Tasmania set to apply for a provisional AFL licence (aiming to enter competition by 2025)

General Giant

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st kilda are averaging home crowds you would expect with there current membership number in the 45,000 range . Gws with 30,000 members you would expect to be averaging a lot more then 12,000 to home games you’re membership number compared to what you’re getting through the gate is massively out of kilter makes you wonder if the afl are fudging the figures a bit
Really? Let's look.

Membership is:
43k according to Google.

Avg Attendances is:
25k (so 20k less than memberships)

Amount of same city derbies that boost said crowds:
5

Hmmm.

Should worry about yourselves.
 

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abcde12345

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May 15, 2018
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Really? Let's look.

Membership is:
43k according to Google.

Avg Attendances is:
25k (so 20k less than memberships)

Amount of same city derbies that boost said crowds:
5

Hmmm.

Should worry about yourselves.
To further this point:

St Kilda averaged 22,708 against interstate teams across the 2019 season (ie games where they can't draw from the other local team's member pool).

GWS is also a 2 city team, and about 20% of its member base was from the ACT last season (according to the 25k members infographic update). Assuming similar membership trends this season, 20% of the 30k member base is based in the ACT, where there is obviously going to be very minimal relevance to Sydney attendance. Ignoring these figures, we are looking at 24k members.

Excluding Canberra and local derby games, GWS averages 11,882 attendees from a member base excluding Canberra based members of 24k. This is largely in line with the attendance rate per member of St Kilda when it isn't drawing from other local member bases.

This isn't even accounting for the fact that St Kilda is in a mature football market (you would expect higher conversion as there should be more full season members) compared to GWS based in a growth market (where you would expect there to be more 3 game members starting to get into the game).
 

Hawkk

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To further this point:

St Kilda averaged 22,708 against interstate teams across the 2019 season (ie games where they can't draw from the other local team's member pool).

GWS is also a 2 city team, and about 20% of its member base was from the ACT last season (according to the 25k members infographic update). Assuming similar membership trends this season, 20% of the 30k member base is based in the ACT, where there is obviously going to be very minimal relevance to Sydney attendance. Ignoring these figures, we are looking at 24k members.

Excluding Canberra and local derby games, GWS averages 11,882 attendees from a member base excluding Canberra based members of 24k. This is largely in line with the attendance rate per member of St Kilda when it isn't drawing from other local member bases.

This isn't even accounting for the fact that St Kilda is in a mature football market (you would expect higher conversion as there should be more full season members) compared to GWS based in a growth market (where you would expect there to be more 3 game members starting to get into the game).
Pretty much this...

That said, I think St Kilda is probably the only 'relocation target' that could have worked in Tasmania given it's joint Victorian / Tasmanian history
 

Tasmanian saint

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Apr 24, 2018
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To further this point:

St Kilda averaged 22,708 against interstate teams across the 2019 season (ie games where they can't draw from the other local team's member pool).

GWS is also a 2 city team, and about 20% of its member base was from the ACT last season (according to the 25k members infographic update). Assuming similar membership trends this season, 20% of the 30k member base is based in the ACT, where there is obviously going to be very minimal relevance to Sydney attendance. Ignoring these figures, we are looking at 24k members.

Excluding Canberra and local derby games, GWS averages 11,882 attendees from a member base excluding Canberra based members of 24k. This is largely in line with the attendance rate per member of St Kilda when it isn't drawing from other local member bases.

This isn't even accounting for the fact that St Kilda is in a mature football market (you would expect higher conversion as there should be more full season members) compared to GWS based in a growth market (where you would expect there to be more 3 game members starting to get into the game).
was only replying to someone from nsw who was questioning the numbers stated buy the Tasmania bid considering st kilda haven’t played finals for close to ten years to average 22,000 against interstate teams is a very good result we have shown in the past when we start winning games and playing finals our crowds increase rapidly we are far from the lowest supported vic club!
 

Tasmanian saint

Team Captain
Apr 24, 2018
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St Kilda
Really? Let's look.

Membership is:
43k according to Google.

Avg Attendances is:
25k (so 20k less than memberships)

Amount of same city derbies that boost said crowds:
5

Hmmm.

Should worry about yourselves.
Thanks for answering the question for me if you know basic maths compare the two our conversion rate is much better !
 

General Giant

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Thanks for answering the question for me if you know basic maths compare the two our conversion rate is much better !
Better? Yes and I would expect so for a club based in the heartland and 80 years older compared to the frontier and an 8 year old club.

Much better? Lol no.

Takes an extra 4 derbies to do it as well.
 

Hawkk

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Better? Yes and I would expect so for a club based in the heartland and 80 years older compared to the frontier and an 8 year old club.

Much better? Lol no.

Takes an extra 4 derbies to do it as well.
There actually 140 years older then the Giants but details

Interestingly the Saints are the only heart land club’s that receive distributions from the AFL comparable to the expansion teams. They are also, along with Port Adelaide, the only mature market club’s that have a 8 figure debt
 

Tasmanian saint

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Apr 24, 2018
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There actually 140 years older then the Giants but details

Interestingly the Saints are the only heart land club’s that receive distributions from the AFL comparable to the expansion teams. They are also, along with Port Adelaide, the only mature market club’s that have a 8 figure debt
If you didn’t follow hawthorn I might actually take your post seriously how much money have your club taken from the Tassie tax payer over the last 15 years take all that money away and you would not be in the strong financial position you currently are it’s no coincidence that it’s mostly hawk supporters that are the ones generally so against a Tasmanian team scared of loosing your cash cow hey !
 

NoobPie

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st kilda are averaging home crowds you would expect with there current membership number in the 45,000 range . Gws with 30,000 members you would expect to be averaging a lot more then 12,000 to home games you’re membership number compared to what you’re getting through the gate is massively out of kilter makes you wonder if the afl are fudging the figures a bit 😀
St Kilda average home crowds do you think might be inflated relative to the giants due to hosting big Melbourne clubs in Melbourne every second week?
 

The_Wookie

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St Kilda average home crowds do you think might be inflated relative to the giants due to hosting big Melbourne clubs in Melbourne every second week?
they dont. they might play one every second week, but they dont host a big melbourne club every second week. Half their home games are against non victorian sides, and all but 1 game are at Docklands, and that 1 game was in China.

Season 2019

R1 - Suns
R4 - Hawks
R6 - Crows
R8 - Eagles
R10 - Blues
R11 - Power (in China)
R14 - Lions
R15 - Tigers
R18 - Bulldogs
R19 - Demons
R21 - Dockers
 

Tasmanian saint

Team Captain
Apr 24, 2018
326
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General giant
St Kilda average home crowds do you think might be inflated relative to the giants due to hosting big Melbourne clubs in Melbourne every second week?
General giant was the one who is trying to compare the giants to st kilda I was just pointing out that having 30,000 members and averaging 12,000 to home games is a very low conversion and we played home games against Richmond,Carlton the only clubs you would classify as big were did you get the every 2nd week from?? no collinwoods no Essendon but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story
 

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General Giant

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General giant

General giant was the one who is trying to compare the giants to st kilda I was just pointing out that having 30,000 members and averaging 12,000 to home games is a very low conversion and we played home games against Richmond,Carlton the only clubs you would classify as big were did you get the every 2nd week from?? no collinwoods no Essendon but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story
You brought the giants membership into this.

I just pointed out a Saints fan should more worried about themselves considering the numbers and amount of Derbies they get in comparison. Let alone their age and traditional state location.
 

BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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An example of Tasmania's fanaticism for AF. After every Queenstown game "on the gravel", the jumpers (before they go in the washing machine) must first be hosed down- to remove the blood & gravel from them.

Also, some games in Tasmania are, occasionally, played in hail stones/ sprinkling of snow covered ground.

Ian Stewart (triple Brownlow Medallist , ex Queenstown player) 76 y.o., said " I still have scars", and it taught him to keep his feet/not fall over.

Some great historic video.

 
Last edited:

Walshawk

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If you didn’t follow hawthorn I might actually take your post seriously how much money have your club taken from the Tassie tax payer over the last 15 years take all that money away and you would not be in the strong financial position you currently are it’s no coincidence that it’s mostly hawk supporters that are the ones generally so against a Tasmanian team scared of loosing your cash cow hey !
No way. Reckon a slight majority of Hawks fans would love the see the back of Tassie. It is stifling our growth.
 

Tasmanian saint

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No way. Reckon a slight majority of Hawks fans would love the see the back of Tassie. It is stifling our growth.
Stifling your growth 😂 ok please leave then and play those 4 games against interstate teams in Melbourne that you will be lucky to break even on instead of making 3 million a year on like you currently do and kiss good buy the to the measly 10,000 members that you have down here yeah I can see why you really want out 😂
 

Johnny Bananas

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There actually 140 years older then the Giants but details

Interestingly the Saints are the only heart land club’s that receive distributions from the AFL comparable to the expansion teams. They are also, along with Port Adelaide, the only mature market club’s that have a 8 figure debt
Really when you consider how unsuccessful and poorly run the Saints have been since the VFL began, I think it's amazing that they have never even come close to doing a Fitzroy. Says a lot for their fanbase.

But yes, pretty silly to compare their membership and attendances to the Giants, considering age and location.
 

Hawkk

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If you didn’t follow hawthorn I might actually take your post seriously how much money have your club taken from the Tassie tax payer over the last 15 years take all that money away and you would not be in the strong financial position you currently are it’s no coincidence that it’s mostly hawk supporters that are the ones generally so against a Tasmanian team scared of loosing your cash cow hey !
Funny thing is, all the money we collect from Tasmania actually circulates through the AFL financial distributions...of which St Kilda is one of the three greatest beneficaries

So think of it as the great circle of AFL equalisation
 

Hawkk

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Stifling your growth 😂 ok please leave then and play those 4 games against interstate teams in Melbourne that you will be lucky to break even on instead of making 3 million a year on like you currently do and kiss good buy the to the measly 10,000 members that you have down here yeah I can see why you really want out 😂
Not quite, but I’ve already answered this...

Well actually they weren’t so myth debunked.

Hawthorn was debt free by 1999, had one of the largest Melb based memberships in Victoria by the time they moved games in 2001 and had made 10 consecutive profits and moved into Waverley by the time they stitched up the infamous 7/4 deal.

That deal was signed of course to make up the shortfall in games when the Saints left, who themselves took the NZ market from Hawthorn and butchered that too but that’s by the by.

Hawthorn themselves now admit that it is line ball whether they make more money extending the Tasmanian deal or bringing the games back to Melbourne (according to the Wilson article) so another myth debunked

If you look at the opponents Hawthorn play in Tasmania, the corresponding fixtures drew the following attendances for Melbourne based Hawthorn home games...

Fremantle x 6 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 43,583, 31,925)
GWS x 2 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 14,858, 17,906, 26,805)
Gold Coast x 5 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 31,331, 27,532, 28,011)
Brisbane x 10 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 35,492, 39,007)
Port Adelaide x 5 games in Tasmania (4 games in Melbourne inc 28,657, 27,532, 21,287, 33,527)
Adelaide x 2 in Tasmania (5 games in Melbourne inc 26,693, 37,470, 45,781, 33,524, 32,583)
West Coast x 3 games in Tasmania (6 games in Melbourne inc 31,892, 28,011, 42,977, 32,587, 50,023, 29,138)
Carlton x 2 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 33,182, 69,814)
St Kilda x 4 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 32,924, 42,453, 36,069)
W Bulldogs x 4 games in Tasmania (5 games in Melbourne inc 39,892, 48,080, 42,198, 47,474, 31,982)
N Melbourne x 5 games in Tasmania (4 games in Melbourne inc 36,174, 50,657, 42,218, 42,508)
Sydney x 1 game in Tasmania (9 games in Melbourne inc 48,398, 49,527, 44,484, 36,007, 54,894, 72,760, 63,319, 61,552, 52,181, 32,784)
Geelong x 1 game in Tasmania (10 games in Melbourne inc 69,584, 68,628, 78,578, 65,235, 76,300, 72,254, 73,584, 62,360, 59,598, 66,346)

Hawthorn pushing only low drawing games to Tasmania is a bit of a myth. If you look at games drawn in Melbourne (and Hawthorn has played every club in Melbourne based home games)

Geelong - 69,350 (1 game in Tasmania)
Sydney - 51,587 (1 game in Tasmania)
Carlton - 51,537 (2 games in Tasmania)
N Melbourne - 42,860 (5 games in Tasmania
W Bulldogs - 42,028 (4 games in Tasmania)
Fremantle - 37,754 (6 games in Tasmania)
Brisbane - 37,259 (10 games in Tasmania)
St Kilda - 37,149 (4 games in Tasmania)
West Coast - 35,783 (3 games in Tasmania)
Adelaide - 35,274 (5 games in Tasmania)
Gold Coast - 28,958 (5 games in Tasmania)
Port Adelaide - 27,752 (5 games in Tasmania
GWS - 19,898 (2 games in Tasmania)

There is a myth that Hawthorn have dumped their low drawing games in Tasmania. This has been a myth, the spread of home games is relatively even between Melbourne and York Park.

The notable exception is Brisbane which is bizarre (as the two games in Melbourne back in 2007 and 2012 both drew 35k plus)

Another myth is that these games would by and large be lost making games in Melbourne. Aside from the GWS fixtures the average across all opponents would be break even or profit drawing in Melbourne. In fact games against Geel, Syd, Carl, NM, WB, BL, St K and even WC and Adel would be money spinners in Melbourne.

On the numbers Fremantle would be too but I won’t be so cheeky to suggest that (the GF reply helped but the other fixture it should be noted did draw 32,000 in 2011)

I think the Tasmanian and Hawthorn relationship has run its course. Back in 2002-06 it was fantastic as it gave Tasmanian’s exposure to AFL football and Hawthorn a profit centre for games that drew 15,000 to 25,000. These were often scheduled at Docklands which was a terrible outcome for the club

Now that these games draw 27,000 to 37,000 in Melbourne (PA, GC, Adel, WC, Fremantle), increasingly at Docklands and with changes to stadium deal economics that profit centre is not as needed as it was in 2002
As for the $3m gap, if we left Tasmania, Hawthorn would practically have a clean jumper with no major sponsor. It would also be in a position to charge Melbourne based members more for membership on the basis of 36 per cent more content in the Melbourne market.

As for the 10,000 members (it’s actually 9,500) I’m sure they would lose some members but do St Kilda have members in Tasmania despite no longer playing games in Tasmania?

As it stands Hawthorn gets the 3rd lowest distribution from the AFL but is amongst the top 3 clubs taxed for luxury / revenue taxes so perhaps the best thing about leaving Tasmania would be to take a bit of AFL distribution from the Saints on the basis of fairness
 

Tasmanian saint

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Apr 24, 2018
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Really when you consider how unsuccessful and poorly run the Saints have been since the VFL began, I think it's amazing that they have never even come close to doing a Fitzroy. Says a lot for their fanbase.

But yes, pretty silly to compare their membership and attendances to the Giants, considering age and location.
Once again did you actually read my post ? It was general giant who actually brought up the comparison with st kilda
 

Tasmanian saint

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Apr 24, 2018
326
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St Kilda
Not quite, but I’ve already answered this...



As for the $3m gap, if we left Tasmania, Hawthorn would practically have a clean jumper with no major sponsor. It would also be in a position to charge Melbourne based members more for membership on the basis of 36 per cent more content in the Melbourne market.

As for the 10,000 members (it’s actually 9,500) I’m sure they would lose some members but do St Kilda have members in Tasmania despite no longer playing games in Tasmania?

As it stands Hawthorn gets the 3rd lowest distribution from the AFL but is amongst the top 3 clubs taxed for luxury / revenue taxes so perhaps the best thing about leaving Tasmania would be to take a bit of AFL distribution from the Saints on the basis of fairness
Question then why is it that Jeff Kennett is trying to negotiate a contract beyond 2021 does he not know these things that you do??
 

General Giant

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Well that works both ways then doesn’t it so you would have no problem with an audit being done on the giants membership numbers and some of there disputed crowd figures?
I Don't as we hear it often from traditionalists.

But if you are calling it for us then surely the Saints need a check up to.

See going in circles is boring rather than fun sonleta get back to discussing Tassie, who I want to have a side.
 

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