List Mgmt. The Goldstein Preuss Issue

[The Nostradamus]

Goldstein for Josh Kelly or Dylan Shiel?

Would you do it?

Yes where do I sign?

 

[boneofshin]

You want to trade Goldstein based on Preuss beating up on a kid in a preseason game?

Do you not remember Dan Currie owning Geelong in the same circumstances a few seasons ago?

Short term memories on this board.

Exactly what I was thinking. The Dan Currie hype was serious in that pre-season. It didn't last long once he played some senior games.

I do have a bit more faith in Preuss though.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Preuss doesn't really change the issue - it's still the Goldstein issue.

Goldy is our most valuable player by some stretch. There will be the same choice we have every trade season for the past few years - when we have developed a guy to be this good, do we take the benefit for our own team now or invest it in potential that may come good in a few years time. And as soon as he isn't at his peak and we can better face life without him, his value drops correspondingly for other clubs. The year the rules change to favour genuinely good ruckmen seems an odd time to trade him away - or a brilliant time, depending on your point of view and what the return could be.

Preuss looks promising. He may turn out to be ok. But having an OK ruckman to play seniors has never been the issue.

 

[jclei]

If we see an uninjured Goldy this year I don't think we would consider trading him. If his body is starting to feel it after being our sole ruckman for some time though and plays like 2016 then the future should be Preuss all the way

206cm, 109kg and an appetite to hurt people. He must be our future.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

I'm not sure what this board is better at, over inflating the tyres of a youngster that has a good game or ripping into one of our whipping boys after a bad skill error.

Preuss was good today against another VFL standard ruckman, but all this talk about decisions having to be made our else he'll want to leave is just plain ridiculous.

Preuss had 8 disposals today, if Goldie had 8 there would be bitching and moaning about him not doing enough around the ground.

Let the bloke develop before anointing him the chosen one.

 

[Gasometer]

Exactly what I was thinking. The Dan Currie hype was serious in that pre-season. It didn't last long once he played some senior games.

I do have a bit more faith in Preuss though.

It lasted with me right past that 35 point come from behind loss to the Crows.

Had Dan the Man being playing it would never have happened.

 

[Gasometer]

I'm not sure what this board is better at, over inflating the tyres of a youngster that has a good game or ripping into one of our whipping boys after a bad skill error.

Preuss was good today against another VFL standard ruckman, but all this talk about decisions having to be made our else he'll want to leave is just plain ridiculous.

Preuss had 8 disposals today, if Goldie had 8 there would be bitching and moaning about him not doing enough around the ground.

Let the bloke develop before anointing him the chosen one.

This board is good at defending the indefensible.

Stein look.

 

[darko]

Preuss looks good but he has long ways to go still.

 

[sbdan]

Tarrant is 28, Ziebell will be 27, Higgins 29. Let's get rid of them all.

You're on fire!

 

[LT Smash]

Todd Goldstein is 28 years old.

And would have to get back to his best in order to garner any interest from other clubs. In which case we'd be wanting to keep him anyway. On 2016 results, he was worth no more than a late second round pick.

 

[LT Smash]

Goldstein for Josh Kelly or Dylan Shiel?

Would you do it?

Of course. But they would want our first or early second round pick as well.

 

[Tas]

Now that we aren't carrying Petrie around in the side, we should play with a second ruckman who is on the pine. With a limit on rotations there is no point having 4 midfielders on the pine, we saw almost every week one of them getting almost no game time last year.

Ben Brown should never go up in a ruck contest ever again, not just because he is shithouse as a ruckman, he is more valuable as a key forward.

Our desired structure is Brown (FF), Waite(CHF), Wood (HFF) up forward with Goldy the main ruck and either Daw or Preuss on the pine. Preuss is young, big, strong and aggressive. We could use him strategically to soften up ruckmen and then Goldy comes on who runs them all over the park.

I think Goldy's ToG should be reduced to about 85%, have a few stints forward, same as the 2nd ruckman. We should have the expectation that with a few more breaks he will get around the ground more aggressively than he did last year.

It was just difficult carrying a 2nd ruckman in the side last year when we had Petrie sitting up forward when Brown/Waite were the main targets, there was no real scope for Goldy to push forward for a break or to have a ruckman on the pine.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

I'm not sure what this board is better at, over inflating the tyres of a youngster that has a good game or ripping into one of our whipping boys after a bad skill error.

Preuss was good today against another VFL standard ruckman, but all this talk about decisions having to be made our else he'll want to leave is just plain ridiculous.

Preuss had 8 disposals today, if Goldie had 8 there would be bitching and moaning about him not doing enough around the ground.

Let the bloke develop before anointing him the chosen one.

Exactly.

Let's not sit around giving each other wristies on the back of an OK performance against a reserves ruckman.

He is a promising, developing specialist ruckman should Goldstein and Daw both go down. There's no delimma or decision.

 

[RobZombie]

Exactly.

Let's not sit around giving each other wristies on the back of an OK performance against a reserves ruckman.

He is a promising, developing specialist ruckman should Goldstein and Daw both go down. There's no delimma or decision.

Don't think they both need to go down. I'd rather see Preuss step straight into Goldy's role and leave Daw primarily forward if it came to that. At the very least for this year Preuss has shown enough that we can handle Goldy more conservatively rather than running the poor bastard into the ground if he's carrying niggles.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Don't think they both need to go down. I'd rather see Preuss step straight into Goldy's role and leave Daw primarily forward if it came to that. At the very least for this year Preuss has shown enough that we can handle Goldy more conservatively rather than running the poor bastard into the ground if he's carrying niggles.

I don't agree on that one, though I do want to see Brown completely kept out of the ruck this year.

I think Majak's best position is unequivocally the ruck. If Goldstein goes down I'd be more inclined to shift Daw to the ruck and go with the two and a half talls (Waite, Brown & Wood) set up.

Hell, throw Lachie up forward in the above scenario now that it looks like we've got Durdin and EVW to float across back there.

 

[TruRoos7]

Here we go again, not even into the season proper and based on the Hybrids one practice match (all be it doing quite well) people are advocating trading out Goldy for 2 first rounders ala last year.

 

[Black2Blue]

Here we go again, not even into the season proper and based on the Hybrids one practice match (all be it doing quite well) people are advocating trading out Goldy for 2 first rounders ala last year.

I wish this season would hurry up and pass so we can get down to the serious business of Trade Week......

 

[Kanga Glory]

next year waite should have retired, Goldy if back to the form we know from 2105 can play part ruck and part mobile big man .
North can have options next yeaf if preuss continues to improve.

smart people dont trade away top talent, With the new ruck rule Goldy will dominate this year

 

[RobZombie]

I don't agree on that one, though I do want to see Brown completely kept out of the ruck this year.

I think Majak's best position is unequivocally the ruck. If Goldstein goes down I'd be more inclined to shift Daw to the ruck and go with the two and a half talls (Waite, Brown & Wood) set up.

Hell, throw Lachie up forward in the above scenario now that it looks like we've got Durdin and EVW to float across back there.

Maj is a bit undersized to be a full time ruck. If he's going to succeed it has to be primarily as a forward mixed up with some time as a relief ruck/ruck-rover. He's got a real unique set of attributes that make him ideal as shock troops at some stoppages but that athleticism doesn't last all day when he has to be the #1 ruck (IMO). Last year he was clearly a better option than Preuss. This year I'd rather see us stick to the structure and use the opportunity to get some games into a real ruck than mix it up with a stop-gap combination.

AND if Preuss comes in for Goldy some weeks the mix of roles changes anyway. Preuss won't cover ground like Goldy can so he'll see either less %TOG or less territory covered, meaning more contests for the backup ruck(s). So win-win.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

One is our current ruckman, one is our future ruckman. This thread is about discussing that handover and when it will happen.

If you don't want to contribute to it, sod off.

Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.

I remember this guy by the name of Currie a few years back..... Played a pretty good NAB series.... Everyone got excited.... Was given a shot at the big time.... and turned out to be complete poo.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.

I remember this guy by the name of Currie a few years back..... Played a pretty good NAB series.... Everyone got excited.... Was given a shot at the big time.... and turned out to be complete poo.

In his defence he was mostly played at CHF in that run but you're right because the point is he was never close to shading Goldie.

 

[jclei]

Preuss has way more upside than Currie though. Taller and noticeably more agile. If he builds endurance he could be a real weapon for us in the future.

It wont be a huge issue this year but 2018 we could have a nice problem to have if Preuss starts pushing Goldy

 

[Black2Blue]

As we know Goldy is coming off an interrupted pre-season and knowing how he struggles with carrying injuries, I would expect Preuss to get a good few opportunities this year. And if he starts to challenge Goldy on merit then we will all be getting excited. But as it stands, we can feel happy that we have a young backup ruckman who is still developing his craft and his tank but has reached a level already where he can be relied on to hold the fort for an unfit Goldy.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Maj is a bit undersized to be a full time ruck. If he's going to succeed it has to be primarily as a forward mixed up with some time as a relief ruck/ruck-rover. He's got a real unique set of attributes that make him ideal as shock troops at some stoppages but that athleticism doesn't last all day when he has to be the #1 ruck (IMO). Last year he was clearly a better option than Preuss. This year I'd rather see us stick to the structure and use the opportunity to get some games into a real ruck than mix it up with a stop-gap combination.

AND if Preuss comes in for Goldy some weeks the mix of roles changes anyway. Preuss won't cover ground like Goldy can so he'll see either less %TOG or less territory covered, meaning more contests for the backup ruck(s). So win-win.

I don't agree on Maj (and that's ok).

When he's played ruck in the AFL team he's done very well. His follow up work at the stoppage is not really something that ends after a while.

I think he's a ruck/forward that's being fashioned into a forward/ruck because we want him in the team, not because it's his best position.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Preuss has way more upside than Currie though.

I noticed in the stats from the GC v Brisbane game that Currie registered -15 in the metres gained stat. That'd take some doing.