The Law The Many Problems With Our Legal System

[Number37]

1, 2 or 10? You've got to be kidding yourself!

 

[Better Loosen Up]

View attachment 1887222

Sooo significantly high percentages then?

I wonder what the under 18 cohort would look like?

 

[Number37]

Sooo significantly high percentages then?

I wonder what the under 18 cohort would look like?

No, the percentages are very low.

Most of the u18 cohort that reoffend are indigenous.

Most of the reoffending in relation to violent crime, regardless of age, are violent criminals.
So an argument can be mounted that violent offenders need to be looked at more closely for parole.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

No, the percentages are very low.

Most of the u18 cohort that reoffend are indigenous.

Most of the reoffending in relation to violent crime, regardless of age, are violent criminals.
So an argument can be mounted that violent offenders need to be looked at more closely for parole.

When you're facing around 100 charges and are still able to be out on parole, you know the system is screwed!

 

[Number37]

When you're facing around 100 charges and are still able to be out on parole, you know the system is screwed!

Propensity reasoning is a no-no in the justice system, for obvious reasons.
So, no, the system isn't screwed.
What is screwed is that people think the justice system solves the crime problem. It doesn't. Never has. Never will.

Before you rabbit on again with some more nonsense...
Until about the late 90's it was possible for people to be thrown in jail for things like unpaid parking tickets.
Don't pay your fines, they issue an arrest warrant. You get arrested and they put you in jail.
Then some 18 year kid gets thrown in Long Bay for unpaid fines and gets beaten to a pulp in prison.
The community is outraged that the letter of the law was followed.
Why can't there be common sense, they cried.
Enter common sense.
Now people like you are screaming for the letter of the law to be brought back in.
It doesn't work.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Propensity reasoning is a no-no in the justice system, for obvious reasons.
So, no, the system isn't screwed.
What is screwed is that people think the justice system solves the crime problem. It doesn't. Never has. Never will.

Before you rabbit on again with some more nonsense...
Until about the late 90's it was possible for people to be thrown in jail for things like unpaid parking tickets.
Don't pay your fines, they issue an arrest warrant. You get arrested and they put you in jail.
Then some 18 year kid gets thrown in Long Bay for unpaid fines and gets beaten to a pulp in prison.
The community is outraged that the letter of the law was followed.
Why can't there be common sense, they cried.
Enter common sense.
Now people like you are screaming for the letter of the law to be brought back in.
It doesn't work.

But we're not talking about people with unpaid fines being out on parole here. Youth's carjacking, committing home invasions, assaulting etc whilst on parole for similar offenses is today's reality. The parole system is clearly not a deterrent for their behaviour.

 

[Number37]

But we're not talking about people with unpaid fines being out on parole here. Youth's carjacking, committing home invasions, assaulting etc whilst on parole for similar offenses is today's reality. The parole system is clearly not a deterrent for their behaviour.

You want to have special rules for special things..until special rules for special things blows up in your face.
That's the point.
It is not as simple as you try to make it out.
Look at the stats again.
The majority do not reoffend.
Those who are reimprisoned are reimprisoned because they fail a condition of their parole other than offending. eg drinking.
Again, the majority do not reoffend.
Make rules for the majority.
Not special rules that almost always end up blowing up in your face.


The parole system is not meant to be a deterrent.
The parole system is resource management.
There is not an endless amount of money to lock people up, let alone lock people up whilst they wait their turn in the justice system.

Their turn in the justice system most of the time takes years. Because there isn't enough resources/money.
All of those people who don't reoffend whilst on parole, get thrown in jail, what do you reckon their chances of turning into hardened crims are if they are forced into jail for an extended period of time....as opposed to be allowed on parole??????
Basic maths tells you that you could potentially turn more people into hardened crims just so that you can stop a smaller amount of hardened crims committing offences whilst on parole.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

You want to have special rules for special things..until special rules for special things blows up in your face.
That's the point.
It is not as simple as you try to make it out.
Look at the stats again.
The majority do not reoffend.
Those who are reimprisoned are reimprisoned because they fail a condition of their parole other than offending. eg drinking.
Again, the majority do not reoffend.
Make rules for the majority.
Not special rules that almost always end up blowing up in your face.


The parole system is not meant to be a deterrent.
The parole system is resource management.
There is not an endless amount of money to lock people up, let alone lock people up whilst they wait their turn in the justice system.

Their turn in the justice system most of the time takes years. Because there isn't enough resources/money.
All of those people who don't reoffend whilst on parole, get thrown in jail, what do you reckon their chances of turning into hardened crims are if they are forced into jail for an extended period of time....as opposed to be allowed on parole??????
Basic maths tells you that you could potentially turn more people into hardened crims just so that you can stop a smaller amount of hardened crims committing offences whilst on parole.

When you've got 30% up to the age of 45 reoffending, that's unacceptably high for me, majority or not. Sorry.

 

[Number37]

When you've got 30% up to the age of 45 reoffending, that's unacceptably high for me, majority or not. Sorry.

So what do you propose as a potential solution?

 

[mr bagcroft]

So what do you propose as a potential solution?

Murder - Rape...
Death penalty.
You die.
Simples.
Harden the * up and watch the cowards think twice.
There is no inbetween if you want action/reform.

 

[Gethelred]

Murder - Rape...
Death penalty.
You die.
Simples.
Harden the * up and watch the cowards think twice.
There is no inbetween if you want action/reform.

You'd see both murder and rape reported even less than they already are now.

 

[Number37]

Murder - Rape...
Death penalty.
You die.
Simples.
Harden the * up and watch the cowards think twice.
There is no inbetween if you want action/reform.

We already have punishment and that doesn't deter people.
What makes you think harder punishment will deter people?

 

[ElectricG]

We already have punishment and that doesn't deter people.
What makes you think harder punishment will deter people?

If someone is considering doing a serious crime and is weighing up the risks and benefits I would think death vs a light telling-off from the judge would seriously change the calculus.

 

[mr bagcroft]

We already have punishment and that doesn't deter people.
What makes you think harder punishment will deter people?

see above.

 

[Malifice]

They put speed camera where they think they will net the most $...

Another way of saying that is 'they put speed cameras in the place with the most people speeding'.

If you dont like speed cameras, then dont speed. It's a pretty obvious solution.

 

[Kram]

Yeah I haven't had a single speeding in nearly 25 years of driving because... strangely enough... I very rarely speed...

There would be some luck in that but I think if I ever did or do get caught I wouldn't complain to much, you almost always 100% know when you are doing it.

 

[Number37]

If someone is considering doing a serious crime and is weighing up the risks and benefits I would think death vs a light telling-off from the judge would seriously change the calculus.

What about if a crim thinks...I'm going to get hung for this, so I might as well make it worth my while.

If only crims did undertake such reflection prior to offending.
But they don't.

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah I haven't had a single speeding in nearly 25 years of driving because... strangely enough... I very rarely speed...

There would be some luck in that but I think if I ever did or do get caught I wouldn't complain to much, you almost always 100% know when you are doing it.

I got a speeding fine recently driving home from work. I had just left a freeway, and was driving through a school zone at - I thought - before 2:30 and thus outside of the 40km time limit (speed limit is 70 normally). I was caught speeding via a red light camera, which is within 100m of the exit; there are adjustable speed limits for this zone, and I genuinely do not think the adjusted speed was on the sign at the time; the school was a private one, and this was genuinely a few days before Christmas.

All this is to say, I do not think I knew I was speeding and I debated whether or not I should fight the fine; it could've/should've been school holidays, and I don't think the sign showing the adjusted down speed was on. But I can't argue any of that because I cannot prove any of it; I can't get concrete pictures of the school's open/closing hours, and I cannot confirm the adjusted speed was displayed.

This was my first fine since I was about 19, and in that time I've spent a phenomenal amount of time on the road via working a long way from home and being a truck driver for around 4 years.

Had I the money, absolutely I'd have contested the fine. I was doing 51 measured - well within the bounds of the 70km limit - and I'm still convinced the signs weren't on.

I read something a while back, which stated that the place you are most likely to lose your licence in the world is Victoria. This would genuinely be unsurprising.

 

[mr bagcroft]

I got a speeding fine recently driving home from work. I had just left a freeway, and was driving through a school zone at - I thought - before 2:30 and thus outside of the 40km time limit (speed limit is 70 normally). I was caught speeding via a red light camera, which is within 100m of the exit; there are adjustable speed limits for this zone, and I genuinely do not think the adjusted speed was on the sign at the time; the school was a private one, and this was genuinely a few days before Christmas.

All this is to say, I do not think I knew I was speeding and I debated whether or not I should fight the fine; it could've/should've been school holidays, and I don't think the sign showing the adjusted down speed was on. But I can't argue any of that because I cannot prove any of it; I can't get concrete pictures of the school's open/closing hours, and I cannot confirm the adjusted speed was displayed.

This was my first fine since I was about 19, and in that time I've spent a phenomenal amount of time on the road via working a long way from home and being a truck driver for around 4 years.

Had I the money, absolutely I'd have contested the fine. I was doing 51 measured - well within the bounds of the 70km limit - and I'm still convinced the signs weren't on.

I read something a while back, which stated that the place you are most likely to lose your licence in the world is Victoria. This would genuinely be unsurprising.

Pretty much the same thing happened to me.
"speeding" in a School 40Kmh zone, during covid, schools closed. I swear the flashing zone usually flashing was not on. I drive this route twice a day...
Main Rd, not a back street.
I lost my licence for three months for it and all up it cost me 5K for lawyers etc.
The entire thing is a rort for the most part.

 

[Malifice]

Pretty much the same thing happened to me.
"speeding" in a School 40Kmh zone, during covid, schools closed. I swear the flashing zone usually flashing was not on. I drive this route twice a day...
Main Rd, not a back street.
I lost my licence for three months for it and all up it cost me 5K for lawyers etc.
The entire thing is a rort for the most part.

Do what I do now, and drive like a Nana.

Remove the stress of worrying about that s**t all the time. You get there, when you get there.