The Future Eaters

[theGav56]

When you trade heavily for a ready made player to come into the team by giving up your prized early picks you devour the future. One of the best moves the club made in its trading history was to not trade away the picks that brought Haselby, Pavlich and Brown (even though he was later traded for the pick that brought Scammer).

What is going to happen in the next trade period? Do we eat the future? or do we sow some seeds?

I think it will be a great opportunity to put some talent into the bank, let it grow and mature, compound and multiply. We don't need an instant hit. We have plenty of talent coming through.

CC thinks the gaps in our team are speed in the midfield and another tall backman. It may be possible to draft pace in the midfield which may have an almost immediate impact. Tall backmen take longer, but we do have some potential within the list.

Any thoughts welcome.

 

[pinkus maximus]

I reckon we will try and get Jon Hay. Other than that I think we will draft some more KP's no doubt.

How about Campbell. I see him playing forward for WP but how about playing him defence I wonder

 

[Belnakor]

I don't think theres really anything we need to trade for this year. The core of the team is there, though we're probably lacking another average/quality tall who can play down back. Quality midfielders can be picked up in the draft with 1-2 development.

 

[dominguez]

We have traded heavily in the past, but the good thing is that the players we have picked up have been around the 23-25 age bracket with plenty of football left. We haven't moved heaven and earth to recruit a Wayne Carey type player (who cost the crows Daniel Wells).

Now that we have been able to recruit some big names during trade periods we should top up our list through the draft and retain our picks. The few areas that we are currently vulnerable- tall quick midfielders, back up ruckmen and possibly a tall defender should be strengthened through the draft. The good thing is that ther should be plenty of quality WA boys coming through in the next 2 or 3 drafts.

As pinkus maximus stated Jon Hay may be keen to come home, as will Steven Armstrong, but neither should be a high priority and should only be pursued if the right deal presents itself. If Medhurst stays, and with Dunn re-signed we wont have much to trade with.

 

[masai]

As pinkus maximus stated Jon Hay may be keen to come home, as will Steven Armstrong, but neither should be a high priority and should only be pursued if the right deal presents itself. If Medhurst stays, and with Dunn re-signed we wont have much to trade with.

Hay is a big injury risk, we already have an injury ravaged Haddrill. Do not persue.

Armstrong is not worth persueing.

Use the draft picks to get youngsters.

 

[pav_is_god]

No need for a big name trade, I'd draft in a tall midfielder and a 3rd string ruckmen.

 

[ImperialPurple]

No need for a big name trade, I'd draft in a tall midfielder and a 3rd string ruckmen.

Agree.

They chose not to trade for anyone in 2003 - instead off-loading Koops for #19 and Croad for #10. That year we picked up Dunn (10), Murphy (12), Mundy (19), Campbell (27) and Peake (F/S - #43 IIRC). Also picked up Dylan Smith as a rookie who was subsequently elevated 12 months later.

That's 6 guys in 2003 - 5 of whom have played at the highest level, with only Campbell still to debut.

Jury is out whether they'll all make it - highly unlikely to get a 100% strike rate; but Mundy will definitely make it; Dunn, Murphy and Peake probably will; Campbell - who knows; and Smith has proven himself to be a handy back-up during times of injury to our first choice mid-fielders.

That is a pretty bloody good effort from one draft year - which is why IMO, they were able to trade away those picks for Joshie last year. Trading picks in 2004 will not do any lasting damage with that group of youngsters from the previous year all looking likely sorts.

I reckon they'll hang onto their picks this year - or trade a lower one + fringe player for a back-up ruckman... if there are any available.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

There was an article in the Australian on Saturday that Port is shopping Bryon Pickett. And one the clubs they have spoken to is WA club. Given WCE have basically a no-trade policy, it might be us. He seems to have lost his way at Port and he would add plenty of speed.

I think Steven Amstrong for a third round pick would be value. Apparently, he's playing good footy but Melbourne have plenty of his type. He would add depth to the list, and is quicker than what we have now. But does lack size.

 

[pav_is_god]

There was an article in the Australian on Saturday that Port is shopping Bryon Pickett. And one the clubs they have spoken to is WA club. Given WCE have basically a no-trade policy, it might be us. He seems to have lost his way at Port and he would add plenty of speed.

I think Steven Amstrong for a third round pick would be value. Apparently, he's playing good footy but Melbourne have plenty of his type. He would add depth to the list, and is quicker than what we have now. But does lack size.

Pickett would cost too much. I'd look at Armstrong for a 3rd rounder if the predicted talent left at that stage in the draft is poor in comparison.

 

[theGav56]

I am not a big fan of a third string ruckman. It didn't make us a better team having Symonds in the team. Just made us unbalanced. I prefer the idea of someone like Warren or Johnson who can play back (or maybe forward) and pinchhit in the ruck. I liked the way mooney went into the ruck for Geeeeelong last year, and created a mismatch.

Does anyone know if Warren has this ability?

 

[pav_is_god]

I am not a big fan of a third string ruckman. It didn't make us a better team having Symonds in the team. Just made us unbalanced. I prefer the idea of someone like Warren or Johnson who can play back (or maybe forward) and pinchhit in the ruck. I liked the way mooney went into the ruck for Geeeeelong last year, and created a mismatch.

I don't advocate having 3 ruckmen in the side, but we need one in the squad as backup. If Longmuir or Sandilands goes down with a longterm injury we'd be stuffed having to use a pinch hitter as our 2nd ruckmen. Its hard enough for our boys to get clearances with dedicated ruckmen, let alone a part timer.

 

[marcy8811]

I wouldnt object to packaging our top pick with a player so that we could get better access to one of the better WA boys. Ie Pat Ryder at East Freo looks great. !95cm ruckman but lots of versatility. Could be a backman etc.

If we packaged a player and a pick, it would go a little way to solving the problems of our dilemma

 

[theGav56]

"I don't advocate having 3 ruckmen in the side, but we need one in the squad as backup. If Longmuir or Sandilands goes down with a longterm injury we'd be stuffed having to use a pinch hitter as our 2nd ruckmen. Its hard enough for our boys to get clearances with dedicated ruckmen, let alone a part timer."

If we aren't going to play 3 ruckmen in the team then the third one is going to be, by definition not as good as the other two, and presumably the other teams ruckmen (or else when they come out of contract they will seek to be traded for more opportunity). So what we have is a ruckman who actually can't match it at AFL level? How is that going to help our boys to get clearances? Clearly they will struggle even further.

The stats actually show that a winning ruckman doesn't make a huge difference to clearances, and our teams experience with that also shows that. But if there is a Mooney type who may concede ruck skills etc, but who can add something almost as a Pavlich/J Brown ruck/rover while still forcing a contest in the ruck may be just as effective. In addition we have an AFL standard player in our backline when not rucking.

I do think we need a young developing ruckman on our list, but not an AFL ready one.

 

[pav_is_god]

I do think we need a young developing ruckman on our list, but not an AFL ready one.

Thats what I mean by 3rd string.

 

[theGav56]

I wouldnt object to packaging our top pick with a player so that we could get better access to one of the better WA boys. Ie Pat Ryder at East Freo looks great. !95cm ruckman but lots of versatility. Could be a backman etc.

If we packaged a player and a pick, it would go a little way to solving the problems of our dilemma

Where do you think Ryder would go in the draft?

Assuming we are going to end up with say, pick 15, how good a player would we need to add to that to get is say pick 6? I think we'd need to add someone with a lot of potential or demonstrated ability. Not a hopeful. Perhaps a Crowley. A Dunn. Probably not a Gilmore or Woods.

I don't really know.

 

[Undertaker]

IMO we should use use our picks on drafting young players, a Ruckman and 2 tall mobile midfielders. Michael's Warren & Johnson are both tall defenders, but they need to bulk up as does Polly. Another pre season will see these guys develop even further and then go on to play an important role in the future of our club.

 

[marcy8811]

From what I have heard, Ryder has played a lot of ruck but most dont see him as a ruckman at AFL level. Mostly as a player who can pinch hit. A lot of people like his natural ability, so although they havnt seen him play a key position, they think he can hold one down. So that has seen his stocks go down. There are 2 guys in his own team likely to be taken before him in J Kennedy and M Clarke.

Most seem to think Ryder will go around 8-10 so we could be there abouts. In terms of a player who we could add in a trade, how about we gave our pick and Dion Woods to Essendon for their pick? They always seemed to have a liking for him.

 

[nurries]

Pickett would cost too much. I'd look at Armstrong for a 3rd rounder if the predicted talent left at that stage in the draft is poor in comparison.

I doubt we would go for Pickett....but imagine the havoc he and Cookie could unleash on opposition sides.

 

[dominguez]

From what I have heard, Ryder has played a lot of ruck but most dont see him as a ruckman at AFL level. Mostly as a player who can pinch hit. A lot of people like his natural ability, so although they havnt seen him play a key position, they think he can hold one down. So that has seen his stocks go down. There are 2 guys in his own team likely to be taken before him in J Kennedy and M Clarke.

Most seem to think Ryder will go around 8-10 so we could be there abouts. In terms of a player who we could add in a trade, how about we gave our pick and Dion Woods to Essendon for their pick? They always seemed to have a liking for him.

I think you're right, one of Kenneddy, Clarke and Ryder may still be available when we get our first pick, depending on the rquirements of the clubs that pick before us.

Dion Woods is worth very little, if anything at trade time. No one is going to trade a prized early draft pick for a guy who looks disinterested and isn't even playing consistent WAFL footy. We got a 5th round pick for Troy Longmuir who was in much better form when he left than Dion.

In our current ladder position we would have pick 11, but since the order is decided on where you finish after the finals hopefully our first pick will be in the high teens.

 

[Scham]

Totally agree that we should be trading for draft picks this year.

To answer another question, Warren is a definate pinch hit ruckman who can play back or forward and has the class IMO.

Ryder will go top 6 for sure. If Polak decides to leave we should secure a pick that will get us Ryder + a pick late, say 40 - 45. If we end up with pick 12 or 14 as our first pick I think Andrew Swallow or Paul Bowers will be chosen if still around.

 

[marcy8811]

I think it is quite possible that the top 4 players taken in the draft will all be midfielders. I think your right, if we finish 8th, our pick wont come till pick 13 since collingwood, Hawthorn and Carlton will likely take priority picks. If we can trade up to pick 6 or 7 without losing too much, we could definantly get one of those East freo guys.

 

[theGav56]

To answer another question, Warren is a definate pinch hit ruckman who can play back or forward and has the class IMO.

That's what I thought. Do we really need a third ruckman who can play afl next year, or a developing ruckman who might play in 3-4 years? A project.

I like the idea of Warren in the backline and pinch-hitting. Who is playing on Richardson on the weekend? Even with Haddril back we'd still have a big problem.

 

[sabre_ac]

If we get pick 15 I would as already mentioned want that pick and one or two of our players bundled for a earlier pick.
Trading Johnson could be a very real possibility, his value would have sky rocketed and there is a never ending supply of clubs needed key position backmen.
Though lets be realistic we may have to trade one of our starting players, Medhurst would have value.

 

[Rob]

Pickett would cost too much. I'd look at Armstrong for a 3rd rounder if the predicted talent left at that stage in the draft is poor in comparison.

Would he? If he's not getting a game for Port he wouldn't command any more than a late 2nd round at the earliest or one of our fringe players like Woods.

I'd trade our 3rd round pick for Pickett in a heartbeat.

 

[rgauci]

Given the situation we are in, we'll probably lose 1 player in a trade. I very much doubt we will trade for players from other clubs.

If we manage to lose a player and upgrade our picks i would be extremely happy. Especially if we landed Andrew Swallow. Another Midfielder and a true Ruckman. 200cm+.