Religion The God Question - part 2

[Roylion]

I didn't say it was. What a curious link to make.

So which 'great flood' are you talking about?

 

[Duritz]

So which 'great flood' are you talking about?

The one to which the bible refers. However I did not suggest it covered the entire world.

 

[Boston tiger]

So we can discount the following literal interpretations of the Great Flood and place it on a far smaller and far more common scale. Noah and his family were survivors of a much, much smaller flood, that perhaps stretched over the river valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers sometime in antiquity. Maybe his name was Gilgamesh.

Genesis 7.4 "Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

Genesis 7.19 "They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered."

Genesis 7.21 "Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind."



Only in the respect that regional floods happen naturally and frequently. Not divinely inspired at all.

Im thinking if someone is silly enough to build a big boat before it rains and then it rains like hell .. the size of the flood isn't probably the story. Wouldn't take much for it to gain in mythical proportions.

 

[Duritz]

So we can discount the following literal interpretations of the Great Flood and place it on a far smaller and far more common scale. Noah and his family were survivors of a much, much smaller flood, that perhaps stretched over the river valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers sometime in antiquity. Maybe his name was Gilgamesh.

Genesis 7.4 "Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

Genesis 7.19 "They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered."

Genesis 7.21 "Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind."



Only in the respect that regional floods happen naturally and frequently. Not divinely inspired at all.

Lol, OK... so the issue is that you took the bible literally. A book that was written ~2000 years ago, and has been translated more times than any other, and you took the English version literally.

Lol.

There was a great flood. It didn't cover the earth. Moving on.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Lol, OK... so the issue is that you took the bible literally. A book that was written ~2000 years ago, and has been translated more times than any other, and you took the English version literally.

Lol.

There was a great flood. It didn't cover the earth. Moving on.

What are thoughts on the god question mate?

 

[M Malice]

Im thinking if someone is silly enough to build a big boat before it rains and then it rains like hell .. the size of the flood isn't probably the story. Wouldn't take much for it to gain in mythical proportions.

you are describing the whole bible/institutionalized religion there BT. old world superstitions put forward to explain the at the time completely natural phenomena ie. floods, earthquakes, lightning, thunder. embellishment at its finest.

welcome to the god question Roylion, love your logic and commonsense as usual.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Only in the respect that regional floods happen naturally and frequently. Not divinely inspired at all.

I'll ask you to allow your imagination some freedom here....A flood took place, as is common....The work of the Gods or nature?

In those times there was no distinction between the 2.....A pantheist would have no trouble with marrying the 2 together.

It is you who are casting a modern, literal, atheist interpretation.

Learn to both grasp & allow for historical 'mind-sets' when you critique a work & drop this contemporary, one-dimensional, flat-earth perspective.....Along with it's pretense at 'objectivism'.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Lol, OK... so the issue is that you took the bible literally. A book that was written ~2000 years ago, and has been translated more times than any other, and you took the English version literally.

Lol.

There was a great flood. It didn't cover the earth. Moving on.

How should one read the Bible? We've gone over this time and again and then new Muppets come in and say the same literal/metaphor rhetoric. Seriously, what is the point of the book if the whole bloody thing should be taken with a grain of salt?

 

[Boston tiger]

you are describing the whole bible/institutionalized religion there BT. old world superstitions put forward to explain the at the time completely natural phenomena ie. floods, earthquakes, lightning, thunder. embellishment at its finest.

welcome to the god question Roylion, love your logic and commonsense as usual.

The flood didn't make the story. It was someone building a boat in readiness for the flood that made the story.

We don't need superstition to explain rain .. it's been flooding raining since the year dot. Humans don't run to God because it's raining people run to God because ..who created the creator. You sell out ancestors way too short.

 

[Roylion]

The one to which the bible refers.

And which great flood was that?

You know, the one you said was in the archaeological record.

 

[The Unforgiven]

I'll ask you to allow your imagination some freedom here....A flood took place, as is common....The work of the Gods or nature?

In those times there was no distinction between the 2.....A pantheist would have no trouble with marrying the 2 together.

It is you who are casting a modern, literal, atheist interpretation.

Learn to both grasp & allow for historical 'mind-sets' when you critique a work & drop this contemporary, one-dimensional, flat-earth perspective.....Along with it's pretense at 'objectivism'.

Or perhaps we can just say that the Bible now holds zero relevance to life in the 21st century?

 

[chelseacarlton]

The flood didn't make the story. It was someone building a boat in readiness for the flood that made the story.
You sell out ancestors way too short.

 

[Procrastinator35]

And which great flood was that?

You know, the one you said was in the archaeological record.

Personally, I have no issue with a once in millennia local flood event....It's hardly a stretch.

 

[The Unforgiven]

The flood didn't make the story. It was someone building a boat in readiness for the flood that made the story.

We don't need superstition to explain rain .. it's been flooding raining since the year dot. Humans don't run to God because it's raining people run to God because ..who created the creator. You sell out ancestors way too short.

No one created a creator because there was no creator. Humans developed God in their own psyche as a necessity throughout a period of time where certain things back then were devoid of logical explanation.

You believe in a creator because you're indoctrinated. Your parents took you along to church and brainwashed you from young and now you cannot break free from the imprinting on your brain which happened prior to you reaching the age of reason.

 

[Boston tiger]

View attachment 309662
View attachment 309663

Ha ha ... reminds me of my navy days.

 

[Boston tiger]

No one created a creator because there was no creator. Humans developed God in their own psyche as a necessity throughout a period of time where certain things back then were devoid of logical explanation.

You believe in a creator because you're indoctrinated. Your parents took you along to church and brainwashed you from young and now you cannot break free from the imprinting on your brain which happened prior to you reaching the age of reason.

How do you know there is no creator?

 

[The Unforgiven]

How do you know there is no creator?

I don't. How do you know there is? Because the Bible says so?

 

[Roylion]

I'll ask you to allow your imagination some freedom here....A flood took place, as is common....The work of the Gods or nature?

Nature of course. Floods, both large and small, were, and are, common. 'God' or 'The Gods' don't enter into it.

In those times there was no distinction between the 2.....

Mesopotamian religion, where the Great Flood myth originated, certainly involved the worship of forces of nature, at least early on. But by the third millennium BC these objects of worship become personified and became a large cast of divinities with particular functions. The God of Water, the God of Thunder (which was the original function of Yahweh/Jehovah/God) and so on. Eventually the Mesopotamians introduced greater emphasis on personal religion and structured the gods into a hierarchy with the national god being the head of the pantheon. Then some cultures adopted that god as their one personal god...to become the only god.

That's my point...the story is so obviously a myth, and while it clearly based as it is on a localised, regional flood, it is as an event nothing particularly remarkable, despite its' prominence in the Book of Genesis, most likely compiled in the 6th century BC.

It is you who are casting a modern, literal, atheist interpretation.

Interpretation? What interpretation should I be adopting?

Learn to both grasp & allow for historical 'mind-sets' when you critique a work & drop this contemporary, one-dimensional, flat-earth perspective.....Along with it's pretense at 'objectivism'.

'Objectivism'? My point was, and is, that a global flood obviously did not occur and the Noah myth story is based on what is a relatively unremarkable flood event. Of course Genesis shouldn't be taken literally.

 

[Duritz]

What are thoughts on the god question mate?

That I don't have enough information to make an informed decision, and in that respect I think dogmatic affirmations and denials are as ill informed as each other.

My hunch? It means little of course but I'd be surprised if we are all there is. Very bloody surprised.

 

[Procrastinator35]

N

'Objectivism'? My point was, and is, that a global flood obviously did not occur and the Noah myth story is based on what is a relatively unremarkable flood event. Of course Genesis shouldn't be taken literally.

How can you know that?....For the people in those times, Mesopotamia & the Mediterranean was their world....They had no idea about globalism.

Starting to see my projected interpretation point as yet?

For all we know, the flood was extensive & a once in millennia event....That would explain why it's in all the literature....It also informs an archetypal, psychic human fear/dream.

 

[Boston tiger]

I don't. How do you know there is? Because the Bible says so?

See you can't do this can you?

 

[Boston tiger]

That I don't have enough information to make an informed decision, and in that respect I think dogmatic affirmations and denials are as ill informed as each other.

My hunch? It means little of course but I'd be surprised if we are all there is. Very bloody surprised.

Tell him about that fellow you told me about. You know the guy that combines alot of spiritual things etc . You know the one who says we won't understand because we don't have the language for it.
Apologies if I've mixed you up with someone.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[The Unforgiven]

See you can't do this can you?

I beg your pardon?

 

[M Malice]

We don't need superstition to explain rain .. it's been flooding raining since the year dot. Humans don't run to God because it's raining people run to God because ..who created the creator. You sell out ancestors way too short.

not any more, a few thousand years ago yes IMO. thunder- the gods rumbling. lightning- the gods mighty hand coming down to smite the sinners. etc....

our ancestors logic- why is this happening to us? it is quite simple to explain the need our ancestors had for a god/s. i have said it a hundred times but it bears repeating- god/s of the gaps. there is plenty of information out there, couple of short ones here. very logical, have a look at the links.

http://humansarefree.com/2013/06/the-island-where-dead-us-soldier-is.html

 

[Roylion]

How can you know that?....For the people in those times, Mesopotamia & the Mediterranean was their world....They had no idea about globalism.

How can I know that? Because we in the modern world through the disciplines of archaeology, geology and the like are well aware of the relative sizes of flood events both in our own time and in the past.

Starting to see my projected interpretation point as yet?

Your point is obviously that the people at the time saw whatever flood event the Noah myth is referring to as large and cataclysmic. Yes, that's obvious. That they were inspired to construct a story of it being of supernatural origins, based on their own world view and scope (which compared to ours in the modern world is obviously more limited) is also obvious. They used their own existing extensive mythology to place that story in their cultural context.

Yes.....and?

For all we know, the flood was extensive & a once in millennia event....That would explain why it's in all the literature....It also informs an archetypal, psychic human fear/dream.

Human literature. Human fear/dream. Indeed.

The supernatural aspect of the story is obviously an invented embellishment.