I just made it fit that he was talking about our entire forward complement which includes Pav. Slight contextual issue but could be interpreted in terms of a total complement.
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Analysis The Matt Taberner effect
- Thread starter samFFC
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I just made it fit that he was talking about our entire forward complement which includes Pav. Slight contextual issue but could be interpreted in terms of a total complement.
Tabs may well have a higher ceiling.
But when Kepler played he made the earth move under my feet. I felt the sky come tumbling down.
I think Tabs works structurally well, but as with all young key forwards - consistency will be difficult to find.
For the time being, I see it as a luxury we can comfortably afford right now - him being picked each week that is. If we had the key forward depth of other teams ie. Norf - he'd probably be getting rotated with them on a trial basis to see who best complements the structure we're striving for.
For the time being, I see it as a luxury we can comfortably afford right now - him being picked each week that is. If we had the key forward depth of other teams ie. Norf - he'd probably be getting rotated with them on a trial basis to see who best complements the structure we're striving for.
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I don't really have high expectations for Taberner. He may only have one or two seasons after Pav retires before the club discovers that he isn't good enough to be the focal point and he stops getting played. But so what? That's a problem that will have to be figured out then. Dropping him now because he's not the solution for the future is dumb.
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I feel like I need to go to spec savers after reading some of this because I thought Tabs has been really solid this season. Trending up and I'm backing him to kick a bag before the bye.
My point is maybe Ross isn't overly enamoured with him. If you really rated him you'd just throw him a full game (considering Ross acknowledges his tank is his strength) and sub out an old bloke especially give we had Geelong & Essendon sewn up at 3/4 time.
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Tabs plays his role well. I like Freos current forward structure. Ballas and walters play as forward pockets. Mayne is on a half forward flank. Pav, Tabs and Clarke/Sandi fills 3 tall forward spots. Its works as it stretches the opposition backline. This time last year if tabs wasnt playing, freo would put a midfielder like a de boer or mzungu to kick 2-3 goals a game with mixed results.
That's been said since Free Agency came in.......
On the off chance we can get a Reiwoldt / Kennedy / Franklin / Tippett across, great. Until then, put the games into Tabs and Apeness and give them until 22-23 before throwing them out with the bath water.
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That may happen as time goes by. Certain some games you'll lose the sub to an injury, and in other cruisy wins you might see Sandi/Pav/etc subbed - remember we don't have that many "old blokes" anymore!
He's the second tall we need, he's playing his role and developing a long nicely. What more can we expect from a rookie KPF?
He'll never be a star, but I can definitely see him being a 30/40 goal a season forward in his prime, I'd be very happy with 20 goals this season.
He'll never be a star, but I can definitely see him being a 30/40 goal a season forward in his prime, I'd be very happy with 20 goals this season.
Tabs will never be a replacement for Pav, ...but that's got nothing to do with Tabs potential. Tabs and Pav are very different forwards, and very different players. It's an inherently unfair and pointless comparison from the get-go.
Trying to find any like-for-like replacement for Pav is futile - the man is a genuine once-in-a-generation freak. No-one in living memory has shown Pav's versatility and longevity. To the best of my knowledge Pav is the only man in the history of the game to be named AA as a defender, mid and forward... if I'm right, that makes him a once-in-a-century player... think about that for a while, when asking yourself who can replace him.
A fairer, better and more relevant question to ask is "Who will score the goals, and play the roles for us, that Pav currently provides?" And the answer is: "No one person on our list right now can do all that - so we have to spread the load".
Tabs will coves some of Pav's absence, as will Apeness, as will Clark, as will all of our forwards. There will also be other big-bodied mids on our list who will swing forward and play as a KPF as Pav does / did. Fyfe is already doing this, and he's just as tall and as strong as Pav is from all accounts, so Fyfe might also be a stay-at-home KPF in the twilight of his career. The back-line will be less of a problem for us, as we have promising KPBs in Pearce, Scos and Tanner - a few more KPBs wouldn't go astray, but our team defense spreads the load and takes the emphasis off the need for individual genius.
On the subject of spreading the load, I believe to some degree the days of having one truly dominating HF or FF (in the mold of Pav, Plugga or Carey) are fading fast. The game seems to be moving away from having one major scoring threat per team (WCE aside) as its far too easy for any strong defensive team to shut down that one man. Guys like Kennedy only kick a bag when their opponents let it happen.
Yes Buddy is a freak but he's a far more well-contained freak nowadays, and he hasn't looked even close to kicking seven or more goals in any of his recent games. I don't think Sydney will ever get the kind of scoring out of Buddy that Hawthorn did, because the game has changed to nullify their influence.
There will always be the occasional superstar freak like Pav or Buddy who regularly perform the impossible... but you can't manufacture that kind of player, nor can you focus on trying to draft them. Did anyone here on BF or at the Dockers really look at Pav back in 2000 and think "Yep - we've just drafted one of the greatest players the game will ever see." I certainly didn't think that - I saw he had talent and could be a very good pick-up, but that's all the insight you'll ever get when it comes to junior players - the rest is a crap-shoot. We got lucky with Pav, that's all.
For what it's worth, I think we should stop saying "Who will replace Pav" ... as NOBODY can replace him. Let's just be thankful we were spectacularly lucky enough to be able to watch him play for us his entire career. Tabs will make his own way, and be his own man - he'll do just fine given time. Let's not give Tabs some ridiculously large shoes to fill in the interim, that were made for someone else entirely and designed to suit a style of play that is increasingly irrelevant.
Trying to find any like-for-like replacement for Pav is futile - the man is a genuine once-in-a-generation freak. No-one in living memory has shown Pav's versatility and longevity. To the best of my knowledge Pav is the only man in the history of the game to be named AA as a defender, mid and forward... if I'm right, that makes him a once-in-a-century player... think about that for a while, when asking yourself who can replace him.
A fairer, better and more relevant question to ask is "Who will score the goals, and play the roles for us, that Pav currently provides?" And the answer is: "No one person on our list right now can do all that - so we have to spread the load".
Tabs will coves some of Pav's absence, as will Apeness, as will Clark, as will all of our forwards. There will also be other big-bodied mids on our list who will swing forward and play as a KPF as Pav does / did. Fyfe is already doing this, and he's just as tall and as strong as Pav is from all accounts, so Fyfe might also be a stay-at-home KPF in the twilight of his career. The back-line will be less of a problem for us, as we have promising KPBs in Pearce, Scos and Tanner - a few more KPBs wouldn't go astray, but our team defense spreads the load and takes the emphasis off the need for individual genius.
On the subject of spreading the load, I believe to some degree the days of having one truly dominating HF or FF (in the mold of Pav, Plugga or Carey) are fading fast. The game seems to be moving away from having one major scoring threat per team (WCE aside) as its far too easy for any strong defensive team to shut down that one man. Guys like Kennedy only kick a bag when their opponents let it happen.
Yes Buddy is a freak but he's a far more well-contained freak nowadays, and he hasn't looked even close to kicking seven or more goals in any of his recent games. I don't think Sydney will ever get the kind of scoring out of Buddy that Hawthorn did, because the game has changed to nullify their influence.
There will always be the occasional superstar freak like Pav or Buddy who regularly perform the impossible... but you can't manufacture that kind of player, nor can you focus on trying to draft them. Did anyone here on BF or at the Dockers really look at Pav back in 2000 and think "Yep - we've just drafted one of the greatest players the game will ever see." I certainly didn't think that - I saw he had talent and could be a very good pick-up, but that's all the insight you'll ever get when it comes to junior players - the rest is a crap-shoot. We got lucky with Pav, that's all.
For what it's worth, I think we should stop saying "Who will replace Pav" ... as NOBODY can replace him. Let's just be thankful we were spectacularly lucky enough to be able to watch him play for us his entire career. Tabs will make his own way, and be his own man - he'll do just fine given time. Let's not give Tabs some ridiculously large shoes to fill in the interim, that were made for someone else entirely and designed to suit a style of play that is increasingly irrelevant.
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Nothing
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Or structurally, as most teams do, we want to sub a tall for a small. Couple that with the desire to play Zac Clarke as ruck we need someone on field who can give him a chop out for the qtr. So we sub off Tabs, Sandi rests forward and Clarke gets to work on his around the ground rucking.
the question is why do we think just throwing games to him is making him better? Playing in the WAFL could be just as useful tbh.
Lets not sugar coat it - Tabs has played alot of games purely on the basis of his potential. Theres a reason he is getting subbed out.
The forward line is working better this year (or scoring bigger totals to put it another way) but in a different manner than the past few seasons under RTB when Walters and Ballas were contributing to the scoreboard much more.
My observations are - Pav is having a great season and is playing with a degree of desperation never seen from him before. Tabs is not spectacular but contributing week in and week out. For a player with 20 odd games under his belt he is one of the better tall forwards in that bracket in the AFL. Mayne is back to his best and his pressure and gaol scoring is a large part of our extra efficiency in attack in 2015. Clark has lifted his game quite a bit and his marking within the forward line is invaluable. He is a real danger when inside the forward 50 as his marking has improved a lot. He is also a penetrating kick.
The 4 bigger forwards mentioned above are getting the job done without much input from Walters and Balls. The fact the ball is going in quicker has helped them IMO as they are all mobile players rather than stand and mark type players and they are all working hard when the other team has the ball.
Ballas can still contribute with his desperation as per his chase and tackle last week against Essendon when he ran a player down on the half back line.
Walters is either out of form, injured or just being squeezed out of any meaningful role at the moment because the forward line is functioning very well without much input from him. Having said that he is a great small forward and should stay in the team. Walters is an average midfielder at best from what he has delivered so far and it's hard to understand how it can be of much benefit to the team to take a good forward and play him as an average midfielder.
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IMO, stage fright aside, if R7 2015 Tabs was playing in the 2013 GF, we have a flag. The ineffectiveness of Mayne and Clarke in that game to command respect from the Hawks defence (most specifically Lake) meant our fwd line was rooted - Pav or bust. Which meant Pav was up against 2 Hawks minimum.
Agree with many posters, Tabs potential is probably overrated by many. But importantly hes got to a level/reputation where the industry thinks hes 'alright', and worthy of someone getting a task on him. This is clearly benefitting the team at the moment, specifically Pav, Mayne and Zac. Ballas and Walters are adjusting to the slightly different dynamic IMO, but once that comes - WOW.
We still need to find a KF for the future. As mentioned by others, not a Pav replacement (dont exist), but a good KF
Agree with many posters, Tabs potential is probably overrated by many. But importantly hes got to a level/reputation where the industry thinks hes 'alright', and worthy of someone getting a task on him. This is clearly benefitting the team at the moment, specifically Pav, Mayne and Zac. Ballas and Walters are adjusting to the slightly different dynamic IMO, but once that comes - WOW.
We still need to find a KF for the future. As mentioned by others, not a Pav replacement (dont exist), but a good KF
- Apr 4, 2013
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The difference between WAFL and AFL is enormous. The question is: who do you drop for him?
If it's a small, then you're using the same structure that failed in 2013/2014. As darkshines alluded to, Lake won a Norm Smith on the basis he had no one to play on.
Maybe Taberner fails on GF day 2015 and we learn the experiment was always doomed. But I don't see Freo winning the premiership without a proper foil for Pav.
(Unless Ballantyne stops his massive yo-yo performances between Subiaco and away)
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I feel like he's improving slightly every game.
Leading hard, creating space, getting a goal or two.
He's doing his bit
Leading hard, creating space, getting a goal or two.
He's doing his bit
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Indeed. I mean he's no Jesse White (Tabs averages more goals this year) or a number 1 pick like Tom Boyd (Tabs also averages more goals) or named Jake (Tabs averages more than Carlisle), all of whom various people have suggested bringing to Freo over the last 12 months or so.
Are you saying you would rather have Taberner over Tom Boyd or Jake Carlisle?
- Apr 4, 2013
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You know, you're right. He probably won't be as good as Tom Boyd will end up being. So let's just go buy Tom Boyd at the Tom Boyd shop.
