The Association Football AFL Thread 4.0

[Jatz]

Can we wait a little bit before scrapping the F/S rule?

Thanks.

This, finally we're getting one or two worthwhile F/S's just as it's about to be flipped on it's head haha.

 

[SM]

Nothing out of doing so?? They gain players from other sports as Suns have done. Who do you think funds Suns program?

The great 2006 Socceroos had 11 players as for AIS scholarship holders.

In their wisdom they changed it so development of players between 17-19 became responsibility of A League clubs. Has worked a charm.

It has, the A League sales to overseas leagues have sky rocketed.

 

[Jatz]

How would you feel about altering it so it's at least state based academies SM ?

As in, instead of having a GC and Brisbane academy, it's just a QLD academy. Those two clubs still get the right to match bids but at least they're competing with each other to get access to that top end talent. Obviously you'd need to do the same with NSW.

Youngsters would still have the right pathways but it would be an AFL run state academy, rather than club run.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

How would you feel about altering it so it's at least state based academies SM ?

As in, instead of having a GC and Brisbane academy, it's just a QLD academy. Those two clubs still get the right to match bids but at least they're competing with each other to get access to that top end talent. Obviously you'd need to do the same with NSW.

Youngsters would still have the right pathways but it would be an AFL run state academy, rather than club run.

Can't see how that'd work. If any of the other 16 clubs bid on a player how is it decided which of the two gets the player?

 

[Jatz]

Can't see how that'd work. If any of the other 16 clubs bid on a player how is it decided which of the two gets the player?

It would work the same way as now, the northern clubs could match them.

If the two QLD clubs both bid, that's more interesting. Whoever offered the higher value of picks?

Fair question.

 

[SM]

How would you feel about altering it so it's at least state based academies SM ?

As in, instead of having a GC and Brisbane academy, it's just a QLD academy. Those two clubs still get the right to match bids but at least they're competing with each other to get access to that top end talent. Obviously you'd need to do the same with NSW.

Youngsters would still have the right pathways but it would be an AFL run state academy, rather than club run.

It's not about what I feel comfortable with, it's the reality of the market. There's no world where the AFL runs a state based Academy and equally no world where the Swans and Giants are just going to pool resources but then shrug and let the other one pick up the player on draft night. I've said it numerous times but the idea that the AFL has the ability to run any sort of academy program itself is farcical and the proof is in the pudding. There's a reason it moved to club based set ups.

The best course of action would be the one that Gero suggested which would be having additional loading for each additional player bid on in the same round, and also being more rigorous with the points system.

 

[SM]

It would work the same way as now, the northern clubs could match them.

If the two QLD clubs both bid, that's more interesting. Whoever offered the higher value of picks?

Fair question.

So then it becomes a bidding war? We already see clubs colluding on all these pick swaps so it could descend into a complete farce if that happened.

 

[Jatz]

So then it becomes a bidding war? We already see clubs colluding on all these pick swaps so it could descend into a complete farce if that happened.

Why would it descend into a complete farce? You think unrelated clubs would start favouring one of the QLD/NSW teams over the others?

 

[SM]

Why would it descend into a complete farce? You think unrelated clubs would start favouring one of the QLD/NSW teams over the others?

No the two NSW clubs could end up colluding, or the other club bidding in the first place would only do so to drive the price up even further. It becomes way more open to manipulation. How hard is it to just properly price picks for points?

 

[Jatz]

No the two NSW clubs could end up colluding, or the other club bidding in the first place would only do so to drive the price up even further. It becomes way more open to manipulation. How hard is it to just properly price picks for points?

Other clubs bidding to drive up the price happens now. Not as aggressively as it can/should but it does.

Seemingly very difficult. They clearly haven't achieved that yet.

I know the comparison between father sons vs academies (and I appreciate that there's not a perfect way to handle two things that aren't equal) but to me there seems a pretty big discrepancy between the two. No club has ever taken 4 F/S's in the first round (or in a single draft ever?). How many are the Suns now up to in the last 3 years? Over 10 I'm pretty sure.

 

[SM]

Other clubs bidding to drive up the price happens now. Not as aggressively as it can/should but it does.

Seemingly very difficult. They clearly haven't achieved that yet.

I know the comparison between father sons vs academies (and I appreciate that there's not a perfect way to handle two things that aren't equal) but to me there seems a pretty big discrepancy between the two. No club has ever taken 4 F/S's in the first round (or in a single draft ever?). How many are the Suns now up to in the last 3 years? Over 10 I'm pretty sure.

It could also be that their zones need to be reviewed, as it seems disproportionate towards them. But let's be real, the Suns have been shit for almost 20 years and have only just had an OK year. It's not as if they're dominating the comp as a result of these kids, and as Gero already pointed out it's not as if they're denying other clubs access to players as a result - these players wouldn't be elite talents if not for the academy.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Very on brand for us to take a touted junior who's dropped due to a serious injury.
Still targeting more outside speed and running ability it seems.

 

[Jatz]

Very on brand for us to take a touted junior who's dropped due to a serious injury.
Still targeting more outside speed and running ability it seems.

I've never really considered outside speed and running ability a weakness for Geelong.

 

[SM]

I see the Dogs got Carmichael. Almost like the Academies produce talent for the league.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Other clubs bidding to drive up the price happens now. Not as aggressively as it can/should but it does.

Seemingly very difficult. They clearly haven't achieved that yet.

I know the comparison between father sons vs academies (and I appreciate that there's not a perfect way to handle two things that aren't equal) but to me there seems a pretty big discrepancy between the two. No club has ever taken 4 F/S's in the first round (or in a single draft ever?). How many are the Suns now up to in the last 3 years? Over 10 I'm pretty sure.

Sometimes the bidding system works opposite. Everyone knew Daicos was the #1 player in the league, but he went 4th as some teams didn't want to make their new player seem like they arent the best in the draft.

 

[chef]

I see the Dogs got Carmichael. Almost like the Academies produce talent for the league.

Thank you for not being greedy like GC

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Two Holmes are better than 1.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Thank you for not being greedy like GC

TBH Sydney would have had to go into deficity in terms of points if they wanted to bid on him. They didn't have the value to bid at 21 with their picks

 

[SM]

TBH Sydney would have had to go into deficity in terms of points if they wanted to bid on him. They didn't have the value to bid at 21 with their picks

So good players get distributed to other clubs. Gee guess it's not the end of the world.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

11 people got a two day junket to Melbourne.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

So good players get distributed to other clubs. Gee guess it's not the end of the world.

But the top end guys don’t. That’s the point

 

[Bradesmaen]

11 people got a two day junket to Melbourne.

Despite the addition of the two teams (GWS and GC), there are less players being drafted now. The last 16 team draft had 74 players be taken (a couple of re-drafts/taken from other lists). Add two teams in and you have had in the last few years 59, 64, 71 and now 60.

Maybe the mid-season draft has added to that.

 

[SM]

But the top end guys don’t. That’s the point

He was taken in the top 30.

 

[SM]

Despite the addition of the two teams (GWS and GC), there are less players being drafted now. The last 16 team draft had 74 players be taken (a couple of re-drafts/taken from other lists). Add two teams in and you have had in the last few years 59, 64, 71 and now 60.

Maybe the mid-season draft has added to that.

How many rookie, spp and mid season draftees? Or do you seriously reckon everyone's just rocking shorter lists?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

He was taken in the top 30.

Doesn’t happen often where teams pass on academy that early. We did it with Sweid. This season is different as discount has been reduced.

Again though point of this discussion is it fair that a finalist gets four first round picks including two top five picks. Back to back gets another. Nowhere in any other sports that have a draft do you see this. The AFL knows this is a way to ensure success that’s why they don’t want an independent elite academies.