The Academies - 2016

[dlanod]

It' and just picks going home, just coz a victorian leaves brisbane for victorian don't mean he's going home. Players leave clubs.There is a sort of usual attrition, calculate the cuber and then see whats leaving brisbane above and beyond that.

Then why are they disproportionately going to their home states? Using an updated Brisbane example, 11 went home. Two went to other states.

Missed Scully , though they had the magic sprinkle of Paul Roos, who lets them regenerate hope on not much with results. Watts was there for taking but people didnt want him. other's a few who left after a while 1st round picks no longer there actually quite few depending how you vie things.

I didn't miss Scully. We're discussing players going to their home state, not every single one of those changing clubs. He was Victorian, not from NSW.

Betts?

Not a first round pick.

Kruiser and Gibbs could have gone recently and there have are few moved on.

So we're even counting players that don't leave now? Seriously?

A bit of of richmond 1st round recruiting was just poor, Tambling, Jarrod Oaklieh-Nichols just there would not have been takers.

And...? BTW Tambling was traded. He didn't go to his home state either.

See, this is why discussing with you is pointless. We were discussing your and DanA's objections to the stats on first round picks leaving to their home state. Now your counter-examples involve non-first rounders, any player moving clubs, and even those that don't move clubs or are too rubbish to count. To think you were complaining about the problems with the previous statistics. You'd rather keep trying to move the goalposts instead of actually having a consistent discussion. You still haven't provided any examples for your previous claims either.

 

[pugsville]

Then why are they disproportionately going to their home states? Using an updated Brisbane example, 11 went home. Two went to other states.
I didn't miss Scully. We're discussing players going to their home state, not every single one of those changing clubs. He was Victorian, not from NSW.

Sigh Once more with feeling. Player leave. regardless of home started there is a level of players leaving clubs that that is normal. DO determine how much the Brisbane or any clubs experience is different , you have determine the average number players leaving, regardless of state of origin our whatever then compare that to the Brisbane experience and see how different the numbers.

If how grown and interstate players left at the exact same rate (which I am not saying ) then it would not matter which state players come form, if brisbane is disadvantaged by having so many players from others states, it's by the rate they leave being greater than homegrown players. So determine this difference you have togged the number of players leaving calculate a league average and then compare that to the Brisbane experience.

establish a baseline, determine the difference, try see if they are cp-relations with various factors. You know attack the problem systematically.

 

[BRAB]

Love your work dlanod.

 

[BloodySwan]

Sigh Once more with feeling. Player leave. regardless of home started there is a level of players leaving clubs that that is normal. DO determine how much the Brisbane or any clubs experience is different , you have determine the average number players leaving, regardless of state of origin our whatever then compare that to the Brisbane experience and see how different the numbers.

If how grown and interstate players left at the exact same rate (which I am not saying ) then it would not matter which state players come form, if brisbane is disadvantaged by having so many players from others states, it's by the rate they leave being greater than homegrown players. So determine this difference you have togged the number of players leaving calculate a league average and then compare that to the Brisbane experience.

establish a baseline, determine the difference, try see if they are cp-relations with various factors. You know attack the problem systematically.

The problem is that there aren't enough AFL grade players around to draft in each state. The academies work to fix that.....

 

[pugsville]

The problem is that there aren't enough AFL grade players around to draft in each state. The academies work to fix that.....

sure fine no one is arguing otherwise.
they represent a competitive advantage

I suggest we estimate how much and compare it to the disadvantage claimed as method of evaluating how fair they are.

 

[dlanod]

Sigh Once more with feeling. Player leave. regardless of home started there is a level of players leaving clubs that that is normal. DO determine how much the Brisbane or any clubs experience is different , you have determine the average number players leaving, regardless of state of origin our whatever then compare that to the Brisbane experience and see how different the numbers.

If how grown and interstate players left at the exact same rate (which I am not saying ) then it would not matter which state players come form, if brisbane is disadvantaged by having so many players from others states, it's by the rate they leave being greater than homegrown players. So determine this difference you have togged the number of players leaving calculate a league average and then compare that to the Brisbane experience.

establish a baseline, determine the difference, try see if they are cp-relations with various factors. You know attack the problem systematically.

Continuing to use Brisbane as the example and including all draftees to increase the sample size (not many first round Queenslanders have been drafted to Brisbane), no home grown players have demanded trades in the timeframe in question to my knowledge and three have come home - Beams, Bell and Raines. There's been a few that have been delisted and gotten brief lifelines like Hooper and Kiel and J. Tippett.

-11 first rounders to their home state. -a handful more later picks to their home state. +3 on Queenslanders moving to said basket case that everyone else is trying to get out of.

 

[BloodySwan]

sure fine no one is arguing otherwise.
they represent a competitive advantage

I suggest we estimate how much and compare it to the disadvantage claimed as method of evaluating how fair they are.

Alright compare it. You've got some great examples, the academies have been running for 6 years now so we have a good span of time to cover. Tell me how during this time Brisbane, gold coast, Sydney and GWS have had an advantage over the Victorian clubs. Weigh it against the home advantages Victorian clubs do. Estimate it

 

[pugsville]

Continuing to use Brisbane as the example and including all draftees to increase the sample size (not many first round Queenslanders have been drafted to Brisbane), no home grown players have demanded trades in the timeframe in question to my knowledge and three have come home - Beams, Bell and Raines. There's been a few that have been delisted and gotten brief lifelines like Hooper and Kiel and J. Tippett.

-11 first rounders to their home state. -a handful more later picks to their home state. +3 on Queenslanders moving to said basket case that everyone else is trying to get out of.

why the focus of first rounders which player was a better get Karnezis or Beams? It's about Talent retention does it matter which round or home grown or interstate.

 

[Kwality]

Alright compare it. You've got some great examples, the academies have been running for 6 years now so we have a good span of time to cover. Tell me how during this time Brisbane, gold coast, Sydney and GWS have had an advantage over the Victorian clubs. Weigh it against the home advantages Victorian clubs do. Estimate it

In the case of GWS Vic clubs have enough power to get changes in the Riverina, its a a ONE WAY STREET for most Vic clubs/fans.

 

[pugsville]

Alright compare it. You've got some great examples, the academies have been running for 6 years now so we have a good span of time to cover. Tell me how during this time Brisbane, gold coast, Sydney and GWS have had an advantage over the Victorian clubs. Weigh it against the home advantages Victorian clubs do. Estimate it

because I want agreement the metrics. if you just look at first round pick that move without any real parameters on it there isn't much difference competition wide. but that includes a lot of players moving at the end of the careers and a lot of fringe players being churned.

I suggest players who move having played less than 100 games , tying 100 is sort of fair reward for drafting,
and go on to at least 80 games elsewhere. being some sort of marker of being serious talent. I'm suggesting number but if you guys have suggestions.

why just go on round drafted plenty of players drafted in the first round are not worth, just coz you defat a guy pick 67 if he is a telnet and you lose him it's a loss.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Of course the Giants and Suns should have advantages. The AFL can't bring them into the comp and have them fail... it would be a massive waste of money. So naturally they would ensure they would be strong clubs - and the best way they can control this is theough draft picks. The academies is another way to assist both clubs to be strong as well as strengthen junior interest across the states.
With a strong presence in both NSW and QLD the AFL will make all that money back and some through future TV rights deals.
It's not rocket science.

So the competition should be fixed to make money.

It would be a funny suggestion if it wasn't true

 

[BloodySwan]

because I want agreement the metrics. if you just look at first round pick that move without any real parameters on it there isn't much difference competition wide. but that includes a lot of players moving at the end of the careers and a lot of fringe players being churned.

I suggest players who move having played less than 100 games , tying 100 is sort of fair reward for drafting,
and go on to at least 80 games elsewhere. being some sort of marker of being serious talent. I'm suggesting number but if you guys have suggestions.

why just go on round drafted plenty of players drafted in the first round are not worth, just coz you defat a guy pick 67 if he is a telnet and you lose him it's a loss.

You still haven't compared anything....

 

[Colonial]

You still haven't compared anything....

Nor will he. He want everyone else to do it even though he is the one bleeting about it.

I asked for his info he showed none. Moved on.

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[BloodySwan]

Nor will he. He want everyone else to do it even though he is the one bleeting about it.

I asked for his info he showed none. Moved on.

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I think he's about half this thread. Wouldn't be surprised if he was Eddie himself with the way he goes on about the academies

 

[Cleric]

The problem is that there aren't enough AFL grade players around to draft in each state. The academies work to fix that.....

I know. Both NSW and Qld produced more draftees than SA did year. The Crows have lost elite players to other clubs.
We need to get started on our academy Asap.

 

[Colonial]

I know. Both NSW and Qld produced more draftees than SA did year. The Crows have lost elite players to other clubs.
We need to get started on our academy Asap.

Agreed. All clubs should have them

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[BloodySwan]

I know. Both NSW and Qld produced more draftees than SA did year. The Crows have lost elite players to other clubs.
We need to get started on our academy Asap.

Only if you think that would help. The academies are working in NSW and QLD because it's attracting kids who wouldn't normally play AFL to the game. AFL is already the dominant sport in SA so I'd expect other actions would also be necessary.

 

[sr36]

I struggle to see how anyone can argue that the academy system is fair and equitable. Yes it is probably helping to attract more young players and increasing interest in the sport, but it's so obviously inequitable.

 

[Colonial]

I struggle to see how anyone can argue that the academy system is fair and equitable. Yes it is probably helping to attract more young players and increasing interest in the sport, but it's so obviously inequitable.

Right up there with the traditional benefits of the Victorians.

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[Giant Pete]

So the competition should be fixed to make money.

It would be a funny suggestion if it wasn't true

More like ensure some teams are setup so it's very hard for them to fail.

 

[BloodySwan]

I struggle to see how anyone can argue that the academy system is fair and equitable. Yes it is probably helping to attract more young players and increasing interest in the sport, but it's so obviously inequitable.

I fail to see how without the academies that the draft is equitable. What would you suggest to make it more equitable? Also taking into account of other previous attempts from the AFL

 

[briztoon]

I think he's about half this thread. Wouldn't be surprised if he was Eddie himself with the way he goes on about the academies

His spelling and grammar is to good to be Eddie.

 

[briztoon]

Only if you think that would help. The academies are working in NSW and QLD because it's attracting kids who wouldn't normally play AFL to the game. AFL is already the dominant sport in SA so I'd expect other actions would also be necessary.

I don't have the figures to back up my belief, but I do question this somewhat. The majority of the top academy talent that have been drafted by the Lions and Gold Coast come from families that have moved up to QLD from Victoria or W.A when their kids were young, but were old enough to have already "indoctrinated" in to AFL. I did some research a little while a go, and off the top of my head I know for a fact and can prove it if pushed that Bowes (vic), Scheer (w.a.) Allison (vic), Keays (vic), Hipwood (vic) and Andrews (vic) were all born and spent their early years in AFL states.

Now I am not claiming every member of our academies are from families with an AFL background, certainly Brisbane has produced some Brisbane born home grown players that are on our list (and North Melbourne's), but a good percentage of those who make it were already from families where AFL is the number one sport.

A simple correlation can be drawn from soccer, where many of the top Australian players come from families that emigrated to Australia from Europe, and are likely first generation Aussies, and were exposed to soccer as their families sport of choice.

p.s. Even Dayne and Claye Beams were born in Vic.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

More like ensure some teams are setup so it's very hard for them to fail.

Then let's not pretend it's a real competition, the dice are clearly loaded

 

[DanA]

So the competition should be fixed to make money.

It would be a funny suggestion if it wasn't true

Does Collinwood play so many games at the MCG for fairness or to make money?