hear the paranoid delusions of these conspiracy theorist tools is this :

Gareth Train speaks of "Raytheon Learjets" flying over his house on surveillance missions.

A learjet 35 burns 197 gallons of avgas an hour. Avgas is $2 a litre. Then you have a crew of roughly 4-5 highly trained agents all earning decent money operating tracking and surveillance equipment worth millions of dollars. To watch some cooker with a God complex fry his own brain in the middle of the bush?

YOU'RE. NOT. THAT. SPECIAL.

I'm not familiar with Raytheon Learjets, so I googled it. I found an article that I guess is what you were talking about and I think I saw it posted on here earlier:

“Let’s get straight to the question that all you boys want answered,” an artificially lowered male voice says.


The voice tells them to ask another named police officer “what happens when you come up on old Daniel here and threaten to pull your pistols”. Gareth Train’s middle name is Daniel, and he appears to refer to himself using it throughout the videos.


The video is accompanied by a paranoid caption: “You attempt to abduct us using contractors. You attempt to intimidate and target us with your Raytheon Learjets and planes. You sent ‘covert’ assets out here to my place in the bush. So what is your play here? To have me and my wife murdered during a state police ‘welfare check’? You already tried that one.”


The account responded to a comment from an obscure American Christian conspiracy theory by referencing previous police interactions: “My phone number & front gate seem to have become popular. ‘Welfare checks’ aka state sponsored murder has started up again.”

So these Jets may possibly be from the RAAF Amberly base. We live in a rural area and for some reason frequently have these RAAF aircraft doing "wheelies" over the area. They do loops and repeat configurations at low altitude, and I suppose if I was a conspiracy theorist and/or had something to hide, I might also start to wonder if they were targeting us.

But he also talks about "You attempt to abduct us using contractors." and "So, what is your play here? To have me and my wife murdered during a state police ‘welfare check’? You already tried that one.”

 

[jason_recliner]

1. Raytheon doesn't manufacture Learjets (Raytheon is a weapon manufacturer).

2. Who cares what a delusional FRWNJ meth-head idiot said? (we already know this wasn't the first police visit)

 

[Lady O]

1. Raytheon doesn't manufacture Learjets (Raytheon is a weapon manufacturer).

2. Who cares what a delusional FRWNJ meth-head idiot said? (we already know this wasn't the first police visit)

1. I don't know anything about Raytheon, but here ya go from their website:
"Raytheon Australia currently delivers real-world simulation, testing and training services for the Royal Australian Navy and Australian Defence Force utilising two Raytheon-owned Learjets. The teaming agreement expands the current fleet of special mission aircraft available for delivery of EWTS."

2. Don't care? - don't bother reading here, skip my posts, or just go do something else.

Why are you always trying to tell others what they can say?

 

[jason_recliner]

1. I don't know anything about Raytheon, but here ya go from their website:
"Raytheon Australia currently delivers real-world simulation, testing and training services for the Royal Australian Navy and Australian Defence Force utilising two Raytheon-owned Learjets. The teaming agreement expands the current fleet of special mission aircraft available for delivery of EWTS."

2. Don't care? - don't bother reading here, skip my posts, or just go do something else.

Why are you always trying to tell others what they can say?

1. Yes. Can't understand why you'd bother posting that.

2. Why am I trying to tell others what they can say? Because sometimes it sounds like others are legitimising FRWNJ meth-head idiot content and blaming the Queensland police. To be clear, I'm not telling those people what they can or cannot say (I can't do that, obviously). I'm telling them that they are low nasty dumb morons for posting such content.

 

[Lady O]

1. Yes. Can't understand why you'd bother posting that.

2. Why am I trying to tell others what they can say? Because sometimes it sounds like others are legitimising FRWNJ meth-head idiot content and blaming the Queensland police. To be clear, I'm not telling those people what they can or cannot say (I can't do that, obviously). I'm telling them that they are low nasty dumb morons for posting such content.

Hmmm, you have a problem buddy!

 

[BFew]

Perhaps they didn't jump over the gate previously?

Perhaps when Police were there previously to arrest Nathaniel, Gareth Train had not yet made or published/posted any or most of their (alleged) videos that are floating around on the interwebs, or reported about in the media in one form or another.

 

[BFew]

There was the 16 emails Nathaniel sent to the Education Department over two weeks in March 2022, after he'd quit his job and gone over the border in to Queensland. He must have been engaging with Mark Latham through this period as well because it was raised in Parliament in April 2022.

Maybe the Mark Latham contact and why he contacted Latham, gave law enforcement some comfort, and a false sense of security, that Nathaniel Train would be very unlikely to (along with his Brother and ex-wife/sister-in-law) ambush and murder QLD Police and a neighbour.

 

[Kurve]

The anti vaxx anti mandate protestors in Canberra accused the government of using sonic weapons against them. I endured, in real life, an hours long rant about this off someone who was there. What I do know he got there at the protests, was covid.

This is apparently the weapon that this antivaxxer said they used against the protestors but which is used for communications, there's a image of it in Train's video and is widely shared by conspiracists.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Not sure where this discussion is going. How is this anybody's fault other than those stains? They sent four cops on one of several checks. What difference would it have made if this time one of the cops was a bit older? Short of sending the TRG on every visit the outcome would most likely be the same.

The question is could have QPOL mitigated some of what occurred if all information was available to the officers attending on the day.
They originally suggested it was a welfare check , then later added there were outstanding warrants too Which included firearms .

QPOL seemed ambivalent about Train dumping his car and guns which a local advised them of.

Fault will always lay with the Trains but could have QPOL , NSWPOL , ASIO handled the day better by sharing info and looking at people of concern more carefully.

 

[jason_recliner]

The question is could have QPOL mitigated some of what occurred if all information was available to the officers attending on the day.
They originally suggested it was a welfare check , then later added there were outstanding warrants too Which included firearms .

QPOL seemed ambivalent about Train dumping his car and guns which a local advised them of.

Fault will always lay with the Trains but could have QPOL , NSWPOL , ASIO handled the day better by sharing info and looking at people of concern more carefully.

Did you understand my post? Yes, Queensland police, TRG, AFP, ASIO, ASIS, CIA, SAC, Council for Foreign Relations could have managed the event better in retrospect.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Did you understand my post? Yes, Queensland police, TRG, AFP, ASIO, ASIS, CIA, SAC, Council for Foreign Relations could have managed the event better in retrospect.

Yes I did, as i said the Trains are the ones at fault.
Some posters here have raised concerns about the quality of law enforcement agencies which is a fair point to discuss.
That is why the discussion meanders away from the obvious point of wacky sov citizens. These people cannot be reasoned with and will only be stopped by effective law enforcement.

 

[Kurve]

Perhaps when Police were there previously to arrest Nathaniel, Gareth Train had not yet made or published/posted any or most of their (alleged) videos that are floating around on the interwebs, or reported about in the media in one form or another.

Most of the videos appear to have gone up towards the end of the year, or what's left of them to be found. The Trains or Gareth and Stacy on a hellfire and damnation rant, were recording and taking images from their Wiembilla property as early as April 2022, at least one of those stills was included in Gareth's video. Another still image appears as taken in November.

Of course they could have been monitoring the property remotely but that seems unlikely.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Not sure where this discussion is going. How is this anybody's fault other than those stains? They sent four cops on one of several checks. What difference would it have made if this time one of the cops was a bit older? Short of sending the TRG on every visit the outcome would most likely be the same.

Where did I say it was anyone's fault other than those 3 cookers? I'm just wondering what processes were followed? An experienced cop might have approached ir differently purely based on their experience. Or maybe not. I don't think my questions are invalid, and I'm not trying to absolve those 3 POS. But surely it's incumbent on QPol to at least review their decisions, if only to aid with future scenarios?

 

[Sir_Loin]

Where did I say it was anyone's fault other than those 3 cookers? I'm just wondering what processes were followed? An experienced cop might have approached ir differently purely based on their experience. Or maybe not. I don't think my questions are invalid, and I'm not trying to absolve those 3 POS. But surely it's incumbent on QPol to at least review their decisions, if only to aid with future scenarios?

They will. There will be an inquest. There will be plenty of lessons learned. Not sure how you plan for a calculated ambush though. Only way that can be thwarted is with advanced knowledge it’s coming and you send in the operators to counter it.

They clearly didn’t know they were walking into an ambush did they.

 

[geoffjennings79]

They will. There will be an inquest. There will be plenty of lessons learned. Not sure how you plan for a calculated ambush though. Only way that can be thwarted is with advanced knowledge it’s coming and you send in the operators to counter it.

They clearly didn’t know they were walking into an ambush did they.

No they didn't know. But as Kurve mentioned regarding GT's online posting listing officers he'd been in contact with, should they have been aware of the possibility he could escalate that into violence? I'm not suggesting anyone should have been expecting an ambush, but forewarned is forearmed to at least exercise a heightened degree of caution. Maybe they did that, and what happened was obviously beyond the realms of what anyone could have anticipated.

As you say, the inquest will identify that.

Anyway, I'm done posting about it.

My thoughts are with the 2 surviving officers and the families and friends of all 4 officers. The 2 who paid the ultimate price, and the 2 who I hope have all the support they need to deal with the trauma they experienced.

Best wishes and happy new year to all.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Is there any truth to the rumour that the police/government wanted them out of the property but they wouldn't sell? Something to do with a nearby gasfield and the plans involved laying pipes which would've travelled through their land. Would've dismissed it as rubbish, but I do remember the news a day or so after the event mentioning the property was going to be bought by the government and not put up for sale to the public etc...

 

[Royces Hart]

Is there any truth to the rumour that the police/government wanted them out of the property but they wouldn't sell? Something to do with a nearby gasfield and the plans involved laying pipes which would've travelled through their land. Would've dismissed it as rubbish, but I do remember the news a day or so after the event mentioning the property was going to be bought by the government and not put up for sale to the public etc...

The idea for the government to purchase it was raised by the Police Union, rather than the government itself.

 

[jason_recliner]

Is there any truth to the rumour that the police/government wanted them out of the property but they wouldn't sell? Something to do with a nearby gasfield and the plans involved laying pipes which would've travelled through their land. Would've dismissed it as rubbish, but I do remember the news a day or so after the event mentioning the property was going to be bought by the government and not put up for sale to the public etc...

FFS.

 

[Kurve]

Is there any truth to the rumour that the police/government wanted them out of the property but they wouldn't sell? Something to do with a nearby gasfield and the plans involved laying pipes which would've travelled through their land. Would've dismissed it as rubbish, but I do remember the news a day or so after the event mentioning the property was going to be bought by the government and not put up for sale to the public etc...

There's not a shred of evidence of that yet, not that I've found. Just a lot of accusations being thrown around by the usual suspects.

 

[Kurve]

There's another conspiracy theory floating around that the proof it was a false flag operation is in the PolAir audio/video recording we saw later. The suggestion is that it's been analyzed and it was all fake, there are no shooters on the property at all.

There are heaps of screenshots etc., but they haven't realised that they're two separate recordings. One is the audio from PolAir and the other (I'm pretty sure) is drone footage taken after the event. The PolAir audio recording is overlaid on top of the visual footage.