Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[malph]

Really good posts from 1954 and Macca19 . For those of us who can't get out to the ressies it's exactly what we want to read, so thanks. Injuries probably make it a necessity to play him now, but I can understand why Butcher has been held back; while we're winning, it's a luxury. When injuries and form turn the other way, though, we may as well fail while employing an objective structure, rather than fail while fielding a 22 that we don't want to see when everything is working as we want it.

Is it any coincidence the two most maligned players on our list who are clanger prone & lack confidence are the ones that cop a verbal berating every time they do something the fans don't agree with?

I suppose times have really changed. I'm not the kind of person who ever berates anybody on the field, umpires included, but my earliest memories of Port Adelaide at Alberton - seared into my brain - are not of supporters offering a polite "nice try" to poorly-performing players as they left the field.

 

[I Dont Care]

Well maybe all supporters should actually support their players. The same goes for Pittard in the Power side, you hear the crowd murmur nervously when he gets the ball in hand & if he does have a brainfart the bloke cops a tirade of 'he's hopeless, get it together Jasper' as he's coming off the ground to the bench.

Is it any coincidence the two most maligned players on our list who are clanger prone & lack confidence are the ones that cop a verbal berating every time they do something the fans don't agree with?

If we remember how long it took O'Shea to adapt in 2011-12 I spoke to him a few times & the doubt he had over his football ability wasn't helped by criticism from the fans thinking that he was one of the main reason we were a shithouse side, he obviously made the mistake of occasionally reading BF/FB feedback.

Cam turned it around to have a ripper 2013, Pittard is having a pretty decent year due to the confidence Ken has in him & it'd be good if in the near future Butcher comes along a similar path but the negativity towards him because he isn't a superstar isn't going to help make him a decent AFL footballer.

Fair enough Seany, but players have been criticised by their supporters since the year dot, and it won't ever stop. O'shea showed character in rising above that, and when you think about it so he should...if you are going to be affected by criticism, then maybe AFL isn't the right career path as we all know that the scrutiny is intense. That being said re-Butcher...he may be Butcher but he's OUR Butcher, and while he is, we should support him the best we can. We Are Port Adelaide

 

[yepits2020]

I'm with you but I wanna see Mason Shaw get the next crack at the spot, I don't know what his tank is like but he's no stick figure.
If Butch comes in and kicks 1.5 with assorted brain farts added in I think I'll need a stiff whiff of sterno.

Apparently has a tank. Trengove said he ran 15 kms in the game he scored 6 goals.

 

[AdamMarrett]

I'm all for the 3rd tall forward if we have Shaw or Butcher kicking the door down to be selected.I feel Westhoff plays his best footy with another tall forward in the side and it stretches the opposition defence.The only downside is it may affect our running game but we have enough quality in the side to cover it.Also depends on who we are playing also.

 

[yepits2020]

From the start of the year, you felt that we wanted to play a third tall up front but Butch could not quite make it. Week before, still missed a goal from 20 metres out. Just needs to fix that part of the game.

I think we have been experimenting with one less tall because of circumstance.

If Shaw has proven enough, I think he should be given a crack at it.

Harvey is in training to be the forward/ruck and at the moment sucks at it. I doubt we will see him.

 

[Spadge]

Awesome OP and awesome thread

We need either Butch or Shaw in the team this week.. period

At the end of the season we need to throw the cheque book open and bring another KPF in, and dont say there arent any around....Everyone has a price (and yes i know we have no COLA assistance)

If we want to win a premiership in the next 3 years we need to be pro-active. What we cant afford to do is go down the Carlton path of being a "mosquito fleet" team that we seem to be preparing for considering last years drafting (except Harvey)

 

[PowerLil]

From the start of the year, you felt that we wanted to play a third tall up front but Butch could not quite make it. Week before, still missed a goal from 20 metres out. Just needs to fix that part of the game.

I think we have been experimenting with one less tall because of circumstance.

If Shaw has proven enough, I think he should be given a crack at it.

Harvey is in training to be the forward/ruck and at the moment sucks at it. I doubt we will see him.

Neither true nor constructive. Gets used in many different roles (especially since Renouf went down), is good overhead, holds his own in the ruck against experienced opponents and is a beautiful kick for goal, especially from 50+. Looking forward to his continual improvement and debut.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

At the end of the season we need to throw the cheque book open and bring another KPF in, and dont say there arent any around....Everyone has a price (and yes i know we have no COLA assistance)

Nice in theory but who's out of contract & in the right age bracket?

 

[Seanybruz]

It's good to see John's at least made progress on past injury riddled years, being 5th in the SANFL goal scorers is a decent effort. He should've been given another chance when we played Melbourne after he kicked a few bags & we were lacking an extra tall to give Schulz & Hoff a chop out.

I know Ken likes Sammy but if we're being realistic given we already run a smaller forward setup & his stats are similar to Butchers wouldn't we be better off having the extra tall that draws a key back off Jay & causes some spillage for Chad, Gray & Gus to crumb?

He turns 23 in 2 days so I'll give him this year & if he is still struggling to crack the Power side by the end of next year then maybe he's not quite upto it, he's not the only high draft pick KPF struggling though Vickery is a year older & likely to be shopped around it happens often.

From what I've seen in Shaw he's a really exciting prospect that we hopefully get stitched up soon to keep Freo away for now at least, would've liked to see how he went this year without injury & see no harm in giving him a taste of AFL footy this year.

 

[yepits2020]

Neither true nor constructive. Gets used in many different roles (especially since Renouf went down), is good overhead, holds his own in the ruck against experienced opponents and is a beautiful kick for goal, especially from 50+. Looking forward to his continual improvement and debut.

I presume you are referring to my comments re Harvey. You will find my posts have been very positive about Harvey. Look at my posts... especially as I was one of the first to show pleasure at his recruitment and why. I agree with you about him except that, from what I have seen, he is not acquitting himself in the ruck at the moment. Am I surprised? No. Is it a negative? No. I predicted that he would be trained up as a ruck option once Renouf went down. Will he get better? Without doubt. He is still learning the craft and is a way off in my view, but I look forward to him in the AFL at some stage.

 

[Adz2332]

ill be honest this is really one of the only thing i differ with hinkleys thinking. go back and watch the games at the start of the year with Butch in the side. IMO we looked so much better. Let westy free and created match up problems and Butches forward pressure....
Im not into this midget brigade hes into. S Gray was a silly keeping his spot against the cows

 

[Killer Power]

I have been banging on about this since Butch was dropped. The third tall is critical to getting the best overall output from our forward line. Hoff in particular has been underwhelming since the structure changed. I now don't care if it is Butch or Shaw to come in as long as one of them does (or maybe both ). It is the silver lining to come out of the injuries to Jacko and Bobby because I don't think it would have happened otherwise. Hope they grab the opportunity with both hands and secure a spot. Though some on here will never be satisfied until these guys slot 5 straight from perfectly timed leads and set shots I will be judging it on the overall output of the forward line and against the individual they replace (likely Sam Gray).

 

[StrappingTape]

How about playing OShea as the third tall across half forward. He is big enough, has a huge tank, will make a contest?

 

[tribey]

How about playing OShea as the third tall across half forward. He is big enough, has a huge tank, will make a contest?

I often wonder why we were so eager to dispense with Pettigrew sometimes. I like Cam, but his career trajectory is looking frighteningly similar at this point.

 

[Power_boy89]

within the next 2 years, our tall forward situation will seriously need to be addressed with hopefully one of the boys (Butch, Shaw, Harvey) bursting onto the scene and making a name. we obviously have quality smalls doing an excellent job scoring and putting the pressure on, but in just about the 3 matches we've lost this year was because of a tall man marking in the 50 (aka Franklein, Goldstein types). It's our missing piece, but hopefully we compensate well for it this year.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

I often wonder why we were so eager to dispense with Pettigrew sometimes. I like Cam, but his career trajectory is looking frighteningly similar at this point.

Tweeners mate... Jack of all trades, masters of none.

Cam has weapons though, but is he a better defender than Hombsch? A better runner than player x ?

What do we do with him? I'd rather him in than Mitchell to be honest though.

 

[tribey]

Tweeners mate... Jack of all trades, masters of none.

Cam has weapons though, but is he a better defender than Hombsch? A better runner than player x ?

What do we do with him? I'd rather him in than Mitchell to be honest though.

I'm as gobsmacked as anyone he hasn't kicked on this year after his excellent back end of 2013. Whether that's purely down to Pittard pinching his role or some of the other rumoured goings on (OP, buying houses in Melbourne,/Torquay/Rottnest Isle) is hard to tell.

But yeah, maybe it's time to have him running wild like Blicavs does for Geelong?

 

[StrappingTape]

I often wonder why we were so eager to dispense with Pettigrew sometimes. I like Cam, but his career trajectory is looking frighteningly similar at this point.

Force them into backmen and thrn no matter what give them no forward time

 

[faquito]

Would be interested in bringing Butch in, it would let us have a glimpse of how Shaw deals with being the no.1 key forward.

If Shaw has a good 2-3 games as the no.1 target and Butch fails to deliver, then just swap them over.

 

[Powerstufff]

.... The failure of R. Gray, Wingard and Monfries to score a single goal between them these past two weeks has accentuated the issue .....

I disagree, add Sam Gray into that and the issue with all of those players is missing quite gettable chances. In the first half of the Showdown Westhoff, Monfries, and both Grays flubbed set shots. Being tall didn't help the Hoff, it wouldn't have helped the others. Wingard missed 2 soccers off the ground where height was obviously unimportant. For much of the second half our forwards, as loose players, were mostly absent when we went forward so again nothing to do with height. When we did score height was helpful probably only with Schulz. Adding a taller player into the mix is irrelevant when we play like that.

 

[Powerstufff]

Would be interested in bringing Butch in, it would let us have a glimpse of how Shaw deals with being the no.1 key forward.

If Shaw has a good 2-3 games as the no.1 target and Butch fails to deliver, then just swap them over.

The Maggies aren't really playing like that. When both those players are on the ground they are equal targets. Only Mitch Harvey is out of the mix most games now, being used as a ruckman much of the games.

 

[faquito]

The Maggies aren't really playing like that. When both those players are on the ground they are equal targets. Only Mitch Harvey is out of the mix most games now, being used as a ruckman much of the games.

Yeah I understand that, I think it's more to do with Shaw getting the first defender and not having a foil available during the game. To me Shaw seems to be allowed a free reign of the field covering more ground and I'd like to see how he goes tied up around our attacking 50... if that makes sense.

 

[Young Gun #6]

Is there anyone here who knows anyone or any site where you can contact the team selection committee about this. Too many of us agree and yet there seems to be no word from any coaches or anyone raising an issue on it too Ken.

 

[AdamMarrett]

I'm as gobsmacked as anyone he hasn't kicked on this year after his excellent back end of 2013. Whether that's purely down to Pittard pinching his role or some of the other rumoured goings on (OP, buying houses in Melbourne,/Torquay/Rottnest Isle) is hard to tell.

But yeah, maybe it's time to have him running wild like Blicavs does for Geelong?

From what I've heard around the traps and been told is the only reason O'Shea hasn't been playing is Hombsch passed him as the 3rd tall defender.O'Shea is signed up for another 2 years I believe he signed up recently to? If that's the case I have no problem with him missing over Hombsch on form.I like O'Shea as a player also

 

[Powerstufff]

Is there anyone here who knows anyone or any site where you can contact the team selection committee about this ....

Have you heard of Lynda Loades?