Society/Culture The housing crisis. How is it fixed?

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Canada cut migration and say housing affordability and rents improve.

The downside, universities lost an income stream.

 

[Scotland]

Independent MP Kate Chaney says we should increase skilled migration so we can build more houses. Yep, exactly what the nation needs - more people.

 

[RCAB]

Independent MP Kate Chaney says we should increase skilled migration so we can build more houses. Yep, exactly what the nation needs - more people.

Australia's 1901 Population: 3.8 million.

 

[peetoo]

Getting to a figure around 50 million will increase inequality in Australia but the country will be more self sufficient and robust to world shocks like Trump

 

[Scotland]

Australia does not need a population of 50m.

Australia absolutely does not need a population of 50m where 90% of them live in 5 cap cities.

 

[peetoo]

Australia does not need a population of 50m.

Australia absolutely does not need a population of 50m where 90% of them live in 5 cap cities.

I respect your opinion too

 

[Gethelred]

Getting to a figure around 50 million will increase inequality in Australia but the country will be more self sufficient and robust to world shocks like Trump

I don't know about self sufficient. There's more to self sufficiency than war; resource sustainability, for one.

Can the east coast provide enough water for almost double the current population?

 

[Gralin]

Getting to a figure around 50 million will increase inequality in Australia but the country will be more self sufficient and robust to world shocks like Trump

how?

 

[peetoo]

how?

More internal trade less reliance on external trade. Economics of numbers

 

[Scotland]

More internal trade less reliance on external trade. Economics of numbers

We're a primary producer and services economy. Unless we import 20m low skilled, low paid workers (which seems to be the trend anyway) and create a genuine third word level of wealth divide we're not changing the fundamentals of the economy.

Which of the 5 cap cities offers a better standard of living than it did 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago? The insistence on endless population growth makes this country worse year on year.

 

[Gralin]

More internal trade less reliance on external trade. Economics of numbers

but how?

to be self sufficient you need the resources onshore

food, water, energy

adding more people isn't going to improve any of those 3 things is it

 

[peetoo]

but how?

to be self sufficient you need the resources onshore

food, water, energy

adding more people isn't going to improve any of those 3 things is it

Don’t you think it’s easier to reestablish industry etc is there’s a bigger home market

Of course we need more intelligent leadership than we’ve had

 

[deck]

The downside, universities lost an income stream.

If they are only here to study shouldn't they recycle in and out.

 

[Scotland]

Don’t you think it’s easier to reestablish industry etc is there’s a bigger home market

Of course we need more intelligent leadership than we’ve had

What industries are going to re-establish because the population is bigger?

We used to make cars. Up until the early 2000s or so it was still viable. Just. Holden Commodore at its peak sold 94,000 units in a year and total domestic production was over 200,000. For a while it worked with Holden making V6 motors for use in other GM cars, but if you are making cars in the US what advantage do you have doing that?

Last year only three models of car sold over 50,000 units despite record population and record sales. The #4 selling model sold 26,000 units. Toyota at 240,000 was the only manufacturer to sell 100,000 units. The market is segmented into utes, SUVs, small cars, EVs, hybrids etc. It makes more sense for the 50,000 people who buy Ford Rangers to buy one of 300,000 already made elsewhere than it does to invest hundreds of millions to build another factory here that will struggle to compete on input costs. Car making worked in the 60s and 70s when we had component industries. Just assembling cars made out of components imported from SE Asia makes no sense. Our energy costs are high and our environmental requirements are stringent. We can't compete on input costs and we are a small consumer in a big market.

What Tesla are doing in the US is interesting. EVs are basically large batteries with wheels and they are trying to corner the market with battery mineral production into battery production into EV production as a single supply chain. Which is basically what happens in China where the state effectively owns everything.

 

[peetoo]

What industries are going to re-establish because the population is bigger?

We used to make cars. Up until the early 2000s or so it was still viable. Just. Holden Commodore at its peak sold 94,000 units in a year and total domestic production was over 200,000. For a while it worked with Holden making V6 motors for use in other GM cars, but if you are making cars in the US what advantage do you have doing that?

Last year only three models of car sold over 50,000 units despite record population and record sales. The #4 selling model sold 26,000 units. Toyota at 240,000 was the only manufacturer to sell 100,000 units. The market is segmented into utes, SUVs, small cars, EVs, hybrids etc. It makes more sense for the 50,000 people who buy Ford Rangers to buy one of 300,000 already made elsewhere than it does to invest hundreds of millions to build another factory here that will struggle to compete on input costs. Car making worked in the 60s and 70s when we had component industries. Just assembling cars made out of components imported from SE Asia makes no sense. Our energy costs are high and our environmental requirements are stringent. We can't compete on input costs and we are a small consumer in a big market.

What Tesla are doing in the US is interesting. EVs are basically large batteries with wheels and they are trying to corner the market with battery mineral production into battery production into EV production as a single supply chain. Which is basically what happens in China where the state effectively owns everything.

I didn’t have a car industry in mind. Anyway it’s pretty well established economics. I see you love the challenge of arguing against

 

[Scotland]

I didn’t have a car industry in mind. Anyway it’s pretty well established economics. I see you love the challenge of arguing against

What industries then? Cars are one example.

Oil refining? Steel making? Textiles? Consumer electronics?

 

[leon123]

What industries then? Cars are one example.

Oil refining? Steel making? Textiles? Consumer electronics?

advanced manufacturing, think renewable tech, fertiliser, medical/pharma, agricultural tech/value adding, robotics, aerospace, - think smart stuff and value adding of natural resources/or attributes we have competitive advantages with

 

[Scotland]

advanced manufacturing, think renewable tech, fertiliser, medical/pharma, agricultural tech/value adding, robotics, aerospace, - think smart stuff and value adding of natural resources/or attributes we have competitive advantages with

We could be doing any of those things now. I don't see how a bigger population really changes our global position.

We produce and import fertilisers because we have an agricultural sector that is a major export industry. It would be great if we could be more self sufficient in that regard and not reliant on Chinese phosphate production and inevitably Moroccan phosphate reserves but more mouths to feed locally doesn't change that landscape.

In terms of standard of living of citizens - which is really what housing affordability is - I've yet to see a convincing argument that endless population growth leads to positive outcomes. Australia is not the same land of opportunity it was in the 20th century.

 

[leon123]

We could be doing any of those things now. I don't see how a bigger population really changes our global position.

I dont like big populations, but it is a well accepted economic concept that the bigger the domestic population the higher the probability of an industry sector development. Its based around a big enough domestic market to support and grow an export market.

No use debating me, debate the many types of economists over many decades that have developed this theory. Of which, I agree with

 

[Scotland]

I dont like big populations, but it is a well accepted economic concept that the bigger the domestic population the higher the probability of an industry sector development. Its based around a big enough domestic market to support and grow an export market.

No use debating me, debate the many types of economists over many decades that have developed this theory. Of which, I agree with

Did you read the initial post I was responding to?

Getting to a figure around 50 million will increase inequality in Australia but the country will be more self sufficient and robust to
world shocks like Trump

Australia is 54th for population and 23rd for exports. We're usually top 10-15 in GDP and GDP per capita also. We're doing OK on the metrics economists look at. Half the reason we have endless population growth is so politicians can point at GDP growth.

Most of our export markets stem from economies of scale. It's a big island with lots of valuable rocks and some pockets of arable land on which we grow things. More people living here isn't going to make China buy more iron ore, excepting that we will just buy more of it back as steel products. Economists can theorise all they want but I am not seeing an obvious example of an industry that will take off because we have more people here then grow and support an export market, let alone how that will improve housing affordability.

 

[leon123]

Did you read the initial post I was responding to?



Australia is 54th for population and 23rd for exports. We're usually top 10-15 in GDP and GDP per capita also. We're doing OK on the metrics economists look at. Half the reason we have endless population growth is so politicians can point at GDP growth.

Most of our export markets stem from economies of scale. It's a big island with lots of valuable rocks and some pockets of arable land on which we grow things. More people living here isn't going to make China buy more iron ore, excepting that we will just buy more of it back as steel products. Economists can theorise all they want but I am not seeing an obvious example of an industry that will take off because we have more people here then grow and support an export market, let alone how that will improve housing affordability.

yes, and response was in that context. Pop by itself is no answer by no means. Higher educated and larger popis the context

 

[Kram]

Genius.

 

[Seeds]

More internal trade less reliance on external trade. Economics of numbers

Population growth doesnt change our comparitive advantages in production compared to other countries. The impact on trade shares would be minor. Plus trade is a good thing. A world with less trade is a world more prone to war. Not to mention lower living standards due to inefficiences in production.

 

[Mighty Eagles]

State governments need to release more land and improve their planning. This includes creating a satisfactory building environment where there are sufficient businesses and tradies, as well as materials, who can build the required new homes.

 

[peetoo]

State governments need to release more land and improve their planning. This includes creating a satisfactory building environment where there are sufficient businesses and tradies, as well as materials, who can build the required new homes.

Apparently there’s thousands of approved projects just being sat on