The Ashes squad

[adelaidecrows]

The selectors are gutless. they cant make a tough decision and it will cost us. hussey, north and katich are jokes and the fact the selectors were too gutless to make a decision speaks volumes. they live on past glories and its a disgrace. we will get flogged in my opinion. hauritz was an easy target for them. Cricket Australia should be sending a please explain to the selectors and wonder what the hell is the Australian Cricket teams policy. if the policy is to look and play like a ****ed up england side in the early 90's we are succeeding.

The selectors seem scared to lose and hence making fatal decision based on image rather then trying to build for the future.

 

[Jimthegreat]

I said average record, because I thought people would get more upset if I said average player. Which he is in my opinion. He tries hard, but he just isn't international standard. I'm not saying Hauritz or Smith should be playing at all. They are all as average as each other.

Doherty is just the latest stop gap solution, while the selectors pray for someone to step up and make the decision for them. I have nothing against him, I just think he'll be another Casson.

Personally, I'd take Steve O'Keefe. Like the others, he isn't a world beater but he looks to be the best of an average lot.

O'Keefe actually bowled well in the "A" game. The spinners are as average as each other so I take the one who bats the best. A few of them can well.

North, Hussey, Siddle in the same side, equivalent of handing over the Ashes. Siddle in the same side Johnson mean no pressure on the batsmen. Hopefully it's Bollinger instead. Wish it was Harris, he's way ahead in Siddle IMO. If you had other bowlers that could apply consistent pressure that would help Johnson alot. North, Hussey always make that century to bluff the selectors to keep them in then fail the next few times when needed most. Could live with one in there if we had too but not both. Wish they had gone White instead of North but they had to go pick their squad before the "A" game was over.

Same side that let us down before both batting and bowling. Can see England being 5/150 then spending forever getting Broad, Swan etc...out and the Poms making 400 due to the inability of our bowlers to continue to apply throughout an innings, basically because they bowl dumb to the tail. Familiar story?!!! Or being on top at 2/170, the number 4 goes cheap then Hussey and North going in quick succession and we're suddenly 5/190 chasing that 400 undoing the usual good work of the top 3 or 4 bats. Another familiar story?!!! We bowl badly or the bats rash both when it counts most.

 

[Jimthegreat]

The selectors are gutless. they cant make a tough decision and it will cost us. hussey, north and katich are jokes and the fact the selectors were too gutless to make a decision speaks volumes. they live on past glories and its a disgrace. we will get flogged in my opinion. hauritz was an easy target for them. Cricket Australia should be sending a please explain to the selectors and wonder what the hell is the Australian Cricket teams policy. if the policy is to look and play like a ****ed up england side in the early 90's we are succeeding.

The selectors seem scared to lose and hence making fatal decision based on image rather then trying to build for the future.

I know exactly what you mean although a bit hard on Katich. He's been good. But I certainly agree with what you're saying.

 

[Blues_Man]

You can't always judge a bowler on strike rates though. .

This folks is how you attempt to lamely backpedal when you've just said something stupid .

Stats define a Cricket player..it's how they are judged....i'm afraid "the vibe" just does not cut it when judging players.

 

[Bomber Bears]

how the **** is Katich a joke? Averaged near 50 the last three years of test cricket. Been holding our top order together, outperforming say Ponting, Hussey and North comfortably.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Watto is good for a laugh hahah, just as funny when Clarkey hit him in the knee... Why are we giving BJ's to Flintoff?? He is a pom, we never have a nice word to say about poms during an Ashes summer..

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

How have I said something stupid? Saying Flintoff was a great bowler at his peak and a better bowler than Watson, Johnson and any of the current Australian bowlers is hardly an outlandish claim.

Actually, it is.

Stats are all well and good but they don't tell the whole story. Flintoff often bowled a lot better than his stats would suggest and he could turn matches with a brilliant spell and by taking big wickets. He also had a presence and aura about him, similar to Warne, that inspired his teammates and made them walk taller. No stats can tell you that.

But he didn't do it very often. As his stats suggest. Warne did.

You're basing aura on a few Ashes overs. Other Test sides around the world say hi.

Watson on the other hand is about as inspirational as a dead fish, he isn't nicknamed 'robot' for nothing and his artificial efforts to pump himself up or celebrate a wicket are more embarrassing than inspirational. He's improved a lot as a cricketer, I'll give him that, but he still isn't in Flintoff's class as a cricketer no matter what the stats say.

You're right, he's a class above Flintoff.

And, I mean, sue a guy for celebrating a wicket. How truly dumbfounding that you're bagging Watson for that yet lauding Freddie "come to me I am Jesus" Flintoff. I mean, holy shit.

Flintoff

Watson

Oh wow. You're fantastic - you can take two videos to create a bias.

How about instead I replace the Flintoff one with the drunken fatso falling out of a pedalo, and the Watson one with 6/33 against Pakistan?

I'll give you a project: did Flintoff EVER take 6 wickets in an innings?

I'll give you a second one: how has England gone since Flintoff retired? And what did Graeme Swann have to say about that?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Well Flintoff isn't playing this time and I'm not so one eyed that I can't appreciate good players from the opposition, even if they're Poms.

There would probably only be a handful of English players I've liked in my time watching cricket, Botham, Gower, Gough and Flintoff, all were entertaining players to watch and seemed like pretty good blokes off the field.

Oh I like Flintoff but now is not the time to be having a love fest over him... Also his celebration in the last Ashes he played were not much better than Watto's IMO.

 

[eddiesmith]

Ask any International batsman who they would rather face, they would probably at actually being asked the question

 

[Heisenberg_]

I can't believe what I am reading Flintoff had it all over Watson as a bowler, more important then reading the stats is the fact that Flintoffs career was ruined by injuries which does explain his stats.
I've no doubt this will be viewed as nothing but a excuse though.

 

[Cousin Jed]

And it has SFA to do with the Ashes squad.

Next topic please.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

You can't always judge a bowler on strike rates though. As Bomber Bears pointed out, Flintoff would often bowl well on a good line and length but just didn't get the wickets. The pressure he built up by restricting scoring often led to wickets at the other end though, much like McGrath did for Warney.

Johnson on the other hand would bowl a lot of inaccurate rubbish and get smashed around the park but then pull out the odd wicket taking ball, he also took quite a few wickets from bad balls as well.

Nothing illustrated this more than the Lords test in 2009 where Johnson's wayward bowling on the first day and Flintoff's brillant spell on the last day basically decided the test. Even if Flintoff didn't do much after that he still made a big contribution to England winning the series by winning that test for them.

Freddy didn't win that test for them. It always knocks me out how this myth has built up around that Lord's test. He had over 500, yes, that's right, 500 runs at his back in the second innings. He was gifted at least 2 of his wickets early on. He bowled well, but it was Anderson (who no-one ever seems to want to rate) and Onions who set up that match for them in the first innings. The English cause was helped enormously by our bowlers, Siddle as well as Johnson, being so much slop.

Some English journalists had the utter nerve to claim that it was like Willis in the turning point match in the 81 Ashes. I've never heard of someone's reputation coming so much to their aid like that in terms of the perception of a bowling stint. Bloody incredible.

Edit: One other thing. Onions is a fantastic bowler, what the hell has happened to him?

 

[Cleavy]

Edit: One other thing. Onions is a fantastic bowler, what the hell has happened to him?

back stress fractures. had surgery, out for 9 months

 

[Gak Attack]

And it has SFA to do with the Ashes squad.

Next topic please.

Sorry when I threw a little comment about Watson in I didn't expect it to turn into a flintoff v watto battle!

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Well I can only judge Flintoff on what I saw of him and that was mainly in Ashes tests. He had some good performances against other countries as well though.

But not good enough to have good stats. What don't you get about that?

I was hardly basing my judgement on a few Ashes overs, he was Man of the Series in the 2005 Ashes series which is the best and most competitive test series I've seen and he had a number of other match winning performances with bat and ball. Injury robbed him of a lot of cricket too when he was at his peak.

One series does not a career make.

Injury is not an excuse over 76 Tests, mate. A lot don't get a chance to play that many. Especially ones with his poor stats.

Big difference between Watson's over the top celebration where he showed a complete lack of respect to Gayle by mouthing off at him and Flintoff's celebration where he was just celebrating with the crowd and his teammates during a match winning spell of bowling.

Not at all. Flintoff's celebration was arrogant and pilloried for being so.

While Watson copped - deserved - criticism, it just shows how biased you are that you fail to mention the behaviour of Gayle in all of this. Pretty pathetic.

Those two videos just illustrate the difference between Flintoff and Watson as players, one is inspirational the other is embarassing.

I don't see you getting stuck into McGrath for mouthing off many, many times.

Ooops. You can't even maintain a consistent argument.

I don't see how the pedalo incident is relevant when it happened off the field. Also don't see how it is relevant whether he took 6 wickets or not, Watson taking 6 wickets against Pakistan would have to be taken with a grain of salt given their record of match fixing.

My God. Are you completely off your chops? The pedalo incident is COMPLETELY relevant. It broke team morale, shattered the English team and resulted in their complete humiliation at the tournament.

You're talking about "inspiration" and "teamsmanship" - Freddie's behaviour was utter shame.

You seriously are a joke. Your hatred for Watson overshadows any semblance of rationality in anything you've said.

Seriously, holy shit, I can't believe you'd be so blinkered as to claim the pedalo incident is irrelevant to discussing Flintoff.

Do you get it? Inspirational - 6/33. Embarrassing - pedalo. Just to prove how easy it is to find two videos of either figure that suit whatever spin you want to put on the thing. You're so biased.

As I said before, the big difference between Watson and Flintoff's celebrations is that Watson was abusing an opposition player, hence why he was fined, and it was just over the top and out of place given the fact Gayle had dominated Australia with the bat. Flintoff's celebration was just to the crowd and his teammates and his performance at the time justified it.

Already dealt with above. Flintoff was criticised, you just pretend it was okay because you're ridiculously biased. You also ignore Gayle's role.

By the way - can you please complete those tasks I set for you?

 

[Cousin Jed]

By the way - can you please complete those tasks I set for you?

No he won't be.

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Why not?

 

[mattymac]

flintoff was a pisshead which wrecked his potential. watto is a teetotaler which wrecks his top blokeness. when it comes to raw talent (with the ball, which is always more important for an "allrounder") flintoff wins hands down. when it comes to commitment watto wins hands down.

having said that i think we may be screwed. strauss looks a much better captain and we've got a bog ordinary middle order we've been carrying for 18 months plus no spinner and an unsettled back-from-injury attack. we'll be dependent on big individual performances, especially with the ball. maybe it'll be johnson's time to shine again. lets hope so.

 

[Munro_Mick]

Is it fair to assume that the national selectors having ordered Siddle to sit out the weekend and rest means that he'll be taking the new ball on Thursday (should Eng bat first) with Hilfy at the other end, and saving Johnson to first change (so he can't butcher the new ball as he tends to do).

Is Bollinger considered ready to go? after 1 grade game and a shortened shield match on a green top??

My tip, Bollinger and Smith to miss. Doherty just for 'variety', and Watson bowling first change with Johnson.

Although, as far as I'm concerned, you do NOT open the batting with an 'all-rounder' in Test cricket.

 

[legend166]

If Siddle plays ahead of Bollinger it's going to be a disaster.

Especially considering there's a big chance it will be a green top. With the right conditions, Bollinger can swing the ball away from the left hander at 140kmph. If he gets it right he'll trouble Strauss and Cook a lot, as they both have a tendancy to play away from their body early on (especially Cook). He'd be the perfect foil to open the bowling with Hilfenhaus.

Siddle does nothing. I can't think of any advantages Siddle has over Bollinger. For all the talk of Siddle being some massive work horse who can huff and puff and bowl long spells, it's no different to Bollinger....or Hilfenhaus, or even Johnson. It's not like we need a workhorse because our bowlers are Shoaib Akhtar's who can only bowl 4 over spells.

Would be a ridiculous selection.

 

[NAUGHT5]

If Siddle plays ahead of Bollinger it's going to be a disaster.

Especially considering there's a big chance it will be a green top. With the right conditions, Bollinger can swing the ball away from the left hander at 140kmph. If he gets it right he'll trouble Strauss and Cook a lot, as they both have a tendancy to play away from their body early on (especially Cook). He'd be the perfect foil to open the bowling with Hilfenhaus.

Siddle does nothing. I can't think of any advantages Siddle has over Bollinger. For all the talk of Siddle being some massive work horse who can huff and puff and bowl long spells, it's no different to Bollinger....or Hilfenhaus, or even Johnson. It's not like we need a workhorse because our bowlers are Shoaib Akhtar's who can only bowl 4 over spells.

Would be a ridiculous selection.

Bollinger's fitness being the only possible way Siddle can play IMO.
Peter Siddle is one of my favourite cricketers but Hilfy, Johnson and Bollinger are the 3 best quicks and should play.

 

[eddiesmith]

If Siddle plays ahead of Bollinger it's going to be a disaster.

Especially considering there's a big chance it will be a green top. With the right conditions, Bollinger can swing the ball away from the left hander at 140kmph. If he gets it right he'll trouble Strauss and Cook a lot, as they both have a tendancy to play away from their body early on (especially Cook). He'd be the perfect foil to open the bowling with Hilfenhaus.

Siddle does nothing. I can't think of any advantages Siddle has over Bollinger. For all the talk of Siddle being some massive work horse who can huff and puff and bowl long spells, it's no different to Bollinger....or Hilfenhaus, or even Johnson. It's not like we need a workhorse because our bowlers are Shoaib Akhtar's who can only bowl 4 over spells.

Would be a ridiculous selection.

They would probably be worried about Bollingers fitness and his complete failure to trouble the batsman on a bowlers paradise in the 2nd innings in his only FC game of the summer

 

[Selective Retention]

I'd still take half fit Bollinger over Siddle. Watson can pick up the slack.

 

[mattymac]

hard to see how siddle even walked back into the squad after a year out. and he was ordinary before his injury

looks like clarke will miss out. not coming good with his back.

 

[Dr Awkward]

I am just so happy Hauritz isn't playing. Bollinger if fit is a no-brainer selection.

Just staggered at how Hussey manages to get a game. This must be one of the easiest Australian teams to get into in a long time, especially for batsmen. If anybody showed a remote sense of sustained good form they would have been selected and even players that havn't showed anything have been selected.