The Future Is....

[Pafloyul]

Whippersnipper's posts are bizarre all-up.

Some side has to finish on the bottom so why not the side with the youngest (barring rookies) list? To hint that we should decide a player’s future at the club solely on our ladder position is incredibly heavy handed. You don't just delist every player that does not live up to some idealised fantasy of what these players should be. They have to be replaced and you have no guarantee that those you replace them with will be any better. I'm all for making brave trade decisions but reinvigorating and moulding a list so that it is up to scratch is a hell of a lot more subtle than making an example of all and sundry.

I think whippersnipper just has some personal gripe that wants itching.

 

[Marc Shmurf 3]

Okay, lets start with Walker. Sure, he can only play the role is given, but if he is given that role becasue his disposal is shocking, thats no-one fault but his. HE needs to work on that. And sure, he plays the role well, no question, but taggers dont win you games, or flags.


What? He averaged 19 disposals, and while that is solid, it by no means reflects the level of talent Kade has. And considering he, and I use this term very tentatively because I really rate Kade, picked most of those possessions up in a relatively cheap manner, I think it would be fair to expect much greater output from Simpson in the years to come.


I really dont understand people steadfast defence of Russell. Sure he was taken at pick 9, sure he has talent, yadda yadda. We know. But at least, he doesnt even look CLOSE to being a week in-week out AFL player. He doesnt even look comfortable in the VFL, and that is a real worry. If he had been injured, like Hartlett, I could at least understand, but he hasnt, and hast even come close to it. All I am saying, is that considering he has shown very little thus far, he needs to start showing something this year, given all the opportunities he has been presented with.

Ratten is a very poor analogy. Ratten was always willing to work hard at his game and become the champion he was later as a result. I just dont see that in Russell, and I think he absolutely needs to learn some hard yakka this year.



I know exactly what I am saying, this comment is just stupid. You may be willing to give these boys excuse after excuse to play well once a month, but I just dont tolerate third and fourth year players with that kind of attitude.

Pal, you watched a NAB cup game yet. Guys in previous years that have torn us apart because of our lack of attention or 30 min of brilliant footy have been stopped by Russell.

The Russell scalps so far this year with responsibility.

1. Vs Essendon Russell had Stanton. Dont remember him having any influence on the game at all.
2. Vs Hawthorn Russell had Bateman, a menace to us all the time. Other than a handfull of possies he did nothing to mention.
3. Vs Kangaroos Russell on Harvey, a game winner. Other than 1 goal hand no impact on the game and was well held.
4. to a lesser extent - Intra Club praccie match Vs Simpson - Smothered him completely to the point whereby simpson got so frustrated with him that there was a blew between the 2.

Ive been very impressed with the jobs he has done this year. He can play on the likes of Embley, O'keefe, Dal Santo, and so on. The taller more athletic type outside onballers.

The kid is only 20, played just over 10 games and now has a roll to fill in this side.

 

[Smell The Glove]

I'm glad you said if, however making this comment is still misleading. You have no evidence of causality. In fact i put forward a more plausible argument is that he is given that role because he is bloody good at it.

You argument makes no sense. Give me one player as talented as Walker that is playing as a tagger in his fourth year. My argument is clearly more plausible than yours.

19 possessions a game in a reasonably even midfield is nothing to scoff at. He and Walks are the two of our players most likely to take off with the ball, break the lines and take blokes on. Simmo's first instinct is to run. IMO if he does this 19 times a game it is far more valuable than racking up an extra 8 cheap possesions with give and go handballs or stuffing around with the ball laterally across half back.

This argument does really make snse. I am not saying that I am disappointed with his output, I am saying that he needs to improve his ball winning ability.

Whippersnipper's posts are bizarre all-up.

Some side has to finish on the bottom so why not the side with the youngest (barring rookies) list? To hint that we should decide a player’s future at the club solely on our ladder position is incredibly heavy handed. You don't just delist every player that does not live up to some idealised fantasy of what these players should be. They have to be replaced and you have no guarantee that those you replace them with will be any better. I'm all for making brave trade decisions but reinvigorating and moulding a list so that it is up to scratch is a hell of a lot more subtle than making an example of all and sundry.

Yes, someone does have to finish on the bottom. But given we have been there the last two years, I think its reasonable to expect that it shouldnt be us again this year. The fact remains that if these players have learnt anything the last two years, we shouldnt be a wooden spoon side again.

To quote you:

Some side has to finish on the bottom so why not the side with the youngest (barring rookies) list?

Well what the hell happened in 2002? We sure as hell didnt have the youngest list then. Its about talent, simple as that. And on paper, our list is cerrtainly not the worst in the league. And now these players have actually got some experience, they really dont have any excuse.

I think whippersnipper just has some personal gripe that wants itching.

My gripe is supporters with blind faith. You are one of them

Pal, you watched a NAB cup game yet. Guys in previous years that have torn us apart because of our lack of attention or 30 min of brilliant footy have been stopped by Russell.

The Russell scalps so far this year with responsibility.

1. Vs Essendon Russell had Stanton. Dont remember him having any influence on the game at all.
2. Vs Hawthorn Russell had Bateman, a menace to us all the time. Other than a handfull of possies he did nothing to mention.
3. Vs Kangaroos Russell on Harvey, a game winner. Other than 1 goal hand no impact on the game and was well held.
4. to a lesser extent - Intra Club praccie match Vs Simpson - Smothered him completely to the point whereby simpson got so frustrated with him that there was a blew between the 2.

Ive been very impressed with the jobs he has done this year. He can play on the likes of Embley, O'keefe, Dal Santo, and so on. The taller more athletic type outside onballers.

The kid is only 20, played just over 10 games and now has a roll to fill in this side.

I'm waiting until the real stuff. My post simply says that guys like Russell need to start performing this year. I fRussell performs as well as you expect then there shouldnt be any problem.

 

[Salaryman]

You argument makes no sense. Give me one player as talented as Walker that is playing as a tagger in his fourth year. My argument is clearly more plausible than yours.


This argument does really make snse. I am not saying that I am disappointed with his output, I am saying that he needs to improve his ball winning ability.


Yes, someone does have to finish on the bottom. But given we have been there the last two years, I think its reasonable to expect that it shouldnt be us again this year. The fact remains that if these players have learnt anything the last two years, we shouldnt be a wooden spoon side again.

To quote you:

Well what the hell happened in 2002? We sure as hell didnt have the youngest list then. Its about talent, simple as that. And on paper, our list is cerrtainly not the worst in the league. And now these players have actually got some experience, they really dont have any excuse.


My gripe is supporters with blind faith. You are one of them



I'm waiting until the real stuff. My post simply says that guys like Russell need to start performing this year. I fRussell performs as well as you expect then there shouldnt be any problem.

Brett Kirk has made an entire career out of it.

I give up, you're simply a tool. How can my argument make no sense? How can you attirbute causality to AW's role unless you are on the match committee, making the decision? I suggest you pop down to the local library and check out a book on the philosophy of science. Somebody very wise once said to me you can't argue against ignorance, so I am bowing out of this one.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Brett Kirk has made an entire career out of it.

I give up, you're simply a tool. How can my argument make no sense? How can you attirbute causality to AW's role unless you are on the match committee, making the decision? I suggest you pop down to the local library and check out a book on the philosophy of science. Somebody very wise once said to me you can't argue against ignorance, so I am bowing out of this one.

Kirk doesnt possess the natural talent that Walker has. Hard working and supremly fit yes, but not as talented. And how are you so sure that Walker ISNT a tagger because of his disposal? Being just a touch hypocritical, aren't we?

Ignorance is supporters who cant deal with the fact that there are suddenly no longer an excuse for their team. I see I cannot convince otherwise, so I too will bow out.

 

[Monkey King]

My post simply says that guys like Russell need to start performing this year.

I suggest you re-read your post whippersnapper. You stated guys like Russell MUST PERFORM EACH AND EVERY WEEK, or else it signifies that they aren't up to it and must be delisted. Don't backtrack!

That age (20yo) and inexperience (11 games) can no longer be used as excuses. Mate, it is a reality I suggest you accept. Russell is young and inexperienced. No excuses, just facts!

 

[Smell The Glove]

I suggest you re-read your post whippersnapper. You stated guys like Russell MUST PERFORM EACH AND EVERY WEEK, or else it signifies that they aren't up to it and must be delisted. Don't backtrack!

That age (20yo) and inexperience (11 games) can no longer be used as excuses. Mate, it is a reality I suggest you accept. Russell is young and inexperienced. No excuses, just facts!

Performing each and every week doesnt necessarily mean picking up 25 possessions every week. I never said that. It may mean, as in Russell's case, being in the side each and every week, barring injury, and perhaps moving aside occasionally for other players. I am saying, that after two full year and three full pre-seasons, a guy like Russell cannot rely on putting in an effort once every three or four weeks, it has to be each week, no excuses.

Games played is irrelavent- he has been in the system long ewnough to establish himself, and hasnt done so. There, he needs to do that this year, by performing each week and making sure he is in the side on a regular basis on merit.

 

[Monkey King]

Performing each and every week doesnt necessarily mean picking up 25 possessions every week. I never said that. It may mean, as in Russell's case, being in the side each and every week, barring injury, and perhaps moving aside occasionally for other players. I am saying, that after two full year and three full pre-seasons, a guy like Russell cannot rely on putting in an effort once every three or four weeks, it has to be each week, no excuses.

OK I give up. This is getting weird.

My last word on this matter - Jordan Russell is a 20yo and only 11 games into his career. He's certainly not next in line for the chopping block, so cut the kid a break.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Performing each and every week doesnt necessarily mean picking up 25 possessions every week. I never said that. It may mean, as in Russell's case, being in the side each and every week, barring injury, and perhaps moving aside occasionally for other players. I am saying, that after two full year and three full pre-seasons, a guy like Russell cannot rely on putting in an effort once every three or four weeks, it has to be each week, no excuses.

Games played is irrelavent- he has been in the system long ewnough to establish himself, and hasnt done so. There, he needs to do that this year, by performing each week and making sure he is in the side on a regular basis on merit.

You need to use the club player profiles more, when making statements like Have had long enough on the list. Must perform each and every week. Other than walker the young guys you are talking about have very little senior game time up. Yes they need to show more this year, just don't go expecting super stars over night!

Personally i think walker had a great first year, then dieded off. he does need to take the game and control carlton defence more, id like to see him as a rr!

As for russell the kid has some thing special to work with, not a wasted pick at all just needs some more experience in the big time! Was impressive in the nab against the hawkas! Our midfielders are no slackers by any means! Drafted in 2004 pick 9 ,Two years with the club really suffering from home sickness & 2nd years blues. An obvious assett to the club with his pace in the midfeild.

As for simpson i dont know much about this player, but he debuted in 2005 (draft pick no 45 in 2002) playing 21 games in his first year (qouting the footy record here page 33) and in his second senoir season played 22 games Averaging 19 disposal a game. A left footer who runs of the wing!

Jeeze whipper Snipper you really need to follow you're footy more closely especially if you want to chat on a forum about the blues. Russel and simpson has barely had time to cut there teeth in the afl and you are already calling for there necks. Russells a classic 2nd year blues and Simpson has played 43 possiable games out of 44 games in two senior years.

You really have just shown you speak before you think and you have no thricken idea about your own foot ball team. It is great you want to chat, but i think you need to watch some more footy and read some player profiles before you start an arguement you clearly cant win!

If simpson was a hawk to date id be content with his preformance. If i were a blue bagger id be concerned about

Houlihan
mclaren
Wiggins

Good luck with catching up on your footy team info!

 

[Jeremias]

You need to use the club player profiles more, when making statements like Have had long enough on the list. Must perform each and every week. Other than walker the young guys you are talking about have very little senior game time up. Yes they need to show more this year, just don't go expecting super stars over night!

Personally i think walker had a great first year, then dieded off. he does need to take the game and control carlton defence more, id like to see him as a rr!

As for russell the kid has some thing special to work with, not a wasted pick at all just needs some more experience in the big time! Was impressive in the nab against the hawkas! Our midfielders are no slackers by any means! Drafted in 2004 pick 9 ,Two years with the club really suffering from home sickness & 2nd years blues. An obvious assett to the club with his pace in the midfeild.

As for simpson i dont know much about this player, but he debuted in 2005 (draft pick no 45 in 2002) playing 21 games in his first year (qouting the footy record here page 33) and in his second senoir season played 22 games Averaging 19 disposal a game. A left footer who runs of the wing!

Jeeze whipper Snipper you really need to follow you're footy more closely especially if you want to chat on a forum about the blues. Russel and simpson has barely had time to cut there teeth in the afl and you are already calling for there necks. Russells a classic 2nd year blues and Simpson has played 43 possiable games out of 44 games in two senior years.

You really have just shown you speak before you think and you have no thricken idea about your own foot ball team. It is great you want to chat, but i think you need to watch some more footy and read some player profiles before you start an arguement you clearly cant win!

If simpson was a hawk to date id be content with his preformance. If i were a blue bagger id be concerned about

Houlihan
mclaren
Wiggins

Good luck with catching up on your footy team info!

Your info is WAY off re: Simmo.

And I'm not too worried about the Wiggler any more.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Your info is WAY off re: Simmo.

And I'm not too worried about the Wiggler any more.

Theres only one simpson listed in the footy record for carlton and that is kade simpon. page 33 & 38

"Turned a promising 2005 season into a super 2006. Playing all 22 matchs, combined with exciting runs off a wing. Averaged 19 disposals a game ect ect.
jumper no 6.
dob 5/5/84
182 cm 77 kg
eastern u/18
debute 2003
2006 23 games
2006 11 goals

Way of how? the fact i made a typo with debute 2005?

 

[Johnny_3]

If simpson was a hawk to date id be content with his preformance. If i were a blue bagger id be concerned about

Houlihan
mclaren
Wiggins

Good luck with catching up on your footy team info!

Definently mclaren and wiggins. not so much houla. love the guy

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Theres only one simpson listed in the footy record for carlton and that is kade simpon. page 33 & 38

"Turned a promising 2005 season into a super 2006. Playing all 22 matchs, combined with exciting runs off a wing. Averaged 19 disposals a game ect ect.
jumper no 6.
dob 5/5/84
182 cm 77 kg
eastern u/18
debute 2003
2006 23 games
2006 11 goals

Way of how? the fact i made a typo with debute 2005?

As i stated orignally i knew very little about the guy, but going of the profiles both on line and in the footy record i still wouldnt be stressed. showing plenty of improvement.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/TheClub/Players/PlayerProfile/tabid/7854/playerid/14066/Default.aspx

Kade Simpson


Fast Facts

Jumper No: 6
Height: 182
Weight: 76
DOB: 1984-05-05 00:00:00
Recruited From: Emerald/Eastern U18
Career Matches: 21
Career Goals: 10



2006 Home & Away Totals

Matches: 22
Goals: 11
Marks: 147
Disposals: 420
Kicks: 296



About

One of the positive stories to emerge from a disappointing season, Simpson showed in the latter half of 2005 that he is a player in the making. Played in the pre-season premiership, but could not hold down a permanent spot in the senior side. However, played nine of the last 10 games, missing one game through injury, and his pace and skill saw him earn a Rising Star nomination in round 18.
Records

Draft history: 2002 National AFL Draft 4th round selection (Carlton) No. 45 overall.
Awards Honours

NAB AFL Rising Star nominee 2005; pre-season premiership side 2005.

 

[Jeremias]

Simmo only played like 3 games in his first 2 years, all of which he got 0 possessions in.

He most certainly has not missed only one game since joining the club.

 

[Blues_Man]

Miss Hawks fan is a revelation ..an opposition supporter who speaks from a platform of obvious football knowledge, and has a good understanding of our list and where we are in the premiership race .
I just wish there were a few more like her .

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Simmo only played like 3 games in his first 2 years, all of which he got 0 possessions in.

He most certainly has not missed only one game since joining the club.

I stand corrected, how ever this is one point you have made. The way you was speaking i thought i must of got the wrong player profile ( i was thinking if i had got the wrong player profile, man wont i feel like a total idiot!) That is how ever how i read the profile on simmo.

Still no concern the guys just come off a season where he played 22 games and averaged 19 possession. Thats a good season for any player & shows improvment!

 

[btdg]

Just to have my two bobs worth on the Russell argument - I watched him play last year, and agree with Whippersnapper's assessment to some extent - he showed absolutely nothing in his limited appearances, and from there, he'd want to show something this year to justify his continued appearance. But watching pre-season games this year, he has been markedly improved. Maybe the pace of pre-season is slower, but he seems physically more confident, and now looks like a genuine player. If he keeps that up when the real stuff starts - even if he doesn't set the world on fire - it would be enough improvement to be satisfied with at this stage. We have to be patient with him - he's still young, and it looks like he is getting there...

And I also agree on Walker - he hasn't been as good as anticipated, and as he reaches his peak, his limitations are becoming obvious. That said, he is still very good, just in a more limited role - he's become an extremely good half-back flanker who can pinch-hit in the middle. Thats not quite the all-powerful dominating midfielder we expected after his debut match, but he is still a very good player (and still getting better). I doubt he'll ever be a genuine mid-fielder, as he just lacks that poise, but he's a very good player and a cruicial part of our team going forward.

Simpson has been fantastic. No arguments there.

 

[TorresIsGod]

The Future Is... Banno!!!!

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Miss Hawks fan is a revelation ..an opposition supporter who speaks from a platform of obvious football knowledge, and has a good understanding of our list and where we are in the premiership race .
I just wish there were a few more like her .

Cheers Blue Man

What can i say i love my footy

 

[Jeremias]

The Future Is... Banno!!!!

We are talking about Carlton here...not the Bullants...

 

[TorresIsGod]

Yep, and the future for Carlton is definately Jordan Bannister!!!

 

[Blue Dawn]

Definently mclaren and wiggins. not so much houla. love the guy

True. Don't know about 'love' but his output and consistency has certainly improved the last year or so. Looks to have muscled up a bit too. In for another big year i think.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Yep, and the future for Carlton is definately Jordan Bannister!!!

If Jordan Bannister is the future of Carlton, then Eddie Maquire will be the next Queen of England! (Why the hell not, he has his finger in every other pie)

 

[TorresIsGod]

If Jordan Bannister is the future of Carlton, then Eddie Maquire will be the next Queen of England! (Why the hell not, he has his finger in every other pie)

Banno!!!

 

[BlueWorld]

http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-index.php?page=Kade+Simpson

Debuted in 2003 and took 4 games to get his first possession.