Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[jmac70]

If the team improves, Roos (or the mentor) would get the credit.

As long as we improve I don't get who gets the credit.

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere but I found Bucks' comment in yesterday's presser about (finally) "the right questions have been asked" really interesting.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's staggering that here we are, the day after our final match of a season and no one, and I mean no one (maybe apart from Ed and Bucks) knows exactly what's going on.

Everyone else is guessing.

And yes, that's what Caro, Robbo, Damo and all the other ******s in the media whose nicknames end with an "O" are doing, guessing.

I've got an opinion from two journos who work around the club for their publications/sites and they both think Bucks is gone, but even they admit they are guessing.

Strange situation, hopefully it's resolved quickly either way because potential recruits, both on and off field will be making up their minds about their future clubs very soon.

You raise fair points.

But on this, our club should only ever make decisions to the timing they see fit.

We should never run the agenda on media time tables. They don't care about us at all.
Just to get the most miserable story they can.

We as a society do demand quick answers, everything to just happen, I understand that,
But we as a club aren't a McDonald's drive through.

Make the decisions in good time. Measured decisions.

In our timing.

(I also think only Ed really knows what the club will do, he'll convey to the board when he does and they will just roll over, whatever decision is made. Nobody really knows more, unsure Eds even told Nathan exactly.)

 

[westozpie]

I think most of the so called Buckley lovers realise that he could be sacked and ok with that.
They in the end follow the club, not the person

100% correct. I ask those in the anti Bucks camp can you name one in the pro Buckley camp that has threatened to not renew their membership if Bucks is sacked, I will help you NONE!!. But we know there has been some in the anti Bucks camp who if he is kept will not renew. We know who you are.
So correct pro bucks most certainly pro Collingwood SOME haters not so

 

[Robroy22]

It will all come down to this ...

... what will give Collingwood the best chance of winning Premierships?

That's what Ed will be asking. That's what the board will be asking. It is Geoff Walsh who will providing the answers to that question.

-----

A few datapoints on Walsh ...

(1) It was Walsh who said back in 2009 that "Mick Malthouse is the right man to take Collingwood to its next Premiership".
(2) Walsh left in 2013, during Buckley's second year at the reins.
(3) Walsh returned at the start of this year, going into Buckley's sixth year at the reins.
(4) Walsh seems to know what he's doing - see (1)
(5) Walsh is in a position to compare (3) with (2). He has had time away from the club and is in a privileged position to assess how things have changed / progressed. Walsh will be able to see the influence that Eade, Balme, Allen, Hendy, etc, etc have had on the football department and Buckley's development.

Credit to Ed and the board where it's due ... (since the end of 2016 when Allen got banned) ... they've responded by putting the club in the best position to make the best decision about the football dept and the senior coach's future.

Whatever decision they make, it'll be an informed one.

-----

What is making the decision so contentious amongst supporters is that not everybody is using the same assessment.

(A) Some folks are asking themselves "Is Buckley a nice bloke?"

(B) Some folks are asking themselves "Does Buckley seem to know what he is doing / talking about?"

(C) Some folks are asking themselves "Is Buckley a proud Collingwood man?". And then applying/not applying the "Side by Side" response as appropriate.

(D) Some folks are asking themselves "Does Buckley have the players on side?"

(E) Some folks are asking themselves "Can Buckley win us Premierships?"

I reckon (and personally hope) that Ed and the board are going to be solely focused on (E). It's gong to be a tough decision to make (one way or the other)

-----

It is all set up for Buckley to go.

Collingwood have gone down the ladder every year for six years.

Buckley is at the end of his (third?) contract.

Nearly all of Buckley's assistants are at the end of their contracts.

The season is now over.

A football department review has been conducted by somebody who is eminently qualified, who is in a privileged position, and who is beyond reproach.

The opportunity to cut a club champion senior coach doesn't get any cleaner than this.

-----

What does Walsh think gives the Collingwood Football Club the best chance of winning Premierships?

Does Nathan Buckley have a role?

And if so, what will that role be?

And what will the rest of the football department look like?

What will the board decide?

The stage is set.

We wait ...

Great summation. Captured the facts and didn't resort to any emotion. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It will all come down to this ...

... what will give Collingwood the best chance of winning Premierships?

That's what Ed will be asking. That's what the board will be asking. It is Geoff Walsh who will providing the answers to that question.

-----

A few datapoints on Walsh ...

(1) It was Walsh who said back in 2009 that "Mick Malthouse is the right man to take Collingwood to its next Premiership".
(2) Walsh left in 2013, during Buckley's second year at the reins.
(3) Walsh returned at the start of this year, going into Buckley's sixth year at the reins.
(4) Walsh seems to know what he's doing - see (1)
(5) Walsh is in a position to compare (3) with (2). He has had time away from the club and is in a privileged position to assess how things have changed / progressed. Walsh will be able to see the influence that Eade, Balme, Allen, Hendy, etc, etc have had on the football department and Buckley's development.

Credit to Ed and the board where it's due ... (since the end of 2016 when Allen got banned) ... they've responded by putting the club in the best position to make the best decision about the football dept and the senior coach's future.

Whatever decision they make, it'll be an informed one.

-----

What is making the decision so contentious amongst supporters is that not everybody is using the same assessment.

(A) Some folks are asking themselves "Is Buckley a nice bloke?"

(B) Some folks are asking themselves "Does Buckley seem to know what he is doing / talking about?"

(C) Some folks are asking themselves "Is Buckley a proud Collingwood man?". And then applying/not applying the "Side by Side" response as appropriate.

(D) Some folks are asking themselves "Does Buckley have the players on side?"

(E) Some folks are asking themselves "Can Buckley win us Premierships?"

I reckon (and personally hope) that Ed and the board are going to be solely focused on (E). It's gong to be a tough decision to make (one way or the other)

-----

It is all set up for Buckley to go.

Collingwood have gone down the ladder every year for six years.

Buckley is at the end of his (third?) contract.

Nearly all of Buckley's assistants are at the end of their contracts.

The season is now over.

A football department review has been conducted by somebody who is eminently qualified, who is in a privileged position, and who is beyond reproach.

The opportunity to cut a club champion senior coach doesn't get any cleaner than this.

-----

What does Walsh think gives the Collingwood Football Club the best chance of winning Premierships?

Does Nathan Buckley have a role?

And if so, what will that role be?

And what will the rest of the football department look like?

What will the board decide?

The stage is set.

We wait ...

Fair points raised.

Walsh is a very respected operator.
I'd rather have him than say Allen.

I think a lot of the questions you raise come into play.

I do agree a lot of the focus must be on the question, about what gets us closer to winning a flag.

It's never that simple, because in everything so many factors come into play.

I also hope the club (read Ed) asks one other series of questions:

• F) do we have the requisite players to win a flag?! If answer no, then how do we bring those players into the Club, how long will that take, and can that group deliver a flag?

(Because perfection in every other area of football will NEVER EVER deliver a flag without the requisite player capability.)

But loved your post, very well articulated.
Focus must always be to reach premierships (plural).

 

[Saintly Viewed]

If the team improves, Roos (or the mentor) would get the credit.

Who actually cares who gets the credit. If we improve, we win flags, no difference to me who salivates for some kudos.

Bob Murphy for all I care.

 

[Countrypie]

Just a thought. Could Ed have said to Scotty Burns...."Go and get some experience with Clarko son, we'll have you back in 2-3 years"?

Crossed my mind

 

[Chameleon75]

If the team improves, Roos (or the mentor) would get the credit.

Head coach always gets the credit or the blame, comes with the title. Just look at Richmond and their Claytons head coach set up, dimma has been getting the credit.

 

[Countrypie]

We don't have much of a bunch to choose from:

Hawke - good PM and probably still respected
Keating - great orator - ended up being wound up by his own French clocks
Howard - effective PM - not that likeable "non-core promises" etc
Rudd - architect of NBN (thanks for nothing) and detested by his own party
Gillard - knifed Rudd - electorally toxic in the end and replaced by Rudd (again)
Abbott - what can you say? anyone who knights Prince Phillip deserves what they get
Turnbull - quite impressed with himself - Brendan Nelson described him as having "narcissistic personality disorder", made a further mess of the NBN
Shorten - FMD if he becomes PM

ie - exactly what is there to respect?

At least there not obviously bought like the Amercans

 

[76woodenspooners]

Folks,

This thread has degenerated a bit lately.

Please respect that fellow posters have a right to their opinions.

Whether someone wants Buckley kept or gone doesn't make them any more or less a Collingwood supporter.

Please keep it civil

Thanks

FYI Gone Critical Magpie Girl Vicky Park Anzacday

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Lately?

 

[Vicky Park]

Then there's the 80% of us who just follow on, no matter what the decision is, after an initial emotional response maybe.

Most of us surely fall into this camp. Whatever happens in the next week or so, there will be venting aplenty, then the distraction of trading, drafting, pre-season, 2018, and on it rolls. The relentless Collingwood machine. The lifecycle of a Pies fan.

 

[TKiL]

Most of us surely fall into this camp. Whatever happens in the next week or so, there will be venting aplenty, then the distraction of trading, drafting, pre-season, 2018, and on it rolls. The relentless Collingwood machine. The lifecycle of a Pies fan.

You forgot the women's comp

 

[Vicky Park]

You forgot the women's comp

No I didn't. I'll be following that just like I did last season. I was merely being a generalist, and not making assumptions about what most Pies fans will be doing. I'm also not naive. I'm aware the vast majority of fans don't give a toss about the AFLW.

 

[Gone Critical]

I mentioned a few days ago I had spoken to a 2 time premiership player who had recently sat at a dinner with someone from Collingwood who has an intimate knowledge of Walsh's football report. These 2 football people know each other well. Strong opinion given was Buckley will be reappointed for 2 seasons

 

[TKiL]

No I didn't. I'll be following that just like I did last season. I was merely being a generalist, and not making assumptions about what most Pies fans will be doing. I'm also not naive. I'm aware the vast majority of fans don't give a toss about the AFLW.

Fair call

 

[Matt_352]

I love Nathan and everything he has given to the club. Just think its time for someone else to have a go

 

[Venkman]

A few pages back I said that Nathan's family moments at the end of the game looked like a guy that doesn't know he's coaching again - I really don't read anything in to it, it's just how it looked. Really I don't think he knows if he'll be back or not and at the presser he seemed to think that the decision makers have all the right numbers so it seems like it could go either way.
For what it's worth I don't think they'll move him on unless we land a bigger fish - probably Clarkson or Roos. My great fear is that someone at Collingwood rates Lyon and thinks he's that man (ala the rumours a little while back). I love Collingwood but I won't support a Ross Lyon team - that's just not football.

 

[jmac70]

You forgot the women's comp

Not a fan?

 

[TKiL]

Not a fan?

No probs if women want to play footy. Not sure Cwood should have devoted resources to women's team when the men's team ain't setting the world on fire

 

[jmac70]

No probs if women want to play footy. Not sure Cwood should have devoted resources to women's team when the men's team ain't settling the world on fire

Completely separate resources. One has no bearing on the other.

 

[TKiL]

Completely separate resources. One has no bearing on the other.

Maybe but from my point of view it's an overall club focus thing

 

[jmac70]

Maybe but from my point of view it's an overall club focus thing

That doesn't make much sense.

 

[Queenie Hearts]

I love Nathan and everything he has given to the club. Just think its time for someone else to have a go

I am also concerned about the impact all the speculation about Bucks has had on the players. They have been carrying the burden of thinking their performance each week will result in their coach losing his job and many of them are very young - this impacts them personally but also must impact on field performance. I think they need a reset with someone unencumbered by the Ed/Bucks/MM history and to get back to the simplicity of playing the game they dreamt of as little boys at an elite level. If Bucks is reappointed and there is no improvement in win/loss, the media circus will start again next year regardless of the timeframe of any contract because of the history. It is not good for the players and not good for CFC. I was in the rooms post game and the players really needed the win but so did we all to have some optimism and release.

I would love for Bucks to be a great coach and achieve the ultimate success which eluded him as a player. My issue is that the 6 year record provides no evidence to support him staying on.

Many posters who do not want him to continue say he is a terrible coach but if he were so, the decision would be easy. I fear he is mediocre and he is being kept on because he is a nice guy and well liked by the media who see he has integrity under fire which is admirable. We all want him to be successful as a coach as he was such a club champion and his love for Collingwood is clear. Whilst he did some coaching moves that teased us into believing he could be better, I fear he is a serviceable and honest coach but not a creative and talented one who can bring us premierships. Clarkson often tries different things to innovate and get an edge or at least find out about what his list can do. Yesterday we finally saw some different moves but why in the last game after 6 years? Those moves reveal that we may have overemphasised the need for a KPF as Cox and Grundy can work rotating forward/ruck with small defensive forwards at their feet (Fasolo and Cox don't work in the same forward line as neither are defensive enough but Cox with Brown, Daicos, De Goey, Kirby, Steele at his feet can work) and Maynard in the midfield was fabulous. Moore swinging behind the ball was also great. With Howe we do not need Lever, in my view. Those moves lead me to think we need to draft a Daniel Wells type midfielder who could also play off halfback with speed and class. The changes revealed things and changed my mind on players but reinforced my view that Bucks is an ordinary and not a great coach as it all feels too little too late.

One of my main frustrations has been selection decisions under Bucks. How many games were put into a backline that could not dispose of the ball (gone now) or hard working , honest players with not much talent over the last 6 years (Blair, Smith) over more talented individuals? Or we went with 3 talls in the forward line against clubs with fast rebounding defenders who punished us with goals on the rebound. Why have we waited so long to see what some of our supposedly talented youngsters can do - see if Broomhead, Aish, Daicos, Brown, Scharenberg can play and make clear decisions on them. It showed we needed to go with talent and get games into them rather than persist with mediocre players with the right work ethic but poor disposal skills. Occasional flashes of brilliance in young talent with foot skills will become more frequent with experience and the chemistry of the group is important to ultimately succeed. Do we know who is in our best 22 yet?

I heard Bucks once say that on list management he had more say in who left the club whereas the list manager had more say in who came to the club. If that is the case, then I won't hold him accountable for the Mayne debacle but I do for Heater (which lead to Beams going). I believe that was about Bucks' inability to manage people rather than about what was best for CFC. We have never been able to fill that gap and it wasn't necessary.

I will go to the footy every week and support the Pies no matter what the outcome of this review. I will hope like crazy that Bucks will prove me wrong and we will be successful.

If I were a Board member, I would struggle to re-appoint and would want exit terms in the contract to protect the club. I would want assistants in place to mitigate risk of having to exit him early and also to bring in some innovative thinking and player development expertise.

We are Collingwood and we deserve the best for our club. We need a senior coach as good a coach as Nathan Buckley was as a player. Sadly, I think that will be someone else. I hope I am wrong.


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