Opinion The Last Supper

[Two Planks]

I can see a couple not making it to seasons end. HMAC will pull the pin after his first injury and kelly will step away rather than play VFL.

 

[JUBJUB]

I can see a couple not making it to seasons end. HMAC will pull the pin after his first injury and kelly will step away rather than play VFL.

you could probably put Simpson in the same basket

 

[Seeds]

Simpson could be useful in the 2nds now that Banjanin has moved on.

Can I dislike a post

 

[Sttew]

How come no one else has voted?

I really didn't see that much in SJ this year *ducks for cover* - yes, Brownlow votes + all that - but what did he actually DO?

Built the aqueduct.

Like many of our veterans he started well and then succumbed to injuries

 

[BlitzenTrapper]

Lonergan and Enright will call it a day at the end of next year.
As someone previously mentioned, I think Bartel and Stevie will go on possibly one more after next year.

Good time to start grooming some KPD next season.

 

[ChookNorris]

Kelly: Positional change down back had alot to do with his new whipping boy status. If scott decideds to rotate him through the midfield a bit more id say it would improve his chances of getting a game. If they persist with him being essentially a permentant back I see pops becoming josh hunt 2.0, Bews will take his spot.

Lonergan: Still our best lockdown defender. Will more then likely continue to loose a bit of pace and he may get a few more kicked on him by blokes he generally has the wood over ie:buddy. Contracted till 2016 also...

Enright: Far as i see it the ball seems to be in his court here, if he can continue in his consistent consistent ways the club appears willing to keep him as long as he can. Ankle issues may get the better of him. Well and truly should be playing this year to his 300th, happy we wont have to see him get carried to it for ceremony.

McIntosh: The man known this time last year as 'The Abominable Snowman', having heard so much but never seen him. Could potentially be better for a second preseason, probobly shortend by more off season surgery. Still standing firm that the club wants to make Stanley a Ruckman, if they can get that to work, dont see hmac getting in.

Johnson: No worries at all, not sure on a the real seriousness of the foot complaint, so unless its far worse then imagined i think we will get to see another couple of years of jaw dropping brilliance followed by the most incredibly stupid decisions made on a football field. (blind u-turns into traffic my favourite)

Simpson: Until he blew out his knee in 2013, looked like the answer to our prayers, and the year of the Odd was a chance to keep rolling (07,09,11). Having watched him this year, not so sure. Dodgy back, cant mark, cant kick, cant run. May be suited to the fact we have 87 ruck options now so he can be managed.

Bartel: One of the most natural footballers I've seen. Wrist supposed to be an issue, but still taking marks like a CHF with 'em. Not a worry

Mackie: Not his best year, not sure why. Club would be expecting him to play for at least another two seasons. Mentally may not have the drive he used to. Maybe selwoods spray after the loosing SF will go some way to restoring that.

 

[Cattery]

Lonergan and Enright will call it a day at the end of next year.
As someone previously mentioned, I think Bartel and Stevie will go on possibly one more after next year.

Lonners will be thirty one at the end of 2015, hardly ancient, can see no reason why he couldn't go around again the following year, especially considering his form this year.

Enright almost certainly, and McIntosh the two most likely to call it a day IMO, with all of them though it of course depends on a number of factors, fitness, form, desire, but I wouldn't be rushing to pension any of them off just yet.

 

[Partridge]

Kelly is everyone's whipping boy at the moment. Was carrying an injury in the latter part of 2014 & finals, so output was way down I agree. I think he's still an important player overall for 2015. Not sure if he'll retire, as I see him possibly playing his last years at another club like Chappy. Depends how the body is holding up I suppose.

Was he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only 'injury' I can recall being talked about was what he had during the warm-up of the North final (and only after the game). I can't recall any discussion or report of any injury before then.

 

[vinum coupe]

Was he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only 'injury' I can recall being talked about was what he had during the warm-up of the North final (and only after the game). I can't recall any discussion or report of any injury before then.

Yeah there was an incident a week or two before.
Remember he went for a bit of a screamer, landed awkwardly and went off with an ankle issue.
Pretty sure he did come back on.

But I reckon that was the issue.

 

[vinum coupe]

Which only backs up what you said in willo's thread. They don't seem to learn when it comes to playing slightly injured players.

 

[cynical]

all of them

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I know one player who should definitely be doing this until he retires especially if he's considered becoming a coach, SJ.

NSFB

My opinion will not alter as you would like.


Not for 2015 and probably 2016 as well. In our top 3 midfielders and we just lost Bundy.

 

[chris9753]

Only 11 players left from the 2011 premiership team. It's amazing how quickly lists can change!

 

[Rainfall]

Only 11 players left from the 2011 premiership team. It's amazing how quickly lists can change!

That's alot...

 

[Pure_Ownage]

There was a rumour Geelong offered Lonners another year to stop him being poached.
Do we have any proof he signed an extension?

We don't, it was mooted in media articles we gave him 2016 to ward off the Dogs but there has been no confirmation by the club so I haven't put it in the contracts thread.

On the players:
McIntosh-he did play 18 games this year but he has missed 2 finals series and thats what he what he was bought for, and he's had more surgery this offseason. I am not sure I see his body holding up into 2016 and even if so the club would only retain him if we go close to another flag next year, otherwise they will go for younger options.

Simpson-sadly body is cooked I think, won't hold up medically.

Enright-is the oldest but is in the best form, shows no signs of decline. I expect 2015 to be his last year but he is playing well enough to get another year if he wants it.

Bartel-will go on into 2016 and will hit 300 games like Enright will this year.

Kelly-I expect it will be his last year but it depends on form. I think Bews and Thurlow will become regulars next year and it will probably be at Kelly's expense, if that happens I expect him to retire at year's end.

Johnson-depends entirely on the body. He is in absolute elite form, nearly won Brownlows the last 2 years and only missed them through injury and suspension. Our midfield is not deep and unlike Kelly he is still a first choice midfielder so he will go if his body is capable, but we know his ankle issues and he finished the year injured. 50/50

Rivers-in outstanding form but does have ongoing knee issues, depends on body. I think ideally the club would not want him and Enright to go in the same year though, they would like to stagger backline retirements.

Mackie-was super early in year but tailed off. Depends on form and also salary cap (i.e. whether the club wants to free up cap). Could go either way

Stokes-same as Mackie, although to be fair his drop off was injury related.

Menzel-I know it's the elephant in the room no one wants to discuss but another serious injury next year and it would be curtains.

Cowan-one year to become best 22 or he's done. Any more injuries and that's it.

Blease-is on a one year deal and you'd think it's make or break. Impress or get delisted.

It also depends who we bring in next year and existing contracts. For example we have Hawkins, Motlop, Duncan, Caddy and Guthrie all out of contract next year and those guys will all be getting pay rises on their last contracts, the first 3 in particular. And those are just the gun players before we look at more emerging players like Horlin Smith and Murdoch and Thurlow and so on. Retaining those guys will be a priority in terms of $ more than 1 year contracts for 30 + year olds. That's why I mentioned guys like Mackie may be offered another year, but only if it's on reduced money to what he has been on (although admittedly Christensen and Varcoe out frees up a lot of cap this is still an issue).

Secondly depends what free agents we bring in, if we hook a big free agent like a Dangerfield or Selwood and Steven the club is more likely to need to free cap space, which would mean one more veteran gets retired than otherwise would happen.

It's interesting to think that we turned over 8 players on the senior list this year and could conceivably turn over the same number next year.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Do you think he might lose a few pounds, catswhiskers, in order to not work his back so hard? I thought Tom Hawkins looked leaner when he returned this season- and I know they aren't the same back problems and you need a ruckman to be strong (and his weight is a part of his strength) but do you think Simpson would benefit from playing leaner?
The good thing is that 2015 will be his second year back from his knee op. The first year back after a fairly major op is always tough and, I think, that was a factor in him showing lesser skills than he displayed in 2013.

That's an interesting question, Teri. Remember when Tomahawk came back in 2013 + he was huge! I remember a Pies fan saying that he was massive + asked what he'd done over the summer. I think I joked about him increasing strength to sort out the three defenders he usually has hanging off him! Then, bang!!! His back troubles. As you said, he's leaner now + much more mobile.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

I can see a couple not making it to seasons end. HMAC will pull the pin after his first injury and kelly will step away rather than play VFL.

Seems such a shame for the vets to retire, rather than play VFL. Scott Selwood played in our VFL team didn't he? Captain of the VFL GF team? Then he coached them. Is there really that much of a stigma attached to playing VFL? It'd be incredible if someone like Kelly, or SJ played VFL instead of retiring altogether. I brought that up previously, but it was thought SJ's ego wouldn't allow it to happen. Then someone else (wish I could remember who) commented that so many of the vets go on to play for suburban clubs, it would be valuable for our VFL team + players, esp, if the vets played VFL.

 

[Daniel McL]

Seems such a shame for the vets to retire, rather than play VFL. Scott Selwood played in our VFL team didn't he? Captain of the VFL GF team? Then he coached them. Is there really that much of a stigma attached to playing VFL? It'd be incredible if someone like Kelly, or SJ played VFL instead of retiring altogether. I brought that up previously, but it was thought SJ's ego wouldn't allow it to happen. Then someone else (wish I could remember who) commented that so many of the vets go on to play for suburban clubs, it would be valuable for our VFL team + players, esp, if the vets played VFL.

Pretty impressive of him to have been playing for our VFL team while still contracted at West Coast and injured...

Think you mean Troy Selwood mate

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Pretty impressive of him to have been playing for our VFL team while still contracted at West Coast and injured...

Think you mean Troy Selwood mate

Bahahahaha!!! Yes!!! Of course I meant Troy! Doesn't S-c-o-t-t = Troy Selwood!

Funny thing is, I typed Troy first + changed it

 

[Cursed Cat]

It also depends who we bring in next year and existing contracts. For example we have Hawkins, Motlop, Duncan, Caddy and Guthrie all out of contract next year and those guys will all be getting pay rises on their last contracts, the first 3 in particular. And those are just the gun players before we look at more emerging players like Horlin Smith and Murdoch and Thurlow and so on. Retaining those guys will be a priority in terms of $ more than 1 year contracts for 30 + year olds. That's why I mentioned guys like Mackie may be offered another year, but only if it's on reduced money to what he has been on (although admittedly Christensen and Varcoe out frees up a lot of cap this is still an issue).

Secondly depends what free agents we bring in, if we hook a big free agent like a Dangerfield or Selwood and Steven the club is more likely to need to free cap space, which would mean one more veteran gets retired than otherwise would happen.

It's interesting to think that we turned over 8 players on the senior list this year and could conceivably turn over the same number next year.

Top post Pure_Ownage , agreed with nearly every word, and gave me a bit to think about too.
Your list of those who will be out of contract next year was a bit of an eye-opener; I knew Hawkins was ooc but it is absolutely imperative that we keep those other 3 guys also.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

We don't, it was mooted in media articles we gave him 2016 to ward off the Dogs but there has been no confirmation by the club so I haven't put it in the contracts thread.

On the players:
McIntosh-he did play 18 games this year but he has missed 2 finals series and thats what he what he was bought for, and he's had more surgery this offseason. I am not sure I see his body holding up into 2016 and even if so the club would only retain him if we go close to another flag next year, otherwise they will go for younger options.

Simpson-sadly body is cooked I think, won't hold up medically.

Enright-is the oldest but is in the best form, shows no signs of decline. I expect 2015 to be his last year but he is playing well enough to get another year if he wants it.

Bartel-will go on into 2016 and will hit 300 games like Enright will this year.

Kelly-I expect it will be his last year but it depends on form. I think Bews and Thurlow will become regulars next year and it will probably be at Kelly's expense, if that happens I expect him to retire at year's end.

Johnson-depends entirely on the body. He is in absolute elite form, nearly won Brownlows the last 2 years and only missed them through injury and suspension. Our midfield is not deep and unlike Kelly he is still a first choice midfielder so he will go if his body is capable, but we know his ankle issues and he finished the year injured. 50/50

Rivers-in outstanding form but does have ongoing knee issues, depends on body. I think ideally the club would not want him and Enright to go in the same year though, they would like to stagger backline retirements.

Mackie-was super early in year but tailed off. Depends on form and also salary cap (i.e. whether the club wants to free up cap). Could go either way

Stokes-same as Mackie, although to be fair his drop off was injury related.

Menzel-I know it's the elephant in the room no one wants to discuss but another serious injury next year and it would be curtains.

Cowan-one year to become best 22 or he's done. Any more injuries and that's it.

Blease-is on a one year deal and you'd think it's make or break. Impress or get delisted.

It also depends who we bring in next year and existing contracts. For example we have Hawkins, Motlop, Duncan, Caddy and Guthrie all out of contract next year and those guys will all be getting pay rises on their last contracts, the first 3 in particular. And those are just the gun players before we look at more emerging players like Horlin Smith and Murdoch and Thurlow and so on. Retaining those guys will be a priority in terms of $ more than 1 year contracts for 30 + year olds. That's why I mentioned guys like Mackie may be offered another year, but only if it's on reduced money to what he has been on (although admittedly Christensen and Varcoe out frees up a lot of cap this is still an issue).

Secondly depends what free agents we bring in, if we hook a big free agent like a Dangerfield or Selwood and Steven the club is more likely to need to free cap space, which would mean one more veteran gets retired than otherwise would happen.

It's interesting to think that we turned over 8 players on the senior list this year and could conceivably turn over the same number next year.

Terrific post PO, you've summarised the players + the Club situation brilliantly.

Bartel is on 272 games atm, so yes, we'd expect him to go on to hit 300. 2014 saw him kick a career high 27 goals, so could we see him play forward more? The defenders love having him popping up in the backline. I think IIRC, Enright said having Jimmy in the backline, meant the defenders had a reliable player, who always appeared exactly at the right time, in the right place for them to move the ball to, if they were under pressure.

SJ, has played as mid for a while now, which sees his goals per season declining - just 17 in 2014, his second career low, compared to a career high of 53 in 2010. With Bundy leaving, SJ is needed even more in the midfield. Although, I just have to say, I'd love to see him kicking more goals, but he deserves kudos for sacrificing his game for the team, + no doubt he enjoys the action of being a mid.

The players you mentioned, Hawkins, Motlop, Duncan, Caddy and Guthrie, coming out of contract will certainly expect more $$$ I think it was mentioned somewhere on BF that Hawkins is put out by the $$$ given to Clark. It's vital we secure those players, to secure our depth + experience in the team.

PO I would be really interested in your thoughts regarding any shuffling of player's positions, if you see any, with the addition of Clark + Stanley, loss of Varcoe + Bundy. I know the ruck is discussed, ad nauseum! Do you see players being moved around at all?

The VFL team has added some stars -
Ryan Williams - Port Adelaide Power utility - 26 y.o.;
Matthew Farrelly - fleet footed 21 year-old from Bendigo Gold;
Tom Ruggles - former Geelong Falcon, named on Half Back Flank in the 2014 GFL Team of the Year - 22 y.o.;
Wondering if the younger two might find their way to the Seniors?

 

[Heckler]

It's all about list management and transitioning the team to youth.
The pressure from our kittens is building like champagne ready to pop.
Great as the vets have been Chris Scott must bring on the youngsters.
It may not be age or injury that sees the greats retire.
Once they see they are no longer premiership contenders
I suspect the vets will bow out swiftly and gracefully.

I would rather to see our vets and kittens rotated and rested throughout 2015 - 16
This is both a smart and dignified way to signify change and they are valued as mentors
There is a certain pride and reward in passing on your skills
Rather than trying to hold on for the cash or trying to keep the youth out.
Much better than being overlooked and relegated by "youth policy".

Injury permitting StevieJ could be retired to the forward line in future. (2016)
He would still outsmart his opponents and be a goal kicker and mentor.
Likewise Jimmy would be valuable as a composed and steadying influence.
There is no better way to learn than playing alongside the greats.

 

[Lana]

he certainly hasn't played midfield much at all but I remember the game against Fremantle where we weren't getting anything from out of the middle, had no Stokes (suspended), Caddy (injured), Christensen (injured), Motlop's second game back and we moved Bartel in the center. He was convincingly destroyed by Barlow, Fyfe and Mundy, almost to the point it was sad to see such a champion get pushed aside so easily by those three giant midfielders. They made him look second rate and it happened on a couple other occasions this season so it was no coincidence.
I doubt we ever see Bartel play in the midfield again.

Not that I am advocating moving him in the middle full time, earlier in the year against North both kelly and Bartel played in the middle, I think we were missing Johnson from suspension, and they both carved North up. What I'd like to see is them get rotated in the middle about 20 minutes into the quarter and steady the ship. On limited data (The round 22 game against hawthorn), when Bartel went into the middle in the fourth quarter we stopped losing the clearances.

 

[Lana]

sorry but that's not correct. I am talking about Bartel playing as an inside midfielder next to Selwood. That has not happened very often at all recently and I can only remember him doing so on a couple of occasions this year where he was utterly embarrassed.
He's past it unfortunately. He's still a good outside midfielder where he can receive and dictate the play but as for being the extractor like a Selwood, not a chance.

I can't see him having the leg speed required to play as an outside mid, he wont be able to keep up with his opponent.

At least he is still winning clearances when he is put there. As a full time forward he still averaged almost two clearances a game which is a decent number for his position. Again I'm only advocating that he plays gets to moved in the middle for around 5 centre bounces per game with a similar number given to Kelly. For 80% of the game Kelly is a backman and Bartel is a forward. It allows us to rotate Selwood and Johnson a little more, too much has been asked of them. And that means we can avoid putting Stokes and Moltop in the centre square who are atrocious at that role.

To provide a little context,we average 13 goals and average conceding 12 goals and that there are four centre bounces at the start of each quarter. That's 29 centre bounces per game. With three players per centre bounce, that's 87 slots per game.

 

[Partridge]

I can't see him having the leg speed required to play as an outside mid, he wont be able to keep up with his opponent.

At least he is still winning clearances when he is put there. As a full time forward he still averaged almost two clearances a game which is a decent number for his position. Again I'm only advocating that he plays gets to moved in the middle for around 5 centre bounces per game with a similar number given to Kelly. For 80% of the game Kelly is a backman and Bartel is a forward. It allows us to rotate Selwood and Johnson a little more, too much has been asked of them. And that means we can avoid putting Stokes and Moltop in the centre square who are atrocious at that role.

To provide a little context,we average 13 goals and average conceding 12 goals and that there are four centre bounces at the start of each quarter. That's 29 centre bounces per game. With three players per centre bounce, that's 87 slots per game.

The problem with that though is, you're putting Kelly somewhere where he isn't necessarily the best option, and you're denying games to someone who needs them. Bartel did his job up forward this season, it's hard to dispute that. I find it a little harder to justify keeping Kelly in ahead of a specialist small defender, who will be a lot quicker and obviously younger.