The current refugee crisis?

[GOALden Hawk]

Last week there was an excellent discussion on boat people coming to Australia in this forum.

Just wondering what people's views are on the current crisis involving the mostly Afghani refugees on the Norweigen freighter. What should be done to solve what looks like an extremely messy situation all round?

I was very annoyed when I heard the Taliban having a sook that we weren't letting their people in, considering they were all running away due to their Draconian laws. Even worse when you think they have two of our citizens locked up for the heinous crime of 'promoting Christianity'.

So what can be done? Is Howard doing the right thing? Should a law have been passed through? Were Labor correct in blocking the law because it affects all ships in distress? Are Norway right to be p!ssed off? Should Indonesia take them? Should the people of Christmas Island be welcoming the refugees and saying the Australian government is wrong?

Your thoughts on this complex issue.

 

[goswans14]

Solution:

Make them live with Joffa. That would scare anyone away.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

In the red corner : the legal abstraction known as 'sovereignty'

In the blue corner : The lives of 438 human beings

I know where my allegiances lie.

cheers

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
In the red corner : the legal abstraction known as 'sovereignty'

In the blue corner : The lives of 438 human beings

I know where my allegiances lie.

cheers

You care to elaborate on that BSA? Interesting argument, not sure it will hold up with the UN or the Australian/Norweigan/Indonesian government however!

 

[The Hitman]

Why should we have them?

Indonesia don't want them either, yet they won't cop the crap we will.

There has tto be a precedent set. How close does the boat have to get in order for us to accept them? If they were 438 Brits on that boat, would we have let them land? Are there lives really in danger? Why should we be held responsible for them?

Like the issue on a whole, this is a very complex debate with perhaps no real answer...

I have no qualms with what John did however...

The Hitman

 

[FIGJAM]

I agree with BSA.

However, given the politics surrounding this (ie. Indonesia not wanting them and Norway refusing to go there anyway) I propose the following solution.

Take the people onto Christmas Island. Give them A-Grade meals and medical supervision. Let them stay at a five-star resort. Give them haircuts and new suits. And then fly 'em first class to Norway.

If they think that it is so "humanitarian" or that it is our "responsibility", then let them take them in and see if they put their money where there mouth is!!!

The Vikings should have gone to Indonesia in the first bloody place!

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by The Hitman
Why should we have them?

The Hitman

For one reason WE sent out the message for the Norwegian ship to help. THEY did the humane thing. Now we say it's their problem.

 

[Dave]

Did WE? Given the skipper of the ship wanted to go to Indonesia and was forced to come here do we want them anyway? What are they going to do the next time they don't get their way?

I think Howard will have to back down in the end as Indonesia will thumb their noses at us. Given the people are on our doorstep it'll end up being our problem.

What really pisses me off though is that no-one wants to solve the big problem. Why do these people want to come here in the first place? If Norway want to get pissed with us for what we are doing, why aren't they getting pissed at Afganistan for forcing them out in the first place? If civilised nations didn't put up with regimes like the Taliban and Saddam Hussain we'd go a long way towards solving the souce of the refugee problem rather than the outcomes.

 

[The Hippie]

The Indonesians are the real culprits here. Most of these boat people are flying or sailing to Indonesia direct from their countries where they are either re-supplied or found a boat and sent on their merry way. Under international law, genuine refugees are supposed to be taken in by the country they make first landfall on. Doesn't sound like Indonesia are taking a lot of notice of that law. No wonder they laugh at us.

 

[TigerTank]

My position has not changed.

Indonesia was the last country the illegal immigrants entered legally (apparently) - it is up to Indonesian authorities to sort them out.

Australia, as a nation, has the right to protect its borders. The Prime Minister has done absolutely the right thing.

 

[Fat Red]

Those who read the boat people thread will know that I am against detaining asylum seekers who land here (at least for more than a week or two).

However, I'm with Tiger Tank on this one. The ship should go to Indonesia.

However we are losing the international PR war in a big way. We have a lot of credit in the bank internationally, which has allowed this government to get away with things like getting special treatment on Kyoto.

But this is evaporating and the governement seems willing to sacrifice it for their own re-election. This will come back to bite us.

We need to be out there in the international media, explaining why the people-smugglers have to be deterred and that we do take lots of refugees in.

 

[sbagman]

Let them stay I reckon. I'm a humanitarian.

 

[topdon]

John Howard is plain wrong. If there were animals on that vessel...the wildlife conservationists would be belting down Howard's door. These aren't animals Howard...they are human beings!! Reading the results of some of the polls in the Herald-Sun, you'd think that Australians are a rather heartless mob

Fancy getting the SAS to take over the ship? Howard is doing this as he thinks he has the support of the electorate ... seeing some of these polls have vindicated him.

Its a very sad state of affairs

 

[1AD]

12,000 people have come illegaly by boat in the last 10 years. It is estimated that 60,000 to 80,000 people are here after coming in by plane etc and have overstayed their Visa time. Most of these are Americans , English etc. funny thing though ! not to many end up in a detention centre. Who wants to bet that the next ship in isn't boarded and sent back?
Election years..don't you love them.




ps : heard anything more about the Mcfarlane GST scam...no...funny that


pss Never vote for a pollie....you only encourage them

 

[TheMase]

The only way for the Indonesian government will let them come back is if OUR government says something along the lines of ....

"Until you take these people 'back' we are cutting off ALL AID to the country"

As far as I know, Australia gives money to Indonesia.... to help them and stuff...
So just CUT IT OFF

Then see them...

I see the point of view of both sides, but no matter what, these people are humans ...

I really feel sorry for the captain of the ship!! What is the poor guy suppose to do! He does the right thing, and he gets swooped on my army troops!

 

[RacerX]

Well some of you guys put forward an emotive argument about these poor people which makes it difficult to keep a cool head. I think it may be worth considering some issues:

The people payed around 7500 US$ to a criminal organisation to get them where they are.

In transit to Australia they passed a number of other sovereign nations, some of which seem more appropriate for these people assuming certain religous beliefs and cultural traits.

They claimed they had seriously ill people on board the Tama. The army medic said that there were no serious problems. In any event they were well enough to get on a barely seasworthy vessel in the first place.

The Captain of the Tama was threatened by these people and made to sail towards Aus waters - after he rescued these people.


What I'm thinking at the moment is that these people are economic refugees seeking a better life in Australia. Nothing wrong with that, however, the manner in which they tried to get into Aus is questionable. In letting these people into Aus we are also encouraging a dangerous trade organised by criminals.

 

[SOTS]

I support allowing refugees into the country, we have plenty to share. This immigration must be controlled so as to stop criminals, "economic" refugees passing as something else, and for the well being of the people themselves. These boat people are uncontrolled, and must be discouraged.

BUT - these particular people are stuck on a boat in our waters. It doesn't matter how they got there. I can't see the Indonesians giving in (Indonesia hasn't signed the refugee treaty and therefore isn't obliged to take them like Australia is) and if Norway is forced to take them, I for one would be very embarassed.

We must discourage boat people taking their chances and encourage controlled immigration. I don't see this stand-off as effectively discouraging future boat people, that must be done by co-operation between Australia and Indonesia.

SOTS

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

yeah - very good point there 1AD

Every day, on every plane people arrive here from Britain and North America on 3 month tourist, or 12 month working holiday visas WHO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF EVER LEAVIING AUSTRALIA AGAIN.

These people are young, speak English, have nice pink happy smiling faces, wear funky Western clothes and get off nice shiny silver jet airliners.

They are all around you, you probably even know some ( I do), there are thousands and thousands of them everywhere.

They take our jobs, they spoil our pubs, many of them have criminal records, in some places they ruin the local environment (been to Bondi Beach lately ?), many of them are rude and obnoxious, most of them have fewer skills or qualifications than Arab boat people.

Like 1AD says, there are 4 or 5 of these overstaying tourists for every boat person. There are 000's and 000's of these people everywhere. Yet nobody even thinks about them.

Yet when a boat shows up off the WA Coast with a couple of hundred Arabs in it, the hysteria is incredible.

Why the double standard ? - Is it because overstaying tourists are people with fair complexions, who speak English and wear nice clothes ? Whereas the boat people are just a bunch of Arabs

hmmmmm

This is most certainly a racist policy - is it not ?

Could somebody please explain why we treat illegal immigrants with white skin as friendly guests but treat illegal immgrants with dark skin like criminals ?

cheers

 

[Asgardian]

You either come into Australia in the correct lawful way, or you don't get in, full stop, no if's buts or maybes.

A couple of well placed torpedoes would solve this situation fast.

Now I know all the tree swinging, dope smoking, rent a demonstration, humanitarian lefties will be down on my case faster than a dole cheque, frankly I don't care.

I love my country, and I love our way of life, I am a law-abiding citizen, why on earth should we reward lawlessness?

If we let these people in, we reward criminal activities

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Applying to come to Australia in 'the correct lawful way' is to invite immediate arrest, detention without triual, torture and conviction.

If these people could come to Australia through the proper channels then they would - belive me.

But its extremely difficult to apply properly for a refugees visa in a place like Bagdad when there are secret police and informers everywhere ready to dob you into Saddam Hussein and the Ba'th Party.

As for your other comments, I won't even dignify them with a response except to ask you if you personally would be prepared to pull the trigger and take personal responsibilty for killing another defenceless human being in cold blood ...

I doubt it.

Oh and btw - I've never hugged a tree or drawn a dole cheque in my life.

cheers

 

[The Hitman]

There are other countries closer then Australia where they could imigrate to where they could then apply through the proper channels to get here.

The Hitman

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by Asgardian
You either come into Australia in the correct lawful way, or you don't get in, full stop, no if's buts or maybes.
A couple of well placed torpedoes would solve this situation fast.

You mean like the "tourists" we let in on visas who overstay their time and never leave?
Do you now class them as criminals? Or because they came into the country the "correct" way is it okay for them to stay on un-lawfully? But I suppose it would be hard trying to find them. Afterall they would be well dressed, middle class, white skinned people who blend in well to Australian society. Not dirty dark skinned Arabs,eh?

Yeah, get the torpedos blow them out of the water. Little kids, babies all of them. Why not it would put them out of their misery, wouldn't it?

BTW I don't swing from trees, I don't smoke dope, I don't collect the dole! But I am a leftist, at least you got something right!

 

[dees01]

I want to congratulate the governemt on their tough stance on this issue. I am fully behind what they are doing. I say why do we always have to be the good guys, and I fully believe they are Indonesia's responsibility not ours.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

I reckon they are Afghanistan's responsibility, not ours or Indonesia's or Norway's. If the UN wasn't such a toothless tiger maybe we wouldn't have tens of thousands of people trying to flee a country been run by Islamic militants who destroy world monuments, have Draconian laws and don't give women even the most basic of human rights.

In the 21st century, how a group such as the Taliban can be allowed to exist, let alone rule a country with an iron fist is beyond me.

 

[mantis]

I find it deporable when I hear fellow Aussies calling for the mass murder of innocent men, women & children, who are just looking for a better life, free from persecution & attrocities.

These people who advocate these actions, are no better than the rulers that these refugees are fleeing from.