Opinion Team of the Decade (2000-2009)

[El_Scorcho]

Tredrea was fortunate that he peaked before the other gun CHFs of the decade reached their prime.

Fair enough, but he only peaked then because he got injured in the 2006 preseason and wasn't injury free again until this year, and he's still lost some of his explosiveness.

I'd suggest the rest of the CHFs were fortunate that Tredrea was injured as they were coming into their primes. He's still the best since Carey.

 

[Grimreepah]

Fair enough, but he only peaked then because he got injured in the 2006 preseason and wasn't injury free again until this year, and he's still lost some of his explosiveness. I'd suggest the rest of the CHFs were fortunate that Tredrea was injured as they were coming into their primes.

Tredrea isn't the only one to suffer from injuries.

He's still the best since Carey.

What makes him a better player than Brown?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Ugh, these days on bigfooty anything I write will be shot down, but in his prime: Marking, ground work, vision and skills. Both are champion players.

Skillfulness is not something that is thought much about when talking about CHFs, it's generally strength, marking, power etc etc etc. Tredrea in his prime (hell, probably now) is one of the most skillful players in our side. He can hit someone laces out with either foot from 60m. His work with the ball on the deck is like no other modern era gorilla CHF. I can't find stats but IIRC he was well ahead of any other key forward in goal assists over the first half of this decade. He created as many as he kicked.

What makes Brown a better player than Tredrea?

 

[Grimreepah]

What makes Brown a better player than Tredrea?

IMO:

- both have elite footskills off both feet in general play
- both are fairly reliable shots on goal but not exceptional like Lloyd (although Tredrea had a purple patch there in 2004)
- Tredrea a little quicker, although not a strength of either
- Brown's motor is as good as Riewoldt's, Tredrea's was not far behind in his day
- Tredrea much better at ground level in his day
- Both good marks on the lead
- Brown stronger and better one on one
- Brown better in wet weather
- Brown has more x factor, is better able to inspire the team and/or will the team to victory
- Brown much stronger leader

Tredrea was an elite player for about 5 years before injury cut him down, whereas Brown has been an elite player since 2003 and is still going. Brown's best is also better, evidenced by him leading the Brownlow in 2005 until injury cut him down. And while it isn't relevant to this thread, Brown is 4 years younger and presumably has more time to enhance his greatness. Tredrea has been a great player but I think a posse of vocal fans means that he tends to get over rated on BigFooty. Riewoldt and Brown are the stand out CHFs of the decade.

 

[AG]

IMO:

- both have elite footskills off both feet in general play
- both are fairly reliable shots on goal but not exceptional like Lloyd (although Tredrea had a purple patch there in 2004)
- Tredrea a little quicker, although not a strength of either
- Brown's motor is as good as Riewoldt's, Tredrea's was not far behind in his day
- Tredrea much better at ground level in his day
- Both good marks on the lead
- Brown stronger and better one on one
- Brown better in wet weather
- Brown has more x factor, is better able to inspire the team and/or will the team to victory
- Brown much stronger leader

I'd agree with most of that except the two bolded parts. Riewoldt can run all day and has a more athletic build allowing him to do so. In regards to the second point, Tredrea has pretty much been the main man for Port up forward this decade and has had to inspire the team a lot of times to get them across the line. Brown has had Bradshaw and Lynch to help him so Tredrea has had more pressure to perform.
Another reason why I think Tredrea shades Brown is that he has cleaner hands. Tredrea took more massive pack marks out in front because Brown tends to go for the chest mark too often. At this stage it's Tredrea just but Brown will probably dominate for another year or two and will retire the better player.

 

[Grimreepah]

In regards to the second point, Tredrea has pretty much been the main man for Port up forward this decade and has had to inspire the team a lot of times to get them across the line. Brown has had Bradshaw and Lynch to help him so Tredrea has had more pressure to perform.

I don't agree with this logic. The one year Brown was the main man he won the coleman.

With regard to the running, I will concede that Brown doesn't do as much running as he did in his early years.

 

[El_Scorcho]

IMO:

- both have elite footskills off both feet in general play
- both are fairly reliable shots on goal but not exceptional like Lloyd (although Tredrea had a purple patch there in 2004)
- Tredrea a little quicker, although not a strength of either
- Brown's motor is as good as Riewoldt's, Tredrea's was not far behind in his day
- Tredrea much better at ground level in his day
- Both good marks on the lead
- Brown stronger and better one on one
- Brown better in wet weather
- Brown has more x factor, is better able to inspire the team and/or will the team to victory
- Brown much stronger leader

I've highlighted the ones I disagree with. Number 1, neither player is ever really 1 on 1 are they, both men will usually have to outmark a couple of opponents at least. Tredrea had vice like hands, as does Brown. Both were/are able to dominate the forward 50 physically. Tredders in his prime was one of the strongest players in the AFL. I'm not giving Tredders the advantage here, but I wouldn't give Brown a clear cut advantage either.

Brown is a better leader, i'll give you that, one of the best captains in the AFL. However Tredrea led us to victory week in week out pre-injury, like Brown, was able to take games by the scruff of the neck and pull us to victory. He was our premiership captain as well.

I'm not sure that Tredders is/was quicker either. I think in his prime he was probably a touch more explosive, but his top speed has never been too flash. I'd suggest Brown would have him covered for speed, but as you say, not a strength for either.

We'll agree to disagree then I suppose on who is the better player.

I still think Tredders has the better credentials for the CHF of the decade spot.

 

[AG]

I don't agree with this logic. The one year Brown was the main year he won the coleman.

You said Brown has more x factor because he inspires his team to win more. Port have probably won more games this decade and it's normally gun midfielders or power forwards who win them for you. Tredrea is the only power forward they have really had so I would assume he has won more games for Port than Brown for Brisbane. We just disagree on the logic used to rate players or once again I'm probably falling into the trap of overrating Tredrea.

I wanted to stop getting into arguments about Tredrea because I probably come across as a Brown basher, so this will be my last post on it. They are both guns and if Brown has another year like he has over the past few then I will rate Brown the better player.

 

[tribey]

Brown's best is also better, evidenced by him leading the Brownlow in 2005 until injury cut him down.

Uhm? Tredrea's best (2004) saw him:

• Captain Port Adelaide to a Premiership.
• Win his second best and fairest of three (in a Premiership year, an accolade Nathan Buckley deems the highest individual award in football).
• Win his fourth straight All-Australian CHF gong, narrowly missing out on the captaincy to reigning Brownlow Medallist Mark Ricciuto.
• Win the inaugural AFL Coaches Association MVP.
• Enjoy precount favouritism for the Brownlow.

He was the best and most influential player that year. Hands down. Brown has never accomplished a season like that.

Tredrea has been a great player but I think a posse of vocal fans means that he tends to get over rated on BigFooty.

The majority of monkeys on here think he can't play let alone so much as whisper his name in the same breath as Brown and Riewoldt.

 

[tribey]

I don't agree with this logic. The one year Brown was the main man he won the coleman.

So in the one breath you reckon Tredrea was fortunate that Brown/Riewoldt/Pavlich weren't in their prime when he was winning AA guernseys galore, but then you're pointing out that Brown has a Coleman - in a year where 77 was enough to take home the medal.

Incidentally, Tredders booted 75+6 in 2004 but a couple of blokes named Gehrig and Lloyd booted 103 and 96 respectively.

Bet you don't think Brown was fortunate they were on hiatus in his Coleman year though, right?

 

[Grimreepah]

Uhm? Tredrea's best (2004) saw him:

• Captain Port Adelaide to a Premiership.
• Win his second best and fairest of three (in a Premiership year, an accolade Nathan Buckley deems the highest individual award in football).
• Win his fourth straight All-Australian CHF gong, narrowly missing out on the captaincy to reigning Brownlow Medallist Mark Ricciuto.
• Win the inaugural AFL Coaches Association MVP.
• Enjoy precount favouritism for the Brownlow.

He was the best and most influential player that year. Hands down. Brown has never accomplished a season like that.

I guess it depends over what time period you are judging it. If you are judging it over a year, which you seem to be doing despite your dot points, then Brown has had similar years statistically in 07 and 09. Brown averaged more possessions, more goals, and more Brownlow votes in both years.

But I would say Brown's form was better in 05 and 06 than 07 and 09, even though over the season he didn't have as good a year because of injury.

 

[Grimreepah]

So in the one breath you reckon Tredrea was fortunate that Brown/Riewoldt/Pavlich weren't in their prime when he was winning AA guernseys galore, but then you're pointing out that Brown has a Coleman - in a year where 77 was enough to take home the medal.

Incidentally, Tredders booted 75+6 in 2004 but a couple of blokes named Gehrig and Lloyd booted 103 and 96 respectively.

Bet you don't think Brown was fortunate they were on hiatus in his Coleman year though, right?

Please don't put words in my mouth. FWIW, yes, just as Tredrea was fortunate to pick up All Australian selections when the competition wasn't so hot, Brown was lucky to pick up a coleman for the same reason. Indeed Brown kicked one more goal this year, so it should be considered a better year even though he didn't win the medal.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with my point. I was highlighting that being the lone go to man isn't necessarily a disadvantage and that it may even be easier to look good when all the ball is directed towards that one player.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The whole "is it better to be a lone go to man who gets everything kicked to him, or have a second key forward to take some of the heat off of you" argument is a good one, but it's probably for another thread.

Tredrea had Thurstans as a foil, Brown has a gun in Bradshaw. Both men still get/got the vast majority of ball directed their way.

 

[100action]

B: Chris Johnson; Matthew Scarlett; Dustin Fletcher
HB: James Clement; Justin Leppitsch; Andrew McLeod
C: Simon Black; Michael Voss (vc); Nathan Buckley
HF: James Hird (c); Warren Tredrea; Mark Ricciuto
F: Brad Johnson; Matthew Lloyd; Jason Akermanis
R: Dean Cox; Chris Judd; Ben Cousins
I/C: Scott West; Matthew Pavlich; Nick Riewoldt; Adam Goodes

E: Nigel Lappin; Simon Goodwin; Gary Ablett jnr

Coach: Leigh Matthews

 

[tonynotte]

FB: Chris Johnson, Matthew Scarlett, James Clement
HB: Adam Goodes, Dustin Fletcher, Andrew McLeod
C: Simon Black, Michael Voss, Nathan Buckley
HF:Gary Ablett Jr, Nick Riewoldt, James Hird
FF: Jason Akermanis, Matthew Lloyd, Matthew Pavlich
Rucks: Dean Cox, Chris Judd, Ben Cousins
Interchange: Matthew Richardson, Robert Harvey, Warren Tredrea, Brad Johnson

Was unbelievably hard to pick and had to leave out some great players.

Can't believe some teams don't have Ablett either. Has been the premier player in the comp for 3 out of the 10 seasons.

Love the Bold!

 

[crownie]

Fair to say Brown, Riewoldt and Tredrea probably all have a fair case for CHF in this side. I'd go with Tredrea because IMHO his best was/is THE best of these 3 players. No bias involved what so ever.

sure.

 

[Bubba_5]

Probably West. Pavlich stays.

Yea 7 best and fairests and 2 Brownlow runner-ups (in an average side) isn't really enough to secure him in the the team of the decade in which he played his best footy. No one was better than Scotty West at the inside work. He was brilliant, give him some recognition.

 

[tonynotte]

B: Dustin Fletcher - Mathew Scarlett - Chris Johnson
HB: Andrew McLeod - Justin Lappish - James Clement
C: Nathan Buckley - Simon Black - Michael Voss ( vc )
HF: James Hird ( c ) - Jonathan Brown - Gary Ablett jnr
F: Brad Johnson - Matthew Lloyd - Jason Akermanis
R: Dean Cox - Chris Judd - Kane Cornes
I: Matthew Richardson - Matthew Pavlich - Ben Cousins - Adam Goodes
Coach: Leigh Matthews


I know K Cornes is going to cause controversy but he is the best genuine tagger of the decade imo. Perfect complement to the rest of the guys in the midfield/wings.

My 2 cents on the Brown vs Tredrea debate. I would rather Brown at his best in my team as appose to Tredrea at his best. Tredrea may have had more consistency of performance (even that is debateable) but Brown it is for me personally.

 

[AG]

Yea 7 best and fairests and 2 Brownlow runner-ups (in an average side) isn't really enough to secure him in the the team of the decade in which he played his best footy. No one was better than Scotty West at the inside work. He was brilliant, give him some recognition.

Lacks the class of the others and Black was is a better inside player. Someone has to miss out.

 

[100action]

Lacks the class of the others and Black was is a better inside player. Someone has to miss out.

i dont think its black thats the problem, west has done more than ablett this decade therefore Riewoldt in for ablett would be more ideal.

 

[AG]

i dont think its black thats the problem, west has done more than ablett this decade therefore Riewoldt in for ablett would be more ideal.

Maybe. I think Ablett should be in though considering he has been rated the best player in 3 of the 10 years. I'd rather put Buckley or another player to the HB flank and bring West in for Lappin.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

FB Fletcher Scarlett Wanganeen
HB McLeod Leppitsch Clement
C Cousins Buckley(VC) Voss
HF Hird(C) Tredrea J.Brown
FF B.Johnson Lloyd Akermanis
R Cox Judd Ablett Jr

Int: Pavlich, Goodes, Reiwoldt, Black

Apologies to West, I just could not fit him in, but then again I guess it is accurate as he has always played bridesmaid to the flashier types.

Backs were difficult to choose, as there were not too many dead certainties. Wanga, Clement and Leppitsch were all very good, but have not played the whole decade. Lappin was unlucky to miss, but McLeod has probably shown more over the journey. (although his last few years have been pure seagull work).

The centres are all class, again apologies to West and guys like Riccuito.

The forwards were tough, hard to fit in so many key forwards, so two are on the bench which is not the best structurally. Pav is more of a utility though. Small forwards were lacking, Aker gets the nod, plus Brad Johnson who has been very good for so long. Chapman could consider himself unlucky, but who could you drop for him.

 

[Bubba_5]

Lacks the class of the others and Black was is a better inside player. Someone has to miss out.

Go watch some tapes of Scotty West AG, he was a genius in close, and led the AFL disposal count for 3-4 years running I'm pretty sure. From 96-07 he was considered one of the best players in the comp despite playing in a largely unsuccessful team. That's gotta count for something.

 

[Bubba_5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV6iQC-py3w

Not enough class? My ass.

 

[Denty]

Backs: BLake, MScarlett, CEnright
HBacks: AMcLeod, C.Bolton, LHodge
Wing: AGoodes, NBuckley, GAblett JNR
HForwards: JHird, NRiewoldt, JAckermanis
Forwards: SBlack, BFevola, MRichardson
Rucks: DCox, MVoss, CJudd
Inter: BCousins, SMitchell, MLloyd, MRiccuito