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Mega Thread The Media Thread
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That C grade list is BS. Dude doesn't watch us play.
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Who is ignoring it?
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Going in to bat for Buckenara here: I think the point of the "developing" list is that we haven't seen enough exposed form of them to definitively say that they have A or B grade potential.
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You are
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He did include Meek in the list of C graders who hasn't even played a game. Also Cox and Logue who are certainly still developing.
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yep, Buckenara struggling to remain relevant.
Time to ‘cut losses’ with Jesse Hogan: Gary Buckenara analysis Fremantle Dockers’ full list after 2020 season
Gary BuckenaraThe West Australian
Thu, 8 October 2020 7:30AMComments
Securing Jesse Hogan from Melbourne was a major coup for Fremantle two years ago but the move hasn’t worked.
Gary Buckenara reveals why the Dockers should cut their losses and trade him. Full Fremantle list analysis.
The trade to secure Hogan was a coup but a combination of injuries, off-field problems and the emergence of Matt Taberner has seen the former Demon overlooked even when fit.
He’s on a big contract and when you have money tied up in a player who isn’t a lock in your best 22, it’s a major problem.
Especially when you’re in a position like Fremantle, which is gradually building towards finals with a young squad.
Justin Longmuir has made an immediate impact not only on the way the Dockers play but also their camaraderie. It appears this Fremantle team has bought into his game plan and culture.
Does Hogan buy into this? It’s a big question. Is he willing to get super fit over pre-season and commit to winning back his spot?
These are questions a player like Hogan, who was rated as one of the best underage key forwards we’ve seen, has never really had to ask himself.
I would sit down with him and have an honest conversation and ask these hard questions to gauge his commitment.
Fremantle is building a good young team with Taberner, Andrew Brayshaw, Adam Cerra and Luke Ryan all having the best seasons of their careers so far, while Rising Star winner Caleb Serong was a standout in his debut year.
Add them to Nat Fyfe, Michael Walters, Rory Lobb, Stephen Hill, Nathan Wilson, James Aish and veteran David Mundy and it’s a strong base. Blake Acres also looked good late in the season after returning from injury.
Key defenders Joel Hamling, Alex Pearce and Griffin Logue are also very good players who have been dogged by injuries so far but Ryan and relatively inexperienced defenders Brennan Cox, Taylin Duman and Ethan Hughes did a good job covering them.
The Dockers are on the right track but still lack top-end talent to be a genuine finals contender next year, with too many role players who probably won’t win them a premiership.
There are too many C-grade players – there are 19 – including Travis Colyer, Brandon Matera, Brett Bewley, Bailey Banfield and Sam Switkowski.
They’ve had opportunities but have never really become consistent players.
Some of the players I’ve rated as C-graders have had injury problems but if they get their bodies right, they have the talent to become B-graders, however, it’s a concern.
LIST NEEDS
The list is on the right track with seven young players with the talent to develop into A or B-graders, including Serong, Hayden Young and Liam Henry, but the challenge is to clean out some of the C-grade players and replace them with elite young talent.
Fremantle breaks down through the midfield and up forward so those are the areas to focus on.
With Hogan’s future uncertain, they need to look for a key position forward – a developing one if he stays, an experienced one if he’s traded.
There is also a need for younger midfield talent that make good decisions, are quick and who use the ball well.
TRADE TARGETS
It’s time for Fremantle to stop recruiting cast offs from rival clubs. Identify players who suit your needs, would be definite best 22 players and go after them.
Isaac Smith would be a smart option as an outside gut runner who makes good decisions and who can show the young players the hard work, commitment and team-first attitude it takes to be a successful team capable of challenging for a premiership.
Ben Brown would be a very good fit. He’s available and not only did he kick 60+ goals per season from 2017-19, he’s a great club man and would fit buy into what Longmuir is building.
I would pursue Brown and trade out Hogan because I believe Brown would buy into the team-first culture that Longmire demands, whereas I have doubts that Hogan does 100 per cent of the time.
Robbie Gray would be a long shot to leave Port Adelaide but why not ask the question.
He’s got so much class and can play midfield and forward and would add significant creativity and scoring power to a side that lacks both characteristics.
UNTOUCHABLES
Fyfe, Brayshaw, Cerra, Walters, Ryan, Lobb, Wilson, Mundy, Young, Serong, Hamling, Pearce, Logue, Taberner, Henry, Stephen Hill, Mitch Crowden, Sean Darcy and Minairo Frederick.
TRADE BAIT
If the Dockers can get a top-25 pick for Hogan, do the deal.
While they traded pick No.6 to Melbourne for him two years ago, a top-25 pick now, after more injuries, form issues and off-field problems, it’s the best they could hope for and would be reasonable compensation.
Cut your losses, move on and free up some salary cap space to chase a star.
Connor Blakely has fallen out of favour and would have some trade currency.
I would ask the question of the Kangaroos about Brown and offer up Blakely and a second-rounder or even a straight swap for Hogan.
RATING THE LIST
A-grade: Fyfe
B: Hamling, Lobb, Mundy, Pearce, Ryan, Taberner, Walters, Wilson, Tucker
C: Acres, Aish, Banfield, Bewley, Blakely, Colyer, Conca, Cox, Darcy, Duman, Hill, Hogan, Hughes, Logue, Meek, Schultz, Switkowski, Watson
Developing (with A or B-grade potential): Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden, Frederick, Henry, Serong, Young
Developing: Giro, Sturt, Thomas, Valente
What the ratings mean:
A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list
B: Top 10-18 player on most lists
C: An 18-30 player on a list
Developing: Aged 21 or under
CRYSTAL BALLFremantle is on the right track but are still a little way off challenging for finals. 2021 might be one year too soon, so I’d expect them to be in the mix in 2022. With wise recruiting list management and recruiting decisions between now and 2022, Fremantle can be a premiership contender in 2023-24.
Time to ‘cut losses’ with Jesse Hogan: Gary Buckenara analysis Fremantle Dockers’ full list after 2020 season
Gary BuckenaraThe West Australian
Thu, 8 October 2020 7:30AMComments
Securing Jesse Hogan from Melbourne was a major coup for Fremantle two years ago but the move hasn’t worked.
Gary Buckenara reveals why the Dockers should cut their losses and trade him. Full Fremantle list analysis.
The trade to secure Hogan was a coup but a combination of injuries, off-field problems and the emergence of Matt Taberner has seen the former Demon overlooked even when fit.
He’s on a big contract and when you have money tied up in a player who isn’t a lock in your best 22, it’s a major problem.
Especially when you’re in a position like Fremantle, which is gradually building towards finals with a young squad.
Justin Longmuir has made an immediate impact not only on the way the Dockers play but also their camaraderie. It appears this Fremantle team has bought into his game plan and culture.
Does Hogan buy into this? It’s a big question. Is he willing to get super fit over pre-season and commit to winning back his spot?
These are questions a player like Hogan, who was rated as one of the best underage key forwards we’ve seen, has never really had to ask himself.
I would sit down with him and have an honest conversation and ask these hard questions to gauge his commitment.
Fremantle is building a good young team with Taberner, Andrew Brayshaw, Adam Cerra and Luke Ryan all having the best seasons of their careers so far, while Rising Star winner Caleb Serong was a standout in his debut year.
Add them to Nat Fyfe, Michael Walters, Rory Lobb, Stephen Hill, Nathan Wilson, James Aish and veteran David Mundy and it’s a strong base. Blake Acres also looked good late in the season after returning from injury.
Key defenders Joel Hamling, Alex Pearce and Griffin Logue are also very good players who have been dogged by injuries so far but Ryan and relatively inexperienced defenders Brennan Cox, Taylin Duman and Ethan Hughes did a good job covering them.
The Dockers are on the right track but still lack top-end talent to be a genuine finals contender next year, with too many role players who probably won’t win them a premiership.
There are too many C-grade players – there are 19 – including Travis Colyer, Brandon Matera, Brett Bewley, Bailey Banfield and Sam Switkowski.
They’ve had opportunities but have never really become consistent players.
Some of the players I’ve rated as C-graders have had injury problems but if they get their bodies right, they have the talent to become B-graders, however, it’s a concern.
LIST NEEDS
The list is on the right track with seven young players with the talent to develop into A or B-graders, including Serong, Hayden Young and Liam Henry, but the challenge is to clean out some of the C-grade players and replace them with elite young talent.
Fremantle breaks down through the midfield and up forward so those are the areas to focus on.
With Hogan’s future uncertain, they need to look for a key position forward – a developing one if he stays, an experienced one if he’s traded.
There is also a need for younger midfield talent that make good decisions, are quick and who use the ball well.
TRADE TARGETS
It’s time for Fremantle to stop recruiting cast offs from rival clubs. Identify players who suit your needs, would be definite best 22 players and go after them.
Isaac Smith would be a smart option as an outside gut runner who makes good decisions and who can show the young players the hard work, commitment and team-first attitude it takes to be a successful team capable of challenging for a premiership.
Ben Brown would be a very good fit. He’s available and not only did he kick 60+ goals per season from 2017-19, he’s a great club man and would fit buy into what Longmuir is building.
I would pursue Brown and trade out Hogan because I believe Brown would buy into the team-first culture that Longmire demands, whereas I have doubts that Hogan does 100 per cent of the time.
Robbie Gray would be a long shot to leave Port Adelaide but why not ask the question.
He’s got so much class and can play midfield and forward and would add significant creativity and scoring power to a side that lacks both characteristics.
UNTOUCHABLES
Fyfe, Brayshaw, Cerra, Walters, Ryan, Lobb, Wilson, Mundy, Young, Serong, Hamling, Pearce, Logue, Taberner, Henry, Stephen Hill, Mitch Crowden, Sean Darcy and Minairo Frederick.
TRADE BAIT
If the Dockers can get a top-25 pick for Hogan, do the deal.
While they traded pick No.6 to Melbourne for him two years ago, a top-25 pick now, after more injuries, form issues and off-field problems, it’s the best they could hope for and would be reasonable compensation.
Cut your losses, move on and free up some salary cap space to chase a star.
Connor Blakely has fallen out of favour and would have some trade currency.
I would ask the question of the Kangaroos about Brown and offer up Blakely and a second-rounder or even a straight swap for Hogan.
RATING THE LIST
A-grade: Fyfe
B: Hamling, Lobb, Mundy, Pearce, Ryan, Taberner, Walters, Wilson, Tucker
C: Acres, Aish, Banfield, Bewley, Blakely, Colyer, Conca, Cox, Darcy, Duman, Hill, Hogan, Hughes, Logue, Meek, Schultz, Switkowski, Watson
Developing (with A or B-grade potential): Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden, Frederick, Henry, Serong, Young
Developing: Giro, Sturt, Thomas, Valente
What the ratings mean:
A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list
B: Top 10-18 player on most lists
C: An 18-30 player on a list
Developing: Aged 21 or under
CRYSTAL BALLFremantle is on the right track but are still a little way off challenging for finals. 2021 might be one year too soon, so I’d expect them to be in the mix in 2022. With wise recruiting list management and recruiting decisions between now and 2022, Fremantle can be a premiership contender in 2023-24.
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Oh God, I didnt realise he also gave what the ratings mean. So he thinks that Walters and Ryan are not elite players on any list...
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Yeah the C list seems a bit harsh. Watson, Darcy, Logue and Cox I'd have as developing A and B graders with Aish as a B grader, and Meek should definitely be in the "developing". I still agree with his Sturt classification though.
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Just wait for a few days... "Walters and Ryan have been linked to Carlton, Valued as 3rd rounders by Buckenara"
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I don't know how anyone on the All-Aus team could be considered a b-grader.
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Some of the assessments weren't that far wrong in general though. It's easy to pick apart the A,B,C ratings for individual players and disagree with his ratings for them, but the overall situation Buckenara has outlined in his intro paragraphs isn't that far from the mark imo.
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Like our last few seasons under Lyon, started with great promise before ending up as a train wreck
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Darcy is a B surely? How many clubs is he not the leading ruckman at?
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His solution was to swap C-grade players for elite young talent, genius!
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I reckon he still misses a bit too much with injury and has a few average games to be considered firmly B. But he's still developing and absolutely has A grade potential.Darcy is a B surely? How many clubs is he not the leading ruckman at?
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Ben The Donkey
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I didn't say I agreed with his solutions, hinted at the opposite actually.
A graph lifted from the ABC website - article here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...nce-how-valuable-is-it/12738558?section=sport
What does this tell you?
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Tells me JLo got the defensive side of things sorted with the players and now onto the offensive side in 2021.
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Interesting graph
It suggests to me Richmond will win the flag (I already suspected that), that St Kilda and the Bulldogs were pretenders as finalists and we are a lot closer to being very good than a lot of people think.
Also tells me we should never have lost to ****ing Essendon
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Yep, in the first quarter against Essendon, we obviously chucked the sads. Won't be a problem next season.
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Grundy, Gawn, Lycett, Nat, obrien, Goldstein, English, and probably a few more not sure he is a top 10 ruck.Darcy is a B surely? How many clubs is he not the leading ruckman at?
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