Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Percy2257]

Can I just remind a few here that Port just came off a win against the reigning premiers, a team that some are rating higher than the hawks and brisbane great teams. This was not a fluke win against the tigers, there was no way that they were not taking Port seriously, the Tiges were up for a fight and gave it their best shot- and lost. That tells me that Port is a very good side- possibly great. They also finished minor premiers in 2020.

We wasted a lot of chances, and, had they been taken, the result would have been closer. This was clearly a better side that beat us, but it was not a thrashing, although, given the build up we all gave it, it was a very disappointing result; Calls to change coaches and poison pen articles like Maclure are predictable knee jerk reactions. So far we have done what we needed to do against the GCS and Dockers. We were never expected to beat either the tigers or Port. the next month will tell us more, but in the meantime, I will be giving the players and DT my support

You are missing the point. The criticism of Carlton, which is all over the media, is the WAY that Carlton played. Despite its many opportunities the team consistently lacked focus, confidence, skill and effectiveness. There is real cause for concern.

 

[MissBlueBagger93]

Very good point. I really did hate the action.

I didn't like it either. And as much as the plow laughin biz kills the soul, I'll take it over some of the consistent on field rat acts / sook meltdowns by some of the opposition "superstars" on a near weekly basis that never warrant as much scrutiny mid/post game. Ones that overstep the vaunted 'mongrel' aspect some fans desire, ones that would upset me more than I could imagine comparatively. There are certain players for other big clubs whose actions would get me close to actively disliking them if they played for Carlton, though I can't seem to pick any like em from our club. A good thing? Perhaps too one-eyed, but bloody hell didn't get the chance to choose the club i support!

 

[Gw2_James]

Kane cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

and lloyd not fans of sps it seems. Cornes said sps shouldnt be played as a defender as hes basically no good (later on shows footage to show his point), lloyd said he shouldn't be in midfield either, not good enough/cant trust him in the midfield i think he said?

They also went all in on dow/obrien, questioned our recruiting.

Then later said it was because we haven't given them enough games or something, that segment was all over the place, just like this post lol.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You are missing the point. The criticism of Carlton, which is all over the media, is the WAY that Carlton played. Despite its many opportunities the team consistently lacked focus, confidence, skill and effectiveness. There is real cause for concern.

And effort. Numerous glaring examples have been highlighted in the media, some of which we would have missed watching live.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Kane cornes and lloyd not fans of sps it seems. Cornes said sps shouldnt be played as a defender as hes basically no good (later on shows footage to show his point), lloyd said he shouldn't be in midfield either, not good enough/cant trust him in the midfield i think he said?

They also went went all in on dow/obrien, questioned our recruiting.

Then later said it was because we haven't given them enough games or something, that segment was all over the place, just like this post lol.

I also wonder with Matty Lloyd, whether his brother approves of the points he makes and whether we are being conditioned for something to come.

 

[Percy2257]

Kane cornes and lloyd not fans of sps it seems. Cornes said sps shouldnt be played as a defender as hes basically no good (later on shows footage to show his point), lloyd said he shouldn't be in midfield either, not good enough/cant trust him in the midfield i think he said?

They also went all in on dow/obrien, questioned our recruiting.

Then later said it was because we haven't given them enough games or something, that segment was all over the place, just like this post lol.

Lloyd and Cornes arent the only ones. I watched On The Couch tonight and I got the impression that, along with Stocker, they think SPS is a “bust”.

 

[Percy2257]

Lloyd and Cornes arent the only ones. I watched On The Couch tonight and I got the impression that, along with Stocker, they think SPS is a “bust”.

I think that it’s becoming obvious that at the end of the season Carlton will start trading the talent recruited in and after 2015 that it has hitherto protected.
SPS, Dow and O’Brien are three that the Club is likely to let go.

 

[Arr0w]

Doesn’t really matter how far back you want to look though, does it? ... if it’s a week ago, 5 weeks ago, 12 months ago, 12 years ago ... none paint a pretty picture..

Let's focus on this coach, this group, everything else is irrelevant

 

[CarltonBlooz]

I think that it’s becoming obvious that at the end of the season Carlton will start trading the talent recruited in and after 2015 that it has hitherto protected.
SPS, Dow and O’Brien are three that the Club is likely to let go.

You aren't going to get anything near what they were drafted on, all of them would be late second+ at best and if we did what would be the point? Useless draft picks that might be good in 3-4+ years at the bare minimum.

Expect LOB to get 1-2 year deal, Dow the same, SPS the same.

Would be a colossal blunder if those 3 never came good and got traded, would be Collingwood list management 2.0

Dow - Pick 3
SPS - Pick 6
LOB - Pick 10

You just know we'd see those 3 tearing it up at a different club, would be classic Carlton.

0 point in getting rid of those 3 at this time, in a few years if still no good yes, 23-25, 100 games.

It all comes back to development, which we have been extremely poor at.

Dow and LOB both barely played and SPS is being played out of position, Dow + LOB very poor atm, but HOPEFULLY some VFL time etc can help, we'll see.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Let's focus on this coach, this group, everything else is irrelevant

Not everyone can block out the fact that we've had a very bleak past 20 years.

It builds up and I honestly can't remember seeing supporters this fed up and frustrated. So wouldn't say it's totally irrelevant.

I think what really drives this frustration is the fact that we've pretty much changed every thing but we're still finding ourselves in a similar situation on field and people are tired of seeing the same old, same old year after year.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You aren't going to get anything near what they were drafted on, all of them would be late second+ at best and if we did what would be the point? Useless draft picks that might be good in 3-4+ years at the bare minimum.

Expect LOB to get 1-2 year deal, Dow the same, SPS the same.

Would be a colossal blunder if those 3 never came good and got traded, would be Collingwood list management 2.0

Dow - Pick 3
SPS - Pick 6
LOB - Pick 10

You just know we'd see those 3 tearing it up at a different club, would be classic Carlton.

0 point in getting rid of those 3 at this time, in a few years if still no good yes, 23-25, 100 games.

It all comes back to development, which we have been extremely poor at.

Dow and LOB both barely played and SPS is being played out of position, Dow + LOB very poor atm, but HOPEFULLY some VFL time etc can help, we'll see.

Put your hindsight glasses on.

I'm going to give you pick 5 (Setters) & pick 6 (SPS) for the 2016 draft and I'm going to give you pick 3 (Dow) and pick 10 (LOB) for the 2017 draft.

Which 4 players do you pick knowing what you know now?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Kouta's son kicked 11 goals in his u12s game on the weekend...

Well done to the young man!

 

[Arr0w]

Not everyone can block out the fact that we've had a very bleak past 20 years.

It builds up and I honestly can't remember seeing supporters this fed up and frustrated. So wouldn't say it's totally irrelevant.

I think what really drives this frustration is the fact that we've pretty much changed every thing but we're still finding ourselves in a similar situation on field and people are tired of seeing the same old, same old year after year.

What happened 20 years, or even 10 years ago is irrelevant to this group, we are at the start of the 6th year of the only rebuild we have ever undertaken. We have been improving each year from the start of the rebuild, apart from 2018 when our list was the youngest/most inexperienced while having massive injuries

We are 5 games into the season, lost games to 3 sides that played finals last year, 2 of which will probably end up being top 4. All this, with probably the worst injuries to best 22 in the competition

While I have highlighted my concerns, consistently for over 12 months, most of melts paint a picture like we are a wooden spoon, bottom 4 side, which we aren't

From sacking coaches, to board members and trading of players, it's over the top, but that's what this place is like when short term results don't mirror the unrealistic expectations of the masses

We were never considered a top 4 side this year, we are competing in a pool of 5-6 sides for the last 2 spots in the 8

 

[Lace_Out]

So.. Charlie was/is an alcoholic now? Give me a spell.

At least he will be in good spirits.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Gethelred]

At least he will be in good spirits.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

At least one of us will be.

 

[Gethelred]

Put your hindsight glasses on.

I'm going to give you pick 5 (Setters) & pick 6 (SPS) for the 2016 draft and I'm going to give you pick 3 (Dow) and pick 10 (LOB) for the 2017 draft.

Which 4 players do you pick knowing what you know now?

If we're going full hindsight, I'm trading out of 2016 and 2017 as much as I'm able to try and get 4-5 first round picks in 2018, get Walsh, Smith, Butters and one of the Kings.

But then, that's with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Let's focus on this coach, this group, everything else is irrelevant

That’s ma point

 

[forever blue 1]

You aren't going to get anything near what they were drafted on, all of them would be late second+ at best and if we did what would be the point? Useless draft picks that might be good in 3-4+ years at the bare minimum.

Expect LOB to get 1-2 year deal, Dow the same, SPS the same.

Would be a colossal blunder if those 3 never came good and got traded, would be Collingwood list management 2.0

Dow - Pick 3
SPS - Pick 6
LOB - Pick 10

You just know we'd see those 3 tearing it up at a different club, would be classic Carlton.

0 point in getting rid of those 3 at this time, in a few years if still no good yes, 23-25, 100 games.

It all comes back to development, which we have been extremely poor at.

Dow and LOB both barely played and SPS is being played out of position, Dow + LOB very poor atm, but HOPEFULLY some VFL time etc can help, we'll see.

As negative as this seems, I’d like one from either Dow, Lob, SPS to be traded to a very good team amd see how their development goes.

If they stay at same rate, increase as a better player or fall off the cliff never getting a game per se. If they were to get better significantly then there’s the answer to our development.

if they stay the same and get a gigs as per current, we can rest assure. If they hardly ever get a gig, I solely put this onto the recruitment team back then.

No one could argue that no matter which way you can be outspoken or sugar coated.

Maybe mid season draft?

 

[forever blue 1]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Kouta's son kicked 11 goals in his u12s game on the weekend...

Well done to the young man!

I’ll call him JuKou.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As negative as this seems, I’d like one from either Dow, Lob, SPS to be traded to a very good team amd see how their development goes.

If they stay at same rate, increase as a better player or fall off the cliff never getting a game per se. If they were to get better significantly then there’s the answer to our development.

if they stay the same and get a gigs as per current, we can rest assure. If they hardly ever get a gig, I solely put this onto the recruitment team back then.

No one could argue that no matter which way you can be outspoken or sugar coated.

Maybe mid season draft?

We have examples from the past. Kane Lucas and Troy Menzel at West Coast and Adelaide respectively.

Those teams gave them a shot in case it was development, based on their junior profile.

In those cases, I think we can blame it on the players, not recruiters or coaches.

 

[forever blue 1]

We have examples from the past. Kane Lucas and Troy Menzel at West Coast and Adelaide respectively.

Those teams gave them a shot in case it was development, based on their junior profile.

In those cases, I think we can blame it on the players, not recruiters or coaches.

Grigg comes to mind, Tohey- did he become better not sure but was getting a gig with a better team. When Waite left he wasn’t bad either, seemed to stay on park a little more. Henderson wasn’t too bad at cats

Gibbs- hit a game every week even when not warranted, went to Adelaide could hardly get a game. Could be still getting a gig at blues I reckon, well nearly.

 

[Arr0w]

Put your hindsight glasses on.

I'm going to give you pick 5 (Setters) & pick 6 (SPS) for the 2016 draft and I'm going to give you pick 3 (Dow) and pick 10 (LOB) for the 2017 draft.

Which 4 players do you pick knowing what you know now?

Drafting isn't easy

Ben Ainsworth (Pick 4, 2016), Jack Scrimshaw (Pick 7, 2016), Peter Wright (Pick 8, 2014), Callum Ah Chee (Pick 8, 2015), Will Brodie (Pick 9, 2016), Jarrod Garlett (Pick 15, 2014), Brayden Fiorini (Pick 20, 2015)

 

[JustaBattler]

Good on you Mark.
You are spot on and if anyone disagrees by the width of a hair they know nothing about the Carlton FC or AFL Football.
I'm sick to death of everyone making excuses while other clubs seem to be able to pass us by and make us look like amateurs on so many levels.

which Clubs that finished below Carlton last year have we lost against - please remind me again?

 

[Osc1]

Drafting isn't easy

Ben Ainsworth (Pick 4, 2016), Jack Scrimshaw (Pick 7, 2016), Peter Wright (Pick 8, 2014), Callum Ah Chee (Pick 8, 2015), Will Brodie (Pick 9, 2016), Jarrod Garlett (Pick 15, 2014), Brayden Fiorini (Pick 20, 2015)

Says more about development than recruiting. Remember Rance’s comments about Lynch and the bizarre things he would find he was doing ?

 

[JustaBattler]

Difference between media unit giving info and disgruntled board members and execs leaking.

the disgruntled borsd members if there are any - should air their POV in the Boardroom - if it is some octagenerian pokie bloke that is 'the leak' - who gives a **** - what are they leaking- members upset with a loss?