Tertiary and Continuing The Law Thread

[checkraiseulite]

I had a friend that walked from a top-tier firm due to the clients she was working for. She doesn't regret it at all.

Interestingly, I reckon maybe 25% (probably less, tbh) of my law-degree mates from uni are still at big commercial firms, 3-5 years later. The one guy I thought was definitely in it for the long haul has just left. No doubt it can be good for your career, but, jeez, the work often sounded pretty shithouse.

what was it about the clients that made her walk?

yeah it happens all the time. the attrition rates are pretty tough in a whole range of fields. it seems quite easy to do 50% of the work for 75% of the money a few years out.

 

[J_Moore]

what was it about the clients that made her walk?

yeah it happens all the time. the attrition rates are pretty tough. it's quite easy to do 50% or the work for 75% of the money a few years out.

She was spending a fair bit of time at the NSW Dust Diseases Tribunal.

 

[Impunity!]

the rewards are there for people who are prepared to tough it out, it has to be said.

 

[checkraiseulite]

She was spending a fair bit of time at the NSW Dust Diseases Tribunal.

fair enough. i'm sure that would be pretty tough.

what's she doing now?

 

[J_Moore]

Legal aid

 

[bulldogrick]

There's news for you. The days of going to x are irrelevant. .

If you honestly believe this I'm afraid you have a lot to learn, and I say this as a fellow La Trobe graduate.

You only need to do a seasonal in a medium sized firm and you will see you will be in the extreme minority. Alternatively, go to a Leo Cussen open day and try and count how many Melb/Monash grads there are - they're dwarfed by the masses from VU et al.

It is not impossible to succeed from a non G8 university, but it is a significant disadvantage and by no means an "irrelevant" consideration.

 

[getthefooty]

Undoubtedly it is a factor, but I think a big reason why it is a factor is because the more intelligent and dedicated students pick a G8 uni to go to. If you have all the right attributes to be a lawyer, get good grades, interview well etc then you will be successful no matter where you went. It is all about mindset.

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

Undoubtedly it is a factor, but I think a big reason why it is a factor is because the more intelligent and dedicated students pick a G8 uni to go to. If you have all the right attributes to be a lawyer, get good grades, interview well etc then you will be successful no matter where you went. It is all about mindset.

This. The less confident you are in your ability to wow in interviews and be good at your job then the university you attended suddenly becomes more relevant. You rely on it more heavily.

 

[checkraiseulite]

skills/personality traits will develop across a 2,4,5 year degree wherever you do it to determine whether you'll have the skills to be a good practitioner (and it'd be silly to assume that in a g8 environment these skills wouldn't be nurtured better). but i still think the perception that g8 students are generally better than their ng8 counterparts by older g8alumni lawyers is the biggest factor accounting for g8 grads' dominance of the biglaw grad market.

at a ng8 you're giving g8 grads a pretty decent jump on you. that's a generally accepted fact.

 

[dymot]

If you honestly believe this I'm afraid you have a lot to learn, and I say this as a fellow La Trobe graduate.

You only need to do a seasonal in a medium sized firm and you will see you will be in the extreme minority. Alternatively, go to a Leo Cussen open day and try and count how many Melb/Monash grads there are - they're dwarfed by the masses from VU et al.

It is not impossible to succeed from a non G8 university, but it is a significant disadvantage and by no means an "irrelevant" consideration.

Nothing is an irrelevant consideration as for the days of not going to x being irrelevant this is true.

Wisely would not go to Leo if it meant travelling to Tennant Creek to go to an alternative. As for the G8 goings Melbourne Monash etc the thigns that the post below yours say are the reality and ring true. Many make choices to go to non g8 for whatever reason and others are or really should be in the g8 but aren't due to the wanky nature of the thing. Anyway with Leo Cussen last time that I checked you needed to now complete a practicing certificate to actually work in the profession do you not???

 

[dymot]

Undoubtedly it is a factor, but I think a big reason why it is a factor is because the more intelligent and dedicated students pick a G8 uni to go to. If you have all the right attributes to be a lawyer, get good grades, interview well etc then you will be successful no matter where you went. It is all about mindset.

Really some don't have a choice either.

 

[Impunity!]

Really some don't have a choice either.

THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE WORKED HARDER

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE WORKED HARDER

Awful comment from a 'moderator'. I was going through some very serious personal shit in my final year of studies and I was surprised at the grade I got because I was so distracted by the things going on with my life. There was no way I could have got the score I am capable of.

Such a comment reeks of ignorance and an inability to acknowledge different circumstances. Your comment applies to some people but not everyone. Now that I am studying Law and have overcome these issues I work hard and get good grades.

 

[Impunity!]

Awful comment from a 'moderator'. I was going through some very serious personal shit in my final year of studies and I was surprised at the grade I got because I was so distracted by the things going on with my life. There was no way I could have got the score I am capable of.

Such a comment reeks of ignorance and an inability to acknowledge different circumstances. Your comment applies to some people but not everyone. Now that I am studying Law and have overcome these issues I work hard and get good grades.

Oh come on. Lighten up. Students these days!

 

[dymot]

THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE WORKED HARDER

No they totally don't. Some have to go to the rural university near them because they have means precluding them attending their choice uni in a city. Secondly I was with a guy who was in the army and actually had to drop his/transfer his uWA place which was one of the best schools in the country last time I checked due to deploymentb in the east. He had no choice to do it on site as the hours he required to complete his force duties were during normal work hours. Dumb fallacy if you think it all comes to work levels.

 

[dymot]

Oh come on. Lighten up. Students these days!

Sorry reep should have not fallen fro the sooz pwn and took your comment seriously and literally .

 

[Impunity!]

UWA is a good school too. That's where I did my degree, YEARS ago.

 

[bulldogrick]

Nothing is an irrelevant consideration as for the days of not going to x being irrelevant this is true.

Wisely would not go to Leo if it meant travelling to Tennant Creek to go to an alternative. As for the G8 goings Melbourne Monash etc the thigns that the post below yours say are the reality and ring true. Many make choices to go to non g8 for whatever reason and others are or really should be in the g8 but aren't due to the wanky nature of the thing. Anyway with Leo Cussen last time that I checked you needed to now complete a practicing certificate to actually work in the profession do you not???

You apply for a practice certificate each year after you have been admitted.

I think you may mean 'Practical Legal Training'. Yes, this is a requirement if you intend to practice. However, if you land a position straight out of university the firm you are at will put you through it themselves. If you aren't so fortunate, you have to enrol in it yourself through an external provider such as Leo Cussen or College of Law. I'm not sure what you mean about travelling, a lot of people do Leo and College of Law online.

Of course work ethic and good grades are factors in obtaining a job. All I am saying is if you were to somehow obtain a list of the students selected for the graduate programs in the 10 largest firms, you would see that 90%+ are from Melb/Monash.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

For those in VIC...

I understand legal training is required in order to get your practicing certificate. How much does this cost at say Leo Cussen/etc?

And second of all, if you are employed at a CLC, will they pay for some/all of fees? Any centres in particular?

 

[SE_Blue]

Hey guys, transferred into a double degree this year Arts/Law. Looking to ultimately do legal work up north with Indigenous people. Will be aiming to do a bit of work with organisations like VALS while studying. What's the protocol for things like this? Do I just ring them up and explain what I'm doing and ask if I could do a bit of work experience with them or?

 

[checkraiseulite]

I doubt a clc will pay for plt.

 

[dymot]

I doubt a clc will pay for plt.

Some do because they get free places to the course or get given handouts and grants to do things like this.

 

[checkraiseulite]

dymot

you might find this article interesting.

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/news/we-don-t-care-about-your-pedigree

The head of Clifford Chance in Sydney has told Lawyers Weekly that the firm’s Australian offices are considering whether to adopt a ‘CV blind’ policy to graduate recruitment.
The UK arm of the Magic Circle firm has changed the way it interviews potential clerks to avoid favouritism towards Oxbridge university students. The Independent revealed that staff conducting final interviews are no longer told the name of the candidate’s university or whether they went to state or independent schools.
Clifford Chance’s Sydney managing partner, Mark Pistilli (pictured), said the local firm is currently reviewing its summer clerk recruitment process for July 2014 and will discuss adopting the ‘CV blind’ policy.

you wonder if a broad take-up of this policy might change the graduate pool in the Sydney/Melbourne big law markets.

 

[Impunity!]

staff conducting final interviews are no longer told the name of the candidate’s university or whether they went to state or independent schools.

staff conducting final interviews are no longer told

final interviews

Very cute by Clifford Chance.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Still:

Since introducing the new interview process, Clifford Chance has recruited 100 trainee solicitors from 41 education institutions, an increase of nearly 30 per cent on the number represented in the previous year under the old recruitment system.

so it must be having some effect on hiring.