Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

That's conjecture on your part. If you don't know how scientists and mathematicians determine the odds of two fingerprints being identical, you have no basis to challenge it.

It is a hypothesis not fact. Identical twins have different fingerprints; so it being possible should be first considered, before analyzing the probability of it occurring. Remembering that every one of our fingers has different prints.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

I'll go with the first law of thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created or destroyed. Therefore, there was always something. One logical conclusion is that the Universe has always existed in some form or another.

Do you believe biblegod was created or did they randomly appear from nothing?

I believe god always existed. I do not believe the same for humans or nature.

 

[evolved2]

It is a hypothesis not fact. Identical twins have different fingerprints; so it being possible should be first considered, before analyzing the probability of it occurring. Remembering that every one of our fingers has different prints.

I doubt it's still at hypothesis level given we're using fingerprints to throw people in jail.

If it's a passion of yours, do the research and present your own scientific paper for publishing.

 

[evolved2]

I believe god always existed. I do not believe the same for humans or nature.

You claim that the Universe can only be explained by a creator, yet believe an infinitely more complex god wasn't created. That's fascinating, isn't it.

 

[Roylion]

I believe god always existed.

Purely on faith.

I do not believe the same for humans or nature.

"But of course any God capable of intelligently designing something as complex as DNA/protein replicating machine must have been at least as complex and organized as the machine itself. Far more so if we suppose him additionally capable of such advanced functions as listening to prayers and forgiving sins. To explain the origin of the DNA/protein machine by invoking a supernatural Designer is to explain precisely nothing, for it leaves unexplained the origin of the Designer. You have to say something like "God was always there", and if you allow yourself that kind of lazy way out, you might as well just say "DNA was always there", or "Life was always there", and be done with it."

Richard Dawkins: "The Blind Watchmaker" 1986

 

[Rosscoe 17]

You claim that the Universe can only be explained by a creator, yet believe an infinitely more complex god wasn't created. That's fascinating, isn't it.

I do believe that.

 

[evolved2]

I do believe that.

So be it. Do you acknowledge that your belief is illogical?

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Purely on faith.



"But of course any God capable of intelligently designing something as complex as DNA/protein replicating machine must have been at least as complex and organized as the machine itself. Far more so if we suppose him additionally capable of such advanced functions as listening to prayers and forgiving sins. To explain the origin of the DNA/protein machine by invoking a supernatural Designer is to explain precisely nothing, for it leaves unexplained the origin of the Designer. You have to say something like "God was always there", and if you allow yourself that kind of lazy way out, you might as well just say "DNA was always there", or "Life was always there", and be done with it."

Richard Dawkins: "The Blind Watchmaker" 1986

Human DNA would involve stardust. The Bible clearly states this.

Dawkins does not read the Bible enough to understand it. He makes a living out of cheap headlines; selling tickets to pre dispositioned thinkers. He does not offer any thought of significance.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

So be it. Do you acknowledge that your belief is illogical?

Ok this is becoming silly.

 

[evolved2]

Ok this is becoming silly.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your belief system is illogical? It's illogical whether you agree or not. I'm merely pointing out the truth.

If everything that exists requires a creator, your deity requires a creator.

The logical fallacy on which you base your faith is called 'special pleading'.

Special pleading - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your belief system is illogical? It's illogical whether you agree or not. I'm merely pointing out the truth.

If everything that exists requires a creator, your deity requires a creator.

The logical fallacy on which you base your faith is called 'special pleading'.

Special pleading - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This topic has always been about whether creation was designed vs whether it occurred randomnly. You cannot stay on point probably because of your bias.

 

[Roylion]

Human DNA would involve stardust. The Bible clearly states this.

Where?

Dawkins does not read the Bible enough to understand it. He makes a living out of cheap headlines; selling tickets to pre dispositioned thinkers. He does not offer any thought of significance.

Dawkins urges all to read the Bible, describing it as 'a great work of literature' and wants copies in every school in England.

 

[evolved2]

This topic has always been about whether creation was designed vs whether it occurred randomnly.

Define 'creation'.

You cannot stay on point probably because of your bias.

If logical thought is a form of bias, I'm guilty as charged.

 

[evolved2]

Where?


Dawkins urges all to read the Bible, describing it as 'a great work of literature' and wants copies in every school in England.

There's no greater advertisement for atheism than the bible.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your belief system is illogical? It's illogical whether you agree or not. I'm merely pointing out the truth.

If everything that exists requires a creator, your deity requires a creator.

The logical fallacy on which you base your faith is called 'special pleading'.

Special pleading - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's impossible to counter faith with logic. Faith has a "just because" answer for everything that logic just can't penetrate.

To question faith is to lose it, like I did years ago.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Where?


Dawkins urges all to read the Bible, describing it as 'a great work of literature' and wants copies in every school in England.

Dawkins makes blanket misrepresentations of the Bible as evidenced in my previous post.

 

[evolved2]

It's impossible to counter faith with logic. Faith has a "just because" answer for everything that logic just can't penetrate.

To question faith is to lose it, like I did years ago.

It's fascinating to see the process in action from intelligent and knowledgeable people refuse to recognise logical flaws in their thinking. I was once there too, brother.

 

[Roylion]

Dawkins makes blanket misrepresentations of the Bible as evidenced in my previous post.

Where?

Where does the Bible clearly say human DNA would involve stardust?

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Where?

Where does the Bible clearly say human DNA would involve stardust?

Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and to dust you will return

 

[Roylion]

Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and to dust you will return

DNA or deoxyribonucleic acid made up of four chemical nucleobases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T) which, in turn, are components of nucleotides which are organic compounds that contains carbon-hydrogen or carbon-carbon bonds.

All that Genesis 3:19 suggests is that the ancients observed human bodies decaying into the ground and noted that fact.

The Bible certainly does not "clearly" state that human DNA involves stardust, as you claimed.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

DNA or deoxyribonucleic acid made up of four chemical nucleobases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T) which, in turn, are components of nucleotides which are organic compounds that contains carbon-hydrogen or carbon-carbon bonds.

All that Genesis 3:19 suggests is that the ancients observed human bodies decaying into the ground and noted that fact.

The Bible certainly does not "clearly" state that human DNA involves stardust, as you claimed.

Stardust has a 9.5% composite of hydrogen

 

[Roylion]

Stardust has a 9.5% composite of hydrogen

Yes? So? And?

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and to dust you will return.


THE SCIENCE IS IN UNISON WITH THE WORD AND IS OVERWHELMING



Planetary scientist and stardust expert Dr Ashley King explains.
'It is totally 100% true: nearly all the elements in the human body were made in a star and many have come through several supernovas.'

Are we made of stardust?

Stars that go supernova are responsible for creating many of the elements of the periodic table, including those that make up the human body.

www.nhm.ac.uk

Stardust makes up 97 per cent of our bodies!

Researchers used spectroscopy to make measurements.

indianexpress.com

Ninety-seven per cent of the human body consists of stardust, claim scientists who have measured the distribution of essential elements of life in over 150,000 stars in the Milky Way galaxy. The six most common elements of life on Earth – including more than 97 per cent of the mass of a human body – are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulphur and phosphorus. It is an undeniable fact that most of the essential elements of life are made in stars, researchers said.

The new catalogue includes all of the “CHNOPS elements” -carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorous, and sulphur -known to be the building blocks of all life on Earth

Locally

Dr Karl: Yes, humans are stardust

The Joni Mitchell song “Woodstock” has the following, surprisingly accurate, lines: “We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion-year-old carbon”.

www.australiangeographic.com.au

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space​

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space | Laboratory News

Applying her natural curiosity and the input from a very impressive contact list of experts, rising star (pun intended) Sarah Begum explores the journey...

www.labnews.co.uk

 

[Roylion]

Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and to dust you will return.


THE SCIENCE IS IN UNISON WITH THE WORD AND IS OVERWHELMING



Planetary scientist and stardust expert Dr Ashley King explains.
'It is totally 100% true: nearly all the elements in the human body were made in a star and many have come through several supernovas.'

Are we made of stardust?

Stars that go supernova are responsible for creating many of the elements of the periodic table, including those that make up the human body.

www.nhm.ac.uk

View attachment 1752125

Stardust makes up 97 per cent of our bodies!

Researchers used spectroscopy to make measurements.

indianexpress.com

Ninety-seven per cent of the human body consists of stardust, claim scientists who have measured the distribution of essential elements of life in over 150,000 stars in the Milky Way galaxy. The six most common elements of life on Earth – including more than 97 per cent of the mass of a human body – are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulphur and phosphorus. It is an undeniable fact that most of the essential elements of life are made in stars, researchers said.

The new catalogue includes all of the “CHNOPS elements” -carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorous, and sulphur -known to be the building blocks of all life on Earth

Locally

Dr Karl: Yes, humans are stardust

The Joni Mitchell song “Woodstock” has the following, surprisingly accurate, lines: “We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion-year-old carbon”.

www.australiangeographic.com.au

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space​

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space | Laboratory News

Applying her natural curiosity and the input from a very impressive contact list of experts, rising star (pun intended) Sarah Begum explores the journey...

www.labnews.co.uk

I'm well aware of what stardust is and its contribution towards the composition of the planet.

Where does the Bible clearly say human DNA would involve stardust, as you claimed?

 

[evolved2]

Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and to dust you will return.


THE SCIENCE IS IN UNISON WITH THE WORD AND IS OVERWHELMING



Planetary scientist and stardust expert Dr Ashley King explains.
'It is totally 100% true: nearly all the elements in the human body were made in a star and many have come through several supernovas.'

Are we made of stardust?

Stars that go supernova are responsible for creating many of the elements of the periodic table, including those that make up the human body.

www.nhm.ac.uk

View attachment 1752125

Stardust makes up 97 per cent of our bodies!

Researchers used spectroscopy to make measurements.

indianexpress.com

Ninety-seven per cent of the human body consists of stardust, claim scientists who have measured the distribution of essential elements of life in over 150,000 stars in the Milky Way galaxy. The six most common elements of life on Earth – including more than 97 per cent of the mass of a human body – are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulphur and phosphorus. It is an undeniable fact that most of the essential elements of life are made in stars, researchers said.

The new catalogue includes all of the “CHNOPS elements” -carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorous, and sulphur -known to be the building blocks of all life on Earth

Locally

Dr Karl: Yes, humans are stardust

The Joni Mitchell song “Woodstock” has the following, surprisingly accurate, lines: “We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion-year-old carbon”.

www.australiangeographic.com.au

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space​

Stardust in our DNA - our journey through time and space | Laboratory News

Applying her natural curiosity and the input from a very impressive contact list of experts, rising star (pun intended) Sarah Begum explores the journey...

www.labnews.co.uk

When the bible is scientifically accurate, it's proof of its divine origins. When the bible is scientifically incorrect, those verses aren't to be interpreted literally.

That's Christian apologetics in a nutshell. You see what you want to see and ignore inconvenient parts.

As Roy said, the Genesis passage is just a basic observation from primitive men that humans are made from material found on Earth and they decompose to base molecules. There's nothing about stardust. You're reading things into the bible that aren't there.