Roast The Cull needs to start

[Old Den]

A cull has no need to or can start now...there is every chance we will take 5 but a minimum of 3 picks in this year's National Draft is required.

We might want to trade for one or more players...one or more will probably go to Gold Coast...we might want to elevate one or more rookies...the poachers from clubs other than Gold Coast and GWS will be on the prowl...someone (or more) might wanna go home.

I can honestly say there was not one player left on the list from last year that I thought did not deserve to be there...we need depth on the list in case the injury situation is worse than this year - and even if everyone on the list is available and deserves a game only 22 can play.

So at the minimum 3 current players will not be retained for next year and there will be lots of circumstances to consider before decisions will be made and as TBD said...sorting out what best to do to improve the list which is what happened for this season.

I say yet again....Premierships...6 in the next 100 years would be OK...10 would be really good.

 

[Slattery_20]

Just cutting players, no matter how bad they are doesn't make the team any better.

I'm more interested in how we can improve our list, from both developing what we already have and the addition of new recruits.

I have little interest in listing players who I think should be sacked. Thank god that job lies with someone else!

I just find it curious that when things hit a bad turn, there seems to be more focus on who should go, rather than what we need to do to get better results. I think there is some underlying primal need to have someone punished for our disappointments.

You must tell your recruiters to get -



A shrubbery!

 

[western royboy]

Re: Tom Collier

Nar he is a good advertisement for the kids - "If I can play a senior game, anybody can play a senior game".

Hope he gets a farewell game in round 22 along with Hawksley, Sheldon and a few others.

Book Sarah Brightman & Andreas Bocelli for the pre -match where they can sing "Time to say Goodbye"

 

[chopperduck]

Re: Tom Collier

Collier might be in a little trouble if he can't make the most of himself this year, but Hawksley is useful and Sheldon is still getting along. Hawksley inparticular should be in no danger of getting the boot.

 

[Ceebee]

Hawksley did ok last night.

 

[chopperduck]

I like Hawksley. He isn't bad defensively, he is hard at it, and he is a good shape. Gives us good rebound as well. He needs refinement, but he will learn I think. Doesn't have a lot of experience yet.

 

[Dylan12]

Sam Sheldon is close to the top of my list. He is soft, shirks contests, is afraid to put his body on the line and pretty much offers nothing.

 

[Grimreepah]

Sam Sheldon is close to the top of my list. He is soft, shirks contests, is afraid to put his body on the line and pretty much offers nothing.

Sheldon has his faults, but I think the things you have listed as faults are actually the things he does well.

 

[acuguy]

I actually quite like Sheldon and i thought his second half was excellent on the weekend. I still think patience is still required for Sammy. He was recruited a season too early so that we could get him before he was f/s by Carlton. He has had injuries and glandular fever over the journey. I doubt he has done a full pre season. I like him because he is accountable, moves well laterally and generally has good vision when the ball is in his hands.

My big concern with our list is our foot skills

We have a number of players who a can no longer kick the ball over 45 metres or who i would classify as poor kicks of the footy

Black
Buchanan
Charman
Collier
Hanley
Leuenberger
Power
Proud
Raines
Redden
Rocklif
Selwood
Sheldon
Staker
Stiller

Over 1/3 of our list wouldn't back to kick a goal or make the distance from 45metres. Obviously i am being a little unfair on Black and Power.

I am not saying delist all of these guys etc but i think we have far too many players on our list who cannot penetrate when they kick the footy.

 

[dlanod]

Agreed. Looking at our drafting over the last few years, we definitely haven't put a premium on disposal skills and it does hurt us. Our first and second round picks which some clubs seem to do right regularly have been less than stellar. I went back until I could find a solid set of wins in the one year (2002), and only four would I class with good foot skills - Rich, Clark, Adcock and Brennan (albeit unorthodox).

Rich, Redden
Henderson, Collier
Leuenberger, Proud
Clark, Mills
Wood, Garner
Spaanderman, Moody, Adcock
Brennan, Selwood, Merrett, Corrie

Also of concern is the sheer number who didn't make it, or look like they're not going to make it. First and second rounds are supposed to be the bread and butter, but our average pick history is what makes the picks like Banfield, etc, later in the draft look like gold.

 

[pauldrc]

These are the obvious problem choices that matter....a lot of prety ordinary recruiting there, even though some have been on traded for other picks/players, still....

Would be interesting (or maybe just depressing....) to see who we could have got instead of those we picked, or to see what might have been....

Rich, Redden
Henderson, Collier
Leuenberger, Proud
Clark, Mills
Wood, Garner
Spaanderman, Moody, Adcock
Brennan, Selwood, Merrett, Corrie

As previously said, lucky we did some clever recruiting with our latter choices, else we would be in even more trouble....

 

[dlanod]

2007: No real improvement there. Andy Otten or Whitecross instead of Collier maybe.
2006: Renouf, Dawes, Petterd or Tippett instead of Proud. No good midfielders though.
2005: Mills was a bit of a shocker. Quite a bit of depth coming in the round after him, including Ibbotson, Vince, Gilbert and Anthony.
2004: Another shallow draft. Van Berlo, Moore, LeCras and Maric are the only ones that look tempting.
2003: Buchanan! Apart from Symes there's no one else there that wasn't a speccie came good (e.g. Ben Hudson). Terrible draft.

Overall we haven't done too badly outside of 05 and 06 I guess. Maybe that's what we get for having picks in the 7-10 range instead of 1-7 like most other teams cycled through.

 

[whizkizz]

It's now August, so I think we can start talking about list management, and prepare for whatever 2011 may bring.

I reckon our best 22 right now looks something like this (the 22nd player - Proud - was the hardest spot to pick, and I probably just based it on last nights game):

B: Patfull, Merrett, McGrath
HB: Drummond, Maguire, Adcock
C: Rischitelli, Black, Brennan
HF: Staker, Brown, Sherman
F: Banfield, Fevola, Polkinghorne
R: Clark, Power, Rich
I: Leuenberger, Rockliff, Redden, Proud

Of those 22, you could say that potentially we may lose a couple.
Retirement: Black, Power
Gold Coast: Rischitelli, Brennan
Trade bait: Sherman
Safe: The other 17 players

Clearly this is a very pessimistic scenario, but we may need five replacements.

Of the remaining players, you can break them into categories. Aside Kieran King, I can't think of any other first year players that have been culled from the Lions. Thus these players are safe:

1st Year Players
Bartlett
Harwood
O'Brien
Retzlaff

2nd Year Key Position Players
Cornelius
McCulloch


Which leaves 12 players. IMO these five will be on our list next year:
X.Clarke
Buchannon
Hanley
Hawksley
Raines

Which leaves question marks over these players:
Collier - showed glimpses this year, probably the best chance of this group to stay
Johnstone - last year of a contract, probably gone
Sheldon - either went backwards this year, or just didn't improve
Charman - maybe forced into retirement, long time since he's played a game
Austin - flank fringe player anyway, we could do better than play Matt
Stiller - probably hasn't improved since his debut season, shot on to the scene and has stalled since
Selwood - injured at the moment, but showed next to nothing this year.


Will we see Voss make huge changes to the playing list again? There were plenty of surprises last year (eg. J-Mac, Hooper, Bradshaw), so I wonder what's in store this October?

 

[Cousin Jed]

There's no question mark over Selwood. He'll be delisted.

 

[Stocka]

I wouldn't classify Sherman as being safe.

 

[whizkizz]

I wouldn't classify Sherman as being safe.

That's why I listed him as trade bait...

 

[Axel.]

Good write up. I'll probably go.

Delist:

Selwood
Stiller
Raines
Buchanan
Johnstone

Trade:

Sherman
Collier
Charman
Fev?

Promote:

McCauley
Beams

Hopefully we only lose only one player to GC if anything.

 

[Stocka]

That's why I listed him as trade bait...

Yes, yes you did...... ummm, yeah, I was just reinforcing that point!

 

[whizkizz]

Good write up. I'll probably go.

Promote:

McCauley
Beams

I didn't even consider the rookies, but I agree with those two. I would also add Don Barry, I'm hoping he gets a spot on the main or rookie list.

 

[Axel.]

Oh forgot about Barry.

Wallace mentioned on FS that we need another small forward to help out Banfield and i think Barry could be the right man for the job.

 

[Stocka]

I reckon that Sheldon, Collier and Hawksley would have to be seriously looked at to be moved on at the end of the year. I'm not sure that other clubs would be all that interested in them, so I reckon it'd probably have to come down to a straight delisting.

Selwood's had his time although, I wonder if there might be other clubs who'd give him a chance. Even so, they'd probably pick him up in the PSD.

Austin's injury makes it hard to judge, but he'd have to be under the pump as well, I'd imagine. He looked alright last year, but hasn't done anything in 2010.

I reckon we could probably give Stiller another year. I doubt he'd be taking much of a salary and at least he's physically capable of playing at AFL level. I'd be keeping him for depth (to cover for injuries, resting of younger players, etc.) as much as anything.

It's looking more and more certain as the year drags on that the likes of Power, Black, Johnstone and Charman should call it quits at the end of the year.

There are certainly some questions that need to be asked of many of the recycled recruits, in Fevola, Raines, Buchanon and Clarke. I'm not saying that they'd all have their heads on a plate, but their long-term role might seriously come in to question as early as the end of this season.

 

[Warwick]

Unbelievable to think Raines, Buchanan, Charman, and Stiller have contracts next year. They should be top of the delisting pile.

And to think we could lose quality players like Black, Power, Brennan, and Rischitelli instead. And if Fev opts for a trade that could be 5 of our current top 10 leave at the end of the year. With a list as shallow as ours that will be devastating. Most years we have 1 or 2 who look for greener pastures so we will have a task to keep those we want on board.

No one will be stupid enough to trade for any of the first 4 names so we will have to pay them out if we want them gone. For a club struggling for money I don't know whether we could afford that. I would cut at least 2 of them - but I keep changing my mind who they should be. Maybe someone will agree to pay Charman's salary for some extra ruck depth to make our job slightly easier. He is far too expensive to be sitting on the sideline, and too be frank, was far too expensive considering his current input on the field before he got injured anyway.

Blokes like Sheldon, Selwood, Hawksley, Collier, Austin, and Johnstone will, and should be under fire.

It's not inconceivable to think we will have a turn over of 8-10 players again.

If we go for any more players in the trade period who played their best football in 2005 Voss' head should be on a platter. It's up to him and the rest of his crack team to sort out this mess.

 

[PTizzle]

Really hope GC doesn't poach Brennan or Rischitelli (don't they technically have a limit of one player per team they can take? I know it can probably be bypassed one way or another).

We won't get much at all for Fev, not after this year. I can't think of many teams who would want him, I think he's worth keeping around. Players like Raines, Buchanan and Stiller though, bleh. Should definitely have kept them on a one-year basis.

I think one of Black or Power will stay, maybe both. I really don't know how they're feeling but they're still playing alright and they can be useful for helping out the young guys I reckon.

Def agree with your last point Warwick. Unless we get really good deals we should only be looking to trade for draft picks and to be using our own draft picks well.

If the players get some more spirit the list isn't too bad even if we lose a few.

 

[LionMen]

Really hope GC doesn't poach Brennan or Rischitelli (don't they technically have a limit of one player per team they can take? I know it can probably be bypassed one way or another).

We won't get much at all for Fev, not after this year. I can't think of many teams who would want him, I think he's worth keeping around. Players like Raines, Buchanan and Stiller though, bleh. Should definitely have kept them on a one-year basis.

I think one of Black or Power will stay, maybe both. I really don't know how they're feeling but they're still playing alright and they can be useful for helping out the young guys I reckon.

Def agree with your last point Warwick. Unless we get really good deals we should only be looking to trade for draft picks and to be using our own draft picks well.

If the players get some more spirit the list isn't too bad even if we lose a few.

Yeah, unfortunately the limit is 2 uncontracted players.

 

[GabbaFella]

It is inconceivable that Raines and Buchanan could be on any more than a '1 year look and see how he goes' contract......wtf are we doing????? To think we gave away a draft pick for Raines in the 40's makes my blood boil

Stiller, Selwood and Travis immediately delisted at the end of the year IMO

Charman trade bait...maybe to the hawks or richmond

Shermo trade bait

Broc and young Beams promoted

No one will buy Fev for the price we payed, so we have him for the next 2 years.....

Coming from a physio such as myself, i also hope heads are on the chopping block regarding strength/conditioning/medical staff as well....I see Liverpool FC cleaned out their entire med staff and promoted an aussie, Dr Peter Bruckner, to oversee things, as they were unhappy with the way things were going

and so should we....we must be ruthless in this regard....I wish that Victor Popov was looking after things from a physio point of view again, he is a top physio who looked after us during the early 00's and should do so again