Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

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cartwright

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Do you get paid less than your male counterparts? If so, why?

Now? No. But in the past? Yes.

Because I’ve made sure I ask for a pay increase and opportunities. I learnt early if you don’t ask - you get nothing.

Like I said in this thread the pay gap is shrinking. That’s due to a few things - and a big reason imo it’s because women are asking for fair wages and increases.
 

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fleabitten

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Now? No. But in the past? Yes.

Because I’ve made sure I ask for a pay increase and opportunities. I learnt early if you don’t ask - you get nothing.

Like I said in this thread the pay gap is shrinking. That’s due to a few things - and a big reason imo it’s because women are asking for fair wages and increases.

Well feminists should talk to women about being grown ups rather than shrieking at everyone else for being sexist. Men don't tend to get pay increases out of the blue without asking either.
 

cartwright

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Well feminists should talk to women about being grown ups rather than shrieking at everyone else for being sexist. Men don't tend to get pay increases out of the blue without asking either.

I’ve already stated that women are educating younger women to ask for payrises and opportunities.

What is often talked about - is how girls are inadvertently taught to ‘be quiet, don’t ask for things, don’t be demanding, don’t be “bossy” ’. This carries to the real world and has implications.
It’s not about not being a grown up. It’s shifting from previous experiences and ingrained expectations.
 

sorted

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Like I said in this thread the pay gap is shrinking. That’s due to a few things - and a big reason imo it’s because women are asking for fair wages and increases.

When you compare males and females in similar roles and with the same level of experience there's no gender pay gap at all.
 

Toump Ass

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When you compare males and females in similar roles and with the same level of experience there's no gender pay gap at all.
The gender pay gap will be comparable for two male and female graduates, but is likely to increase as they get older (ie: when women marry and have kids etc.)

It's much less likely to see women in senior management roles and when they are, they're generally in lower paid industries.

Facts!
 

ShanDog

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The gender pay gap will be comparable for two male and female graduates, but is likely to increase as they get older (ie: when women marry and have kids etc.)

It's much less likely to see women in senior management roles and when they are, they're generally in lower paid industries.

Facts!
And? Why? What's to be done about this?
 

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The gender pay gap will be comparable for two male and female graduates, but is likely to increase as they get older (ie: when women marry and have kids etc.)

The bolded part makes no sense.

Women getting married won't make a difference to their pay. Dropping out of the workforce to look after children will curtail the level of experience, miss out on promotions and annual pay rises. This applies to men or women who stay at home to look after children. I don't what the 'etc' is.
 

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Toump Ass

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The bolded part makes no sense.
gender pay gap increases over time, makes sense i think.

Women getting married won't make a difference to their pay. Dropping out of the workforce to look after children will curtail the level of experience, miss out on promotions and annual pay rises.
all true. but i dont think thats the only reason.

I think the reasons for the pay gap are a bit more complicated.
 

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gender pay gap increases over time, makes sense i think.

all true. but i dont think thats the only reason.

I think the reasons for the pay gap are a bit more complicated.

Because "reasons". Sometimes "complicated reasons".

I'm calling bullshit.
 

Toump Ass

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Agreed for the first two, but the devil is in the detail for the latter.
I think the first step to fixing it is acknowledging it exists and recognising the role discrimination & bias plays in hiring and pay decisions. Which is happening thankfully.

Companies paying women's super while they're off having kids would be beneficial, as would more flexibility in senior management roles so women can look after little people & do their (unfair) share of domestic stuff.

Women are brought up to be complaisant and polite and told if they rock the boat they'll end up childless and unloved at age 40 so consequently they don't end up chasing kick ass jobs because they're not supposed to. Thankfully this is also changing and that's why I think feminism is awesome (that's another thread though sorry).

Edit: whoops looks like that last point was already made thanks cartwright
 
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ShanDog

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I think the first step to fixing it is acknowledging it exists and recognising the role discrimination & bias plays in hiring and pay decisions. Which is happening thankfully.
Discrimination against hiring women is illegal and rightfully. I would suggest that this occurring is a rare exception. Bias is harder to determine and may be more prevalent. Given the public push to address these issues, I'd like to think they are slowly being mitigated.

Women are brought up to be complacent and polite and told if they rock the boat they'll end up childless and unloved at age 40 so consequently they don't end up chasing kick ass jobs because they're not supposed to. Thankfully this is also changing and that's why I think feminism is awesome (that's another thread though sorry).
I really think that is true of 30 years ago but not today. Empowerment of women has been the dominant narrative of media and education for a long time now. The most recent generations of girls would very rarely come across the messages you are talking about. Perhaps the earnings gap will be eroded over time as the lag between generations and the as-of-today stats closes.

So while I largely agree with what you're saying (even if I don't quite have the same critical or pessimistic view), one of the biggest issues associated with talk about the "pay gap" isn't about what feminist ideology is doing for women, it's about what collectivist ideology is saying we should do to fix it. That's the concerns I have.
 

Toump Ass

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Discrimination against hiring women is illegal and rightfully. I would suggest that this occurring is a rare exception. Bias is harder to determine and may be more prevalent. Given the public push to address these issues, I'd like to think they are slowly being mitigated.
AFAIK the gender pay gap in Australia is being reduced so I agree these issues are being mitigated.

On the first point I don't believe discrimination is as simple as women not being hired. It can be a touch more subtle than that.

I really think that is true of 30 years ago but not today. Empowerment of women has been the dominant narrative of media and education for a long time now. The most recent generations of girls would very rarely come across the messages you are talking about. Perhaps the earnings gap will be eroded over time as the lag between generations and the as-of-today stats closes.
Not as bluntly. But in my mind this message certainly exists still; (ie: the AFL giving the women's league two seasons before reducing it into a gimmick)

it's about what collectivist ideology is saying we should do to fix it. That's the concerns I have.
The million dollar question!
 

Sainteric

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The bolded part makes no sense.

Women getting married won't make a difference to their pay. Dropping out of the workforce to look after children will curtail the level of experience, miss out on promotions and annual pay rises. This applies to men or women who stay at home to look after children. I don't what the 'etc' is.
A lot of it is to do with union agreements.

Unions tend to have agreements with employers where you progress multiple steps purely on full time service and if you work part time you progress slower, if you take time off you don't progress at all. No merit based pay, I laugh when I here the ACTU bring up gender based pay, they cause a lot of it.
 

fleabitten

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Women are brought up to be complacent and polite and told if they rock the boat they'll end up childless and unloved at age 40 so consequently they don't end up chasing kick ass jobs because they're not supposed to.

If you think about the 5 women closest to you, how many fit that description? I'm at 0/5.
 

TheWoodenSlug

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If you think about the 5 women closest to you, how many fit that description? I'm at 0/5.

1/5 for me. My mum is polite to a fault; which is just a nicer way to say she is a complete push over. Not sure if that's to do with how she was raised or if it's just her personality. I'm a dude, but have inherited a lot of these traits, which is more than likely part of the reason my wife earns far more than I do - she's way more assertive than me; which is just a nicer way to say she is a complete bitch*.




* Just in case: that's a joke of course, she's easily the best person I know/have met.
 

Barry_Badrinath

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Companies paying women's super while they're off having kids would be beneficial, as would more flexibility in senior management roles so women can look after little people & do their (unfair) share of domestic stuff.

Just browsing through this thread and this comment caught my attention. Why do you mean by this? In what ways could senior positions be made more flexible that could be beneficial for women?
 

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