Tertiary and Continuing The Law Thread

[ssfc0203]

Love a good shamelessly biased law text book.

The constitutional law book we had was so pro-State power it was almost comical.

I'm becoming a Marxist for the period of my exam because its the easiest way to get good marks. A good pro-socialist response is equivalent to a stellar response critiquing socialism. Really sad because the logic part of the course was absolutely awesome.

 

[jonoman89]

I don't agree. The entirety of the content should always be clear, anything else is unacceptable in my opinion.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I agree with your thoughts.

I'm just saying you should go to all lectures (or listen to them online) because the system is broken, and if you rely on reading guides you're bound to run into trouble.

The reading guides for each subject might be updated once every 5 years.

 

[cartel]

Anybody have any info on the RMIT JD?

Looking at RMIT, as opposed to Melbourne/Monash, as the course is alot more flexible, alot can be done online and I could potentially work close to fulltime while doing it.

 

[DTRAIN87]

Anybody have any info on the RMIT JD?

Looking at RMIT, as opposed to Melbourne/Monash, as the course is alot more flexible, alot can be done online and I could potentially work close to fulltime while doing it.

Depending on where you are working/what your load will be have a good think about doing it full time. At CDU there are a lot of people in your category who fall behind or don't do as well as they liked because they spend too much time doing both due to putting in for 4 units. The level of a law unit is 2 times commerce or science and should not be taken lightly, especially if the course is structured on the new school assessment way of testing you progressively and on everything and bypassing the easy 100% exam option.

 

[cartel]

Depending on where you are working/what your load will be have a good think about doing it full time. At CDU there are a lot of people in your category who fall behind or don't do as well as they liked because they spend too much time doing both due to putting in for 4 units. The level of a law unit is 2 times commerce or science and should not be taken lightly, especially if the course is structured on the new school assessment way of testing you progressively and on everything and bypassing the easy 100% exam option.

Cheers, thanks for the response. I have a fulltime job locked in for next year, but after that I can pick up part time work fairly easily. I still want to advance up the tree in my career, and would be mainly doing the degree to diversify my work in the future.

 

[Dani Pacheco]

Looking to do law at either UWA or Murdoch, unsure which uni I should enter into though.

Either straight into the degree at Murdoch or an undergrad and then the JD at UWA (provided I get the marks for it).

Any thoughts/advice/experiences would be much appreciated.

 

[Asian_Sensations]

Anyone got some tips for torts and contracts, any useful cases etc. ?
Trying to get a headstart since I did shit last semester/this year

 

[Affidavit]

http://www.australiancontractlaw.com/index.html

 

[DTRAIN87]

Anyone got some tips for torts and contracts, any useful cases etc. ?
Trying to get a headstart since I did shit last semester/this year

Best is to look at your cases for the course. We went through a negligence case called Aladdin's dance palace or something which was a main authority on Negligence in NSW and funnily enough the question on the MCG in our exam matched this scenario and facts. KISS.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Would anyone happen to have any course-notes/notes for Legal Method & Reasoning at Melb?

I'm not sure when they plan to make them available for students, but anticipate it being somewhere between orientation and the subject start itself.

 

[ssfc0203]

Best is to look at your cases for the course. We went through a negligence case called Aladdin's dance palace or something which was a main authority on Negligence in NSW and funnily enough the question on the MCG in our exam matched this scenario and facts. KISS.

Lol Adeels Palace? Interesting case.

Tips for Torts (haven't done Contracts yet) - summarise every case and also cases referred to in the key cases. Make overall summaries and then condense them down so that at the end of the semester you've got 90% of the information in your brain and the other 10% as a guide on 3-4 pieces of paper (with all your main notes to back you up) - ideally, a one page flow chart is perfect for one topic. Print out and highlight and connect all common law to the CLA (or whatever it is in your state) religiously. Pretty much basic advice.

 

[arkie]

I get my BA in journalism next year and I'm looking to continue to study.

I'm thinking either law and/or accounting. I've been told I should do another undergrad as going straight to postgrad to get my MBA would be pointless as I would hardly have any background knowledge and I don't think I could get my CPA or CA.

Anyway, I've heard it's really difficult to get a job in Law unless you ave an understanding in accountancy? Any truth to that? I've had many friends who studied law tell me that many of their friends ended up working as accountants instead of lawyers.

I was looking at Deakin, how hard is the DULSAT test that you need to sit? The sample questions seem really stupid! I think entry is based 60% on my GPA and 40% on the test.

Also, can someone explain what the JD actually is? Do people do that as postgrad as opposed to going to law school?

 

[DTRAIN87]

Lol Adeels Palace? Interesting case.

Tips for Torts (haven't done Contracts yet) - summarise every case and also cases referred to in the key cases. Make overall summaries and then condense them down so that at the end of the semester you've got 90% of the information in your brain and the other 10% as a guide on 3-4 pieces of paper (with all your main notes to back you up) - ideally, a one page flow chart is perfect for one topic. Print out and highlight and connect all common law to the CLA (or whatever it is in your state) religiously. Pretty much basic advice.

That's it. We laughed at it continuously and so did our lecturer/tutor. Yhe tutor said it was interesting and I see the logic behind the decision. H did end with the parting remark that this sort of thing could happen only in Sydney .

 

[checkraiseulite]

I get my BA in journalism next year and I'm looking to continue to study.

I'm thinking either law and/or accounting. I've been told I should do another undergrad as going straight to postgrad to get my MBA would be pointless as I would hardly have any background knowledge and I don't think I could get my CPA or CA.

Anyway, I've heard it's really difficult to get a job in Law unless you ave an understanding in accountancy? Any truth to that? I've had many friends who studied law tell me that many of their friends ended up working as accountants instead of lawyers.

I was looking at Deakin, how hard is the DULSAT test that you need to sit? The sample questions seem really stupid! I think entry is based 60% on my GPA and 40% on the test.

Also, can someone explain what the JD actually is? Do people do that as postgrad as opposed to going to law school?

• An MBA would be a gigantic waste of time (and money) at this stage. Also for CA/CPA you'd need to take some kind of bridging course (to learn some fundamentals) before attempting the course proper. I would not recommend doing this either.
• I wouldn't say that proficiency in accounting is a prerequisite to getting a job in law. Though a commerce degree is probably advantageous if you want to work in 'big law'.
• A lot of law school grads end up working in the tax practices of major accounting firms, many of whom do not even have accounting degrees.
• I haven't done the DULSTAT but from having done undergrad law at deakin I would hazard a guess that it's piss easy considering the average intelligence of 95% of mature age students doing the course.
• Yes, a JD is post-grad law degree, you don't need an LLB to do it.

 

[DTRAIN87]

MBA ios a big waste off a commerce degree. So many internationals do one and as my HR lecturer said they are for non business people or people without a business degree but with just say a science degree. Told this student he was better doing honours or researched based masters elsewhere as MBA = $$$ Dgree that only your employer should pay for.

 

[DTRAIN87]

As for the CPA you need an accounting major and the pre CPA units of business finance, Corporations Law, Taxation Law and must choose auditing as part of your sequence.

 

[checkraiseulite]

If it's anything like CA which I assume it is, bridging courses will be available so people without commerce degrees/accounting majors are able to complete the course.

Re: MBA's they definitely have their place. But not straight out of uni when you have no real world business experience and ostensibly no desire to start your own business.

 

[daniel_4tw]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly a clerkship is?

I family friend works close to a lawyer, and gave him my resume for a part time legal secretary job. He rang me and told me while he couldn't offer me employment, he could possibly offer me a clerkship. Now I see the big law firms offer clerkships, but never really heard much about them at uni.

I assume it is just work expierence right, where you shadow a lawyer and learn how the real stuff gets done. Is this right? Is there any practical problem solving work that will be used from my years at uni?

Also, when is the best time to do this. I am currently in my 5th and final year in a double degree at Adelaide Uni. Should I be doing a clerkship now or do I wait after my degree, or after my PLT? Also, how long do they generally go for and is it part-time or full-time (obviously unpaid).

Thanks for the help, I have found very little information on my university's website and google for that matter.

 

[Elixuh]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly a clerkship is?

I family friend works close to a lawyer, and gave him my resume for a part time legal secretary job. He rang me and told me while he couldn't offer me employment, he could possibly offer me a clerkship. Now I see the big law firms offer clerkships, but never really heard much about them at uni.

I assume it is just work expierence right, where you shadow a lawyer and learn how the real stuff gets done. Is this right? Is there any practical problem solving work that will be used from my years at uni?

Also, when is the best time to do this. I am currently in my 5th and final year in a double degree at Adelaide Uni. Should I be doing a clerkship now or do I wait after my degree, or after my PLT? Also, how long do they generally go for and is it part-time or full-time (obviously unpaid).

Thanks for the help, I have found very little information on my university's website and google for that matter.

I'm looking for similar work in Brisbane at the moment - whether it be part-time or work experience. I'm also doing a dual degree but am not as far into it as you.

I would suggested going for some type of employment in the law if that's what you see yourself doing after you graduate (I assume it is from your post).

From my limited knowledge clerkship's are usually offered by many firms seasonally (mainly over the summer holidays, but some are also conducted during winter) and you generally do not receive any sort of remuneration (experience counts I guess!).

Remember for a firm to take you on in any capacity it will be costing them money to train you etc.

But from my searches some firms seem to advertise positions titled 'law clerks' or 'paralegals' where remuneration is provided. Generally, they seem to want 2nd year students on-wards - so i'd possibly look into that as well if I were you.

I don't know anyone in the law and am struggling currently to find anything

A lot of people I know have been able to get jobs through family or friends extremely easily so it helps to know people but is by no means the be all and end all of finding employment or experience.

 

[jo172]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly a clerkship is?

In the context you're talking about a clerkship is generally paid employment a law student has at a firm whereby they undertake the more menial tasks of practising lawyers such as research and drafting. These are generally temporary positions offered over the summer or winter breaks although there are some people who work as permanent law clerks throughout their degree.

I family friend works close to a lawyer, and gave him my resume for a part time legal secretary job. He rang me and told me while he couldn't offer me employment, he could possibly offer me a clerkship. Now I see the big law firms offer clerkships, but never really heard much about them at uni.

If he used the word clerkship rather than work experience on the face of it I'd take it that he is offering you a short term opportunity to work in a more 'legal' type role than a secretary.

I assume it is just work expierence right, where you shadow a lawyer and learn how the real stuff gets done. Is this right? Is there any practical problem solving work that will be used from my years at uni?

There's a bit of that. You'll also generally get assigned some drafting and research work. Really depends on the attitude of the lawyer/firm.

Also, when is the best time to do this. I am currently in my 5th and final year in a double degree at Adelaide Uni. Should I be doing a clerkship now or do I wait after my degree, or after my PLT? Also, how long do they generally go for and is it part-time or full-time (obviously unpaid).

In South Australia clerkships are generally done over the summer/winter breaks by students at the end of 3rd/4th/5th years as a method of gaining paid work experience and networking. It's definitely a good thing to do during your degree as a litmus test of whether you want to practise and if so in what fields, with whom. The Summer/Winter clerkships are generally full time blocks during the holidays. The permanent ones are generally casually employed as they need to be fit in around Uni.

Thanks for the help, I have found very little information on my university's website and google for that matter.

The AULSS website is of some assistance.

Pretty sure Adelaide Law School is having their careers day relatively soon too. Definitely check that out.

 

[jo172]

I'm looking for similar work in Brisbane at the moment - whether it be part-time or work experience. I'm also doing a dual degree but am not as far into it as you.

I would suggested going for some type of employment in the law if that's what you see yourself doing after you graduate (I assume it is from your post).

From my limited knowledge clerkship's are usually offered by many firms seasonally (mainly over the summer holidays, but some are also conducted during winter) and you generally do not receive any sort of remuneration (experience counts I guess!).

Remember for a firm to take you on in any capacity it will be costing them money to train you etc.

But from my searches some firms seem to advertise positions titled 'law clerks' or 'paralegals' where remuneration is provided. Generally, they seem to want 2nd year students on-wards - so i'd possibly look into that as well if I were you.

I don't know anyone in the law and am struggling currently to find anything

A lot of people I know have been able to get jobs through family or friends extremely easily so it helps to know people but is by no means the be all and end all of finding employment or experience.

How far are you into your degree? If first, or even second year, just go with the flow and enjoy it. If something comes up by all means have a go, but don't stress too much.

Should nothing have come along in 3rd year look into applying to the uniform clerkship scheme (I assume Queensland has one). If not/should that fail I'd urge you to send emails/ring many practitioners/firms offering your services as work experience.

Particularly smaller/medium firms and the occasional barrister are often all to grateful to have a work experience student do a couple of weeks work and just from personal observations the smaller the practice the more commitment to the dignity/future of the profession rather than pure corporate bloodbaths.

The work experience might not lead to something right away, or you might prove yourself invaluable and they may decide to keep you on in a more formal position.

At the very least it's a good opportunity to network and pad out your resume. It gets a tad awkward if you're in your final year and the CV still features nothing but retail/bar work.

 

[daniel_4tw]

Cheers Jo, will definitely look more into it. I did work for a small law firm for 6 months while a friend was overseas, just doing dictaphone / running various legal errands. Found the experience good. Been looking for something similar for awhile now, but it is so competitive out there! Asking for work experience rather then paid employment might be a good option to network with the end in sight.

Cheers for all the advice.

 

[Elixuh]

How far are you into your degree?

The dual degree is 5.5yrs. I just started my fourth year. Next year I won't be doing any law as I will be doing honours in criminology. So including this year, I have 3.5 years left.

 

[jonoman89]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly a clerkship is?

I family friend works close to a lawyer, and gave him my resume for a part time legal secretary job. He rang me and told me while he couldn't offer me employment, he could possibly offer me a clerkship. Now I see the big law firms offer clerkships, but never really heard much about them at uni.

I assume it is just work expierence right, where you shadow a lawyer and learn how the real stuff gets done. Is this right? Is there any practical problem solving work that will be used from my years at uni?

Also, when is the best time to do this. I am currently in my 5th and final year in a double degree at Adelaide Uni. Should I be doing a clerkship now or do I wait after my degree, or after my PLT? Also, how long do they generally go for and is it part-time or full-time (obviously unpaid).

Thanks for the help, I have found very little information on my university's website and google for that matter.

Essentially you work as a junior lawyer (though not with very big tasks) for about 2 weeks. You're paid a pretty handsome sum and get a lot of practical experience. Yes, you do apply a lot of what you have learnt. It's not just work experience.

After you've finished they will assess you and determine whether or not to give you a graduate position (which usually means you have a job lined up straight after uni and they will pay for your PLT course).

You are meant to apply for them in your penultimate and final years.

They're very hard to get. Jump at the opportunity (provided a better offer doesn't come up).

It's also pretty concerning you're in your final year and don't know what a clerkship is. Do some research about when the next in take is in SA. It's pretty difficult to get a gig as a commercial lawyer these days without a clerkship.

 

[checkraiseulite]

It's also pretty concerning you're in your final year and don't know what a clerkship is.

+1. I think this reflects pretty badly on your institution, its law society and yourself personally.