Analysis The Coach – Simon Goodwin: It's time...to dig into the why

[Bluelegs]

‘The new game style’ is kind of just the same s**t but a different bucket to what our problems have been in the last couple of years. We’ve gone from being careful with the ball in the sense of going long down the boundary line to being careful with the ball in moving it short and slowly crabbing it up the field ala Geelong pre 2022.

If we were constantly turning it over by rolling the dice with risky kicks into the corridor you could say we’re genuinely trying to change. If you saw us using players like Rivers, Langdon, Pickett and Windsor using their speed to run off halfback you could say we’re trying to add risk to up our scoring. But really I think it’s just a different way of trying to get an 80-70 score line.

I also kind of resent the implication that this group isn't equipped to move the ball properly. You don't need 22 elite kicks to move the ball quickly, in fact very few teams have that many great kicks. You just need gut-running and a willingness to spread and create options.

 

[Lord Nev]

I also kind of resent the implication that this group isn't equipped to move the ball properly. You don't need 22 elite kicks to move the ball quickly, in fact very few teams have that many great kicks. You just need gut-running and a willingness to spread and create options.

I would counter that with saying not many other teams have their 4 primary midfielders (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney) regularly in the worst 20 kicks in the league for kick retention. Kicking is pretty clearly a weakness for our group.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I would counter that with saying not many other teams have their 4 primary midfielders (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney) regularly in the worst 20 kicks in the league for kick retention. Kicking is pretty clearly a weakness for our group.

Those retention stats are damning. I guess that can come down to structure/instructions too though? Like if you have guys leading to space rather than standing in a pack down the line even an average kicker can put it to space/advantage.

 

[stEdy]

It is a little bit chicken and egg because our mids have terrible kick retention because we never have any forwards in space to kick to.

A lot easier to kick to a bloke in 15m of space because we've actually opened up the ground/used overlap run/used the corridor than kicking to a stagnant forward 50 filled with 20 players.

I'd say that group's kicking skills are probably mid table but perform as one of the worst.

EDIT: Karate beat me to it

 

[Bluelegs]

I would counter that with saying not many other teams have their 4 primary midfielders (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney) regularly in the worst 20 kicks in the league for kick retention. Kicking is pretty clearly a weakness for our group.

So don't ask them to be the main kickers. Ask them to win the ball while guys like Rivers, Kozzy and ANB sit outside the contest and charge forward. Don't ask your main accumulators to just grab the ball and sky it at every opportunity. Utilise their strengths, minimise their weaknesses. Bring the strengths of other players into the game.

 

[Lord Nev]

Those retention stats are damning. I guess that can come down to structure/instructions too though? Like if you have guys leading to space rather than standing in a pack down the line even an average kicker can put it to space/advantage.

Yeah 100% can be at least in part due to forward structure.

In saying that, here's where they rank in terms of worst kicking efficiency for us this year:

Gawn - 2nd worst
Oliver - 4th worst
Viney - 7th worst
Petracca - 8th worst

Trac and Viney not too bad for mids around the 60%ish mark, but Clarry and Max hover around 50%.

 

[Lord Nev]

So don't ask them to be the main kickers. Ask them to win the ball while guys like Rivers, Kozzy and ANB sit outside the contest and charge forward. Don't ask your main accumulators to just grab the ball and sky it at every opportunity. Utilise their strengths, minimise their weaknesses. Bring the strengths of other players into the game.

100% mate. My biggest issue with our midfield over the last 3 years has been we just kick it straight over half forward. We just completely bypass the players who should be kicking it inside 50.

 

[Oceanlabxo]

Im addicted to watching his post match press conferences particularly after terrible losses. There is something about laughing out loud or swearing at my monitor that is rather enjoyable.

watching goodwins pressers reminds me of an episode of the newsroom where the team tries to revamp the presidential candidate debates so that the candidates actually have to get a point across to the voters instead of just getting softball questions about supporting the troops and all that. it fails spectacularly because Americans hate change (and telling the truth), but it was interesting comparing it to these pressers where they just seem allergic to asking anything of any value. i reckon you could replay the same post match presser after each game and nobody would notice if you just made the team names a bit more generic. i swear simon hasn't been asked a hard question in his life as a coach.

What went wrong out there today simon? oh it wasn't a melbourne DNA game. the other team is actually pretty good. we were flat. the sky is blue. not how we want to play. ran out of peptides. etc

 

[Daemon]

‘The new game style’ is kind of just the same s**t but a different bucket to what our problems have been in the last couple of years. We’ve gone from being careful with the ball in the sense of going long down the boundary line to being careful with the ball in moving it short and slowly crabbing it up the field ala Geelong pre 2022.

If we were constantly turning it over by rolling the dice with risky kicks into the corridor you could say we’re genuinely trying to change. If you saw us using players like Rivers, Langdon, Pickett and Windsor using their speed to run off halfback you could say we’re trying to add risk to up our scoring. But really I think it’s just a different way of trying to get an 80-70 score line.

I quite like reading your opinions. Well presented and thought out. I think you are spot on with this.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I quite like reading your opinions. Well presented and thought out. I think you are spot on with this.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

I’m annoyed we won the flag in 2021 for 2 reasons.

1) I didn’t get to see it live which is every supporter’s main objective in following AFL.

2) we’re stuck with this bloke for a another decade due to the goodwill hangover of a flag, unless his cheersquad members in Kate and Gary both depart the building any time soon.

 

[SugarHealey]

I also kind of resent the implication that this group isn't equipped to move the ball properly. You don't need 22 elite kicks to move the ball quickly, in fact very few teams have that many great kicks. You just need gut-running and a willingness to spread and create options.

And quick thinking making the correct choices/options.. including weighting the kick well to advantage. This has been our constant issue.
Kicking onto the heads of teammates, or behind them, which is worse.

Put it out in front of our forwards; or onto the heads of the short defenders, so we can get a ride on their backs, or to control the fall of the ball to advantage.

 

[SugarHealey]

So don't ask them to be the main kickers.

It's not the kicking... its the decision making process, as they decide to kick the ball.

 

[SugarHealey]

100% mate. My biggest issue with our midfield over the last 3 years has been we just kick it straight over half forward. We just completely bypass the players who should be kicking it inside 50.

That's the old "take the territory deep" and create a stoppage, with the view to win that stoppage to score from.

This hasn't worked particularly well imv.

 

[Lord Nev]

 

[Lord Nev]

Full segment is here from about 39 minutes in.

Talks about how inaccurate goal kicking cost us last year and how we've changed our style this year but it's not working. (Trigger warning for people who don't understand expected score and don't think our style has changed)

"This isn't us, and this isn't working"

Full on Footy Analysis with Champion Data's Daniel Hoyne - Round 10

 

[schmuttt]

Full segment is here from about 39 minutes in.

Talks about how inaccurate goal kicking cost us last year and how we've changed our style this year but it's not working. (Trigger warning for people who don't understand expected score and don't think our style has changed)

"This isn't us, and this isn't working"

Full on Footy Analysis with Champion Data's Daniel Hoyne - Round 10

The only difference in our style is we are trying not to bomb the ball in. We still move the ball slowly, we don't take risks but now we get smashed at clearance and ground ball. I disagree our style has changed a ton, I agree with you that our midfield has completely fallen apart.

 

[Lord Nev]

The only difference in our style is we are trying not to bomb the ball in. We still move the ball slowly, we don't take risks but now we get smashed at clearance and ground ball. I disagree our style has changed a ton, I agree with you that our midfield has completely fallen apart.

It clearly has, and now the media are talking about. Worth listening to the segment as it outlines it a bit.

We didn't always move the ball slowly, sure we did it from kick ins and often from the defensive half, but we charged from stoppages and had huge inside 50 numbers. Those numbers have completely nosedived now while our marking numbers have done the opposite.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Newsflash Daniel, we dont have a version that can.

 

[Topkent]

Maybe we should post our opinions on twitter then old mate will listen

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Its all pointless and a different kind of same while the same dickhead is in charge. Too scared of being scored against/cant outscore teams who kick 80 points. Pick your poison. Our ceiling is still capped while the floor appears lower than it was before. #changes

 

[Topkent]

The only difference in our style is we are trying not to bomb the ball in. We still move the ball slowly, we don't take risks but now we get smashed at clearance and ground ball. I disagree our style has changed a ton, I agree with you that our midfield has completely fallen apart.

This is so obvious to anyone who actually watches and doesn't just base it off stats. I reckon the mids are struggling because players like Viney and Oliver use to thrive on getting disposals in the forward half game and now that they need to get open for uncontested marks it doesn't suit em. Rest is all whatever. Our ideal game is still 30-32 at ¾ time then we open up in the last. It's a 50/50 against any good side and you can see how easily we lose control of games if the other teams is able to keep the game in the open like Brisbane and WC

 

[PerfectFooty]

Okay i'm not meaning this in the rude dismissive way as i agree.

But who?

 

[Lord Nev]

Okay i'm not meaning this in the rude dismissive way as i agree.

But who?

He's in charge of Competition Analysis at Champion Data.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Maybe we should post our opinions on twitter then old mate will listen

I mean this Hoyney bloke is Sandra Sully with the late news. Anyone with half a brain would have known that we were never a remote chance of being in premiership contention this year.

You're winning nothing with this same game plan weve had since 2022. We've adjusted and tweaked it for the worse this year.