Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[Lord Wilberforce]

I'd be pretty confident that there will be a full and frank assessment of the team's progress prior to any contract extension and I'd expect that to happen either post-season this year or mid 2016. What I don't expect is that the club will lkook at it like so many BF posters who simply say we're going poorly... sack Bucks.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during a review. That would be awesome! Real insight, not speculation.

 

[Mugavin]

Good clubs create environments where players buy in to the culture. The high turnover of senior players wanting out indicates the envrionment is unhealthy.

 

[PieNSauce]

Oh to be a fly on the wall during a review. That would be awesome! Real insight, not speculation.

Totally agree. You do get pretty sick of people making life changing calls based on pure speculation.

 

[PieNSauce]

Good clubs create environments where players buy in to the culture. The high turnover of senior players wanting out indicates the envrionment is unhealthy.

Good clubs also weed out players who choose not to buy in.

 

[ksardog]

Whatever, look at my posting history.

Believe it or not i hav better things to do than research your posting history.
If i took it the wrong way i alologise, but sarcasm is rife here and thats how i took it.

 

[PieBeast]

Good clubs also weed out players who choose not to buy in.

Glad to see we weeded out Josh Thomas and Lachie Keeffe

 

[Mugavin]

Good clubs also weed out players who choose not to buy in.

That is a bit of a fallacy. In 2013 Buckley and his football heads voted Beams into the leadership group.

You aren't weeding out anyone if a player vorted into your leadership group at one stage chooses to get up and leave a year later.

 

[PieNSauce]

Glad to see we weeded out Josh Thomas and Lachie Keeffe

I think the problem is that they bought in at a very high price!

 

[PieNSauce]

That is a bit of a fallacy. In 2013 Buckley and his football heads voted Beams into the leadership group.

You aren't weeding out anyone if a player vorted into your leadership group at one stage chooses to get up and leave a year later.

I don't think I ever indicated that Bucks was a mind-reader!

 

[MarkT2]

I just want to discuss the coaching situation, sick of rehashing 2010 and am happy for legitimate debate and am prepared to accept when evidence is shown to support others views.
Maybe I see thing in too much black and white but two weeks in?

We are two weeks into the 2015 H&A season. We are into the 4th year for Buckley and much longer for many of the decision makers. It's not like last weeks loss was an aberration. For some it backs up long running views and arguments. For some it is meaningless. I've said all along that this season needs to played out but if we lose more players at the end of it then the admin will have waited too long to pull the trigger. In fact they should be in a position to know the answer long before this season. Maybe they are and maybe they made the right call but the future will judge their past and that's how it generally is.

 

[PieNSauce]

We are two weeks into the 2015 H&A season. We are into the 4th year for Buckley and much longer for many of the decision makers. It's not like last weeks loss was an aberration. For some it backs up long running views and arguments. For some it is meaningless. I've said all along that this season needs to played out but if we lose more players at the end of it then the admin will have waited too long to pull the trigger. In fact they should be in a position to know the answer long before this season. Maybe they are and maybe they made the right call but the future will judge their past and that's how it generally is.

Very true. I would love for our administration to be able to read the future but as you so eloquently put it, their future will indeed judge their past. The problem with pre-empting such things as some here would like to do is that it provides no greater guarantees and almost certainly involves spending considerable time rebuilding or reconfiguring once again.

 

[MarkT2]

Good clubs also weed out players who choose not to buy in.

Good clubs get performance from all types and win premierships. Mathews didn't get rid of Aka until he and they passed his/their use-by. No one didn't buy in until what had worked to win a flag was reshaped into what has not thus far worked in any respect whatsoever to any degree at all.

 

[PieNSauce]

Good clubs get performance from all types and win premierships. Mathews didn't get rid of Aka until he and they passed his/their use-by. No one didn't buy in until what had worked to win a flag was reshaped into what has not thus far worked in any respect whatsoever to any degree at all.

I will admit that sometimes clubs tolerate players' idiosyncrasies just as Bucks did for a time with certain players at Collingwood. That doesn't always play out that well unfortunately. As far as buy in goes, it's always going to be easier to buy in to something that suits you regardless of its longer term affect on the team. Also, your expectation seems to be that what is being worked on should be bearing fruit now whilst I don't believe that is the club's expectation at all.

 

[MarkT2]

Very true. I would love for our administration to be able to read the future but as you so eloquently put it, their future will indeed judge their past. The problem with pre-empting such things as some here would like to do is that it provides no greater guarantees and almost certainly involves spending considerable time rebuilding or reconfiguring once again.

Sort of agree and sort of disagree. Obviously my reading of it is not as educated from the inside as those that make the calls I hope it is those and not he) but my reading is that the call is already belated and Buckley should have either been told to change to go at the end of 2012. In the end that is based on my take on evidence and can't be proven here and now but we elect and pay people to make calls in real time. Yes there is risk in that but there is risk in the alternative. Adelaide and The Dogs came to different answers to us. Port took a risk in appointing Primus and then sacking him and appointing Hinkley. We took a risk on Mathews and another one on Shaw. The we took a risk on re-signing MM in 2009. One isn't more risky they are just different options.

 

[MarkT2]

I will admit that sometimes clubs tolerate players' idiosyncrasies just as Bucks did for a time with certain players at Collingwood. That doesn't always play out that well unfortunately. As far as buy in goes, it's always going to be easier to buy in to something that suits you regardless of its longer term affect on the team. Also, your expectation seems to be that what is being worked on should be bearing fruit now whilst I don't believe that is the club's expectation at all.

Yes it is easier to buy into something that suits and it is easier to get people to buy into something that actually worked. To tell people that have achieved success they need to change to be successful is far more risky than the alternative. I have seen this in a professional context and IMO I've seen it play out at Collingwood.

 

[Maggie5]

Believe it or not i hav better things to do than research your posting history.
If i took it the wrong way i alologise, but sarcasm is rife here and thats how i took it.

Thank you, you are right but not meant as sarcasm, too much already.
Surprisingly I rarely use the word hate even in my private life so not sure why I used it, frustration?

 

[Maggie5]

I'd be pretty confident that there will be a full and frank assessment of the team's progress prior to any contract extension and I'd expect that to happen either post-season this year or mid 2016. What I don't expect is that the club will lkook at it like so many BF posters who simply say we're going poorly... sack Bucks.

Actually depending on our win/loss ratio and how we are playing, I think that the club will come out about half way through the season and make some comment. Like you, I think that two games in with two very valuable midfielders out, Witts, Reid, Caff yet to play and the issues with the two waiting on their B samples, not ready to ring the bell as yet.

 

[ksardog]

Thank you, you are right but not meant as sarcasm, too much already.
Surprisingly I rarely use the word hate even in my private life so not sure why I used it, frustration?

We are all frustrated for many different reasons. But remember, we all want the same thing, success. Many ways to go about getting success, thats all we are debating.

I dont use the word hate either, too easily thrown around, especially in here.

 

[jmac70]

I think I may give this thread a miss if Buckley's contract is extended mid 2016 and we aren't on a flag year.
Will well and truly exceed 111 pages.

We will win the 2018 premiership.

 

[Apex36]

I think we're kidding ourselves if we believe that our list could have won anything in 2012 or 2013. Hawthorn had seemingly already gone past us in late 2011, and it was only their choke and some individual brilliance from Dane Swan and Travis Cloke that got us onto the big stage. In 2012 and 2013, we were never going to be able to touch them at their best because their list was more talented and quite simply better.

I disagree about 2012. If we hadn't had 4 ACL's and a host of soft tissue injuries throughout the year, I believe we still could have challenged. We still made top 4 despite those setbacks.

2013 was a different story, injuries, age and list changes (both forced and unforced) meant that we were always going to be up against it, and yeah, there were a few clubs who's lists had gone beyond ours by that stage. 2012 was the final shot, and the club was right to identify that and try to rejuvenate the list imo. The club had been in a window since '07 in reality (if we had been able to knock the cats off in that prelim we would have pumped Port), so what's that? 6 years in a contending position? Definitely time to hit the draft hard and rejuvenate the list.

 

[Chameleon75]

We will win the 2018 premiership.

hope you're right, big call though

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

A couple of things, can't be bothered going back for the quotes.
Beams. Manger on SEN said about 80% family, 20% loss of mates and LT. The family wins. His brother made a comment on Twitter about family, so if it's laughable to think it was family, the family are liars.
Shaw. Typical case of the student who has had one teacher for a long time and is pissed off when a new one takes over. Can't handle the change, acts out.
Thomas. Enough said.
Lumumba. Reminds me of the character in Major League Two who finds greater spirituality and will tell anyone who will listen about his enlightenment. Amazing what a bit of success does. Club, player and teammates agree that it is the best move. Familiarity bred contempt.

 

[jmac70]

A couple of things, can't be bothered going back for the quotes.
Beams. Manger on SEN said about 80% family, 20% loss of mates and LT. The family wins. His brother made a comment on Twitter about family, so if it's laughable to think it was family, the family are liars.
Shaw. Typical case of the student who has had one teacher for a long time and is pissed off when a new one takes over. Can't handle the change, acts out.
Thomas. Enough said.
Lumumba. Reminds me of the character in Major League Two who finds greater spirituality and will tell anyone who will listen about his enlightenment. Amazing what a bit of success does. Club, player and teammates agree that it is the best move. Familiarity bred contempt.

Post of the year so far. Close the thread!

 

[Captivating]

I wish i could like u, but wayne arnold was such an areshole to kevin. Great show tho.

I just want to let it be known, i dont hate nathan buckley, i was watching him play at port adelaide, hoping , praying that he got to the pies. Loved him as a player, was basically our only shining light in the mid to late 90's. Never hav i said i wanted him sacked during the year either.

I just fear that he is lacking in areas as a coach, and i hav yet to see something to convince me otherwise. Doesnt mean i want our former coach back either, the day he left it was over for him to ever coach collingwood again.

People may say im negative or whatever, but i want this club, MY CLUB to be the best it can be. U may not like my opinion, by all means put me on ignore, but im saying them without any bias and just want the club to succeed and be the best, as we should strive to be.

There, NOW i definately hav to get back to work. Half the days already gone.

I thought it was Wayne Amold

 

[THATSGOLD]

We will win the 2018 premiership.

With Clarkson coaching us?