Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[Val Keating]

I've seen photos of torture victims from South America and central America. I saw them 30 years ago and they are still in my head today. Wish i'd never seen them.

It’s horrific. Someone sent me a video of that thing the cartel’s do with car tires. So awful.

 

[ferball]

It’s horrific. Someone sent me a video of that thing the cartel’s do with car tires. So awful.

Its just ****ed. Makes me wonder about humans...

 

[Val Keating]

Its just f’ed. Makes me wonder about humans...

Desensitised from childhood

 

[Eggs11]

Its just f’ed. Makes me wonder about humans...

Unfortunately our ambition exceeds our wisdom. Agent Smith was correct: "Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet."

We will kill this planet and everything on it.

But otherwise we're grouse.

 

[Del191229]

I know some senators wanted to, it was a big deal at the time.

They didn't though.

But blonde white people count for more.

 

[Sopwiths North]

The link in this post is to Ukraine's official website, which is good. There is no doubt that the history leading up to this is complex and incredibly nuanced. But the point is, Ukraine wants its own freedom. It's a sovereign country. It has the right to choose its own path, and not continually be relegated as a pawn who often never even gets invited to the table when others are in talks over its future.

I've mentioned "unity consciousness" in this thread a couple times now. Unity consciousness means acting together for the benefit of all, but with each individual involved being equal. There is no top down power structure involved, there is no subordination, there is no division, there is no picking sides. And I agree, it may sound like a far-fetched dream, to live in a world like this. Maybe it is. I don't know because I can't see the future. But what I do know is that Ukraine is defending its sovereignty right now, and its right to be treated as an equal. And that's what seems to repeatedly get lost in the geopolitics and the angry divisive rhetoric that's overflowing everywhere.

So yes, I do stand with Ukraine. And I stand with Syria. And with Afghanistan, and Yemen, and every single country and people in this world that right now is under oppression or terror or torture or slaughter. And yes, there's a lot of them. And yes, people of all colours. Not to mention half the world's population still suffers oppression simply because of gender. You can maybe see now why I feel unity consciousness is so important. I hope we can achieve it. A place where everyone has the freedom of equality. Maybe we can't achieve it in perfect form. But I know we can do better than where we are right now. And the near miss shelling of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe should be a reminder of why we have to try.

For now though, the Ukrainian people absolutely do deserve the spotlight that's being put on their fight. Because it is that fight for freedom and equality that's the true reason for what's happening right now, no matter how hard the forces in control around it want us to keep thinking it's just all about them. It's been long overdue for those powers to check their egos at the door and just listen to what Ukraine has been asking for all along. It wants sovereignty over its own future. And it deserves that.

 

[Tectonic]

They didn't though.

But blonde white people count for more.

Was it not happening at the same time or near the same time as the impeachment anyway?
Which I am sure was less about helping Ukraine and more about making trump look bad.

 

[Tectonic]

On the Cusp of an Economic Singularity

“One mustn't look at the abyss, because there is at the bottom an inexpressible charm which attracts us.” – Gustave Flaubert

doomberg.substack.com

 

[Sopwiths North]

I'm not sure about "soon", but I like his sentiment about Poland.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Shia have been getting blown up in their places of worship, their streets, even going for ice cream for decades ... by the groups the West is often allied with.

But poor brown Muslims don't count as much as nice white blonde Ukrainians, so frankly, unless you're a nerd for this sh*t like me, you probably don't know or care.

Dozens of worshippers killed in Pakistan suicide bomb attack

At least 56 people killed in attack on Shia Muslim mosque in Peshawar during Friday prayers

www.theguardian.com

Death toll now at 63 and expected to climb. Another 200 injured.

Has Australia changed its stance on Pakistani refugees? 15 years ago we used to knock back Afghans on flimsy evidence that we believed they were actually from Pakistan.

 

[Val Keating]

Nice troll.

 

[B4Bear]

Letter from Kyiv: Putin’s War on Ukraine is 'Pozor Rossii' - Breaking Defense

Writing from Kyiv, Breaking Defense's Ukraine correspondent grapples with the strategic implications and lessons learned a week after Russia's invasion.

breakingdefense.com

 

[ferball]

On the Cusp of an Economic Singularity

“One mustn't look at the abyss, because there is at the bottom an inexpressible charm which attracts us.” – Gustave Flaubert

doomberg.substack.com

That's a great article but did you read the first comment? Horrific.

 

[Tectonic]

That's a great article but did you read the first comment? Horrific.

I tend not to venture below the line on WordPress type sites.. with good reason it seems

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

The link in this post is to Ukraine's official website, which is good. There is no doubt that the history leading up to this is complex and incredibly nuanced. But the point is, Ukraine wants its own freedom. It's a sovereign country. It has the right to choose its own path, and not continually be relegated as a pawn who often never even gets invited to the table when others are in talks over its future.

I've mentioned "unity consciousness" in this thread a couple times now. Unity consciousness means acting together for the benefit of all, but with each individual involved being equal. There is no top down power structure involved, there is no subordination, there is no division, there is no picking sides. And I agree, it may sound like a far-fetched dream, to live in a world like this. Maybe it is. I don't know because I can't see the future. But what I do know is that Ukraine is defending its sovereignty right now, and its right to be treated as an equal. And that's what seems to repeatedly get lost in the geopolitics and the angry divisive rhetoric that's overflowing everywhere.

So yes, I do stand with Ukraine. And I stand with Syria. And with Afghanistan, and Yemen, and every single country and people in this world that right now is under oppression or terror or torture or slaughter. And yes, there's a lot of them. And yes, people of all colours. Not to mention half the world's population still suffers oppression simply because of gender. You can maybe see now why I feel unity consciousness is so important. I hope we can achieve it. A place where everyone has the freedom of equality. Maybe we can't achieve it in perfect form. But I know we can do better than where we are right now. And the near miss shelling of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe should be a reminder of why we have to try.

For now though, the Ukrainian people absolutely do deserve the spotlight that's being put on their fight. Because it is that fight for freedom and equality that's the true reason for what's happening right now, no matter how hard the forces in control around it want us to keep thinking it's just all about them. It's been long overdue for those powers to check their egos at the door and just listen to what Ukraine has been asking for all along. It wants sovereignty over its own future. And it deserves that.

I find some of this hard to reconcile with its apparent inherent contradictions.

Surely in unity consciousness, sunlight should apply equally across the globe. The idea of a spotlight suggests one area is being highlighted and the subject of singular focus, which seems anathema to the idea of unity.

If part of unity consciousness is not picking sides, how is that we have picked the Ukrainian side? It seems that then we do not consider the Russian POV at all. And not Putin, the individual, but Russia the entity and its people. Do we consider the Russian populace in general? Western governments have gone down a path of economic sanctions that I imagine will be felt disproportionately by the middle and lower classes. Payments continue to go directly to government for energy needs of other nations. Is this fair, especially given we don't really know how much support there is for the invasion among the Russian people? What is more there have been comments in this thread and more generally that we should punish the Russian people to somehow force regime change. This appears unlikely to even be possible and misdirecting the pain on no real feasible basis.

On the other hand, because we have chosen the Ukrainian side, have we become blind to problems with Ukrainian policy. Is it appropriate to ban men aged 18-60 from leaving the country? In Australia we have consistently reject conscription, albeit for overseas conflicts. Others will no doubt disagree, but personally I am not comfortable with forcing people to fight and give up their lives to defend their country. Surely there will be enough people to do it willingly, without forcefully separating fathers from their children to die in a war that the nation will most likely lose? Equally, are we okay with the treatment of Asian and African students trying to flee the country?

True unity consciousness will be difficult to achieve but it is certainly a worthy goal. The hard work though has to be done outside the time of conflict. Improving economic conditions of people all over the world is part of it - if we start to see the global south as middle class and comfortable we may feel more invested in their conflicts (and those conflicts will likely reduce). There has to be a recognition that the wealth of the global north has a huge element of several hundred years exploitation of the global south, and reparations should be paid. But I am pessimistic about that - the fear of recognising this has been one of the barriers to action on climate change.

Concepts of democracy are even more fraught. To what extent should global institutions impose or encourage democratic systems on individual states? We can probably agree that universal suffrage and free and fair elections are non-negotiable where a purported democracy exists. But there are indigenous thinkers in Australia and globally who ask us to question the automatic assumption that Westphalian democracy is the best model for every state in the world.

I think this last point is important. We need to be willing to question our very basic assumptions about the world and the extent to which they are "natural" or the best models for organising society.

 

[Val Keating]

I find some of this hard to reconcile with its apparent inherent contradictions.

Surely in unity consciousness, sunlight should apply equally across the globe. The idea of a spotlight suggests one area is being highlighted and the subject of singular focus, which seems anathema to the idea of unity.

If part of unity consciousness is not picking sides, how is that we have picked the Ukrainian side? It seems that then we do not consider the Russian POV at all. And not Putin, the individual, but Russia the entity and its people. Do we consider the Russian populace in general? Western governments have gone down a path of economic sanctions that I imagine will be felt disproportionately by the middle and lower classes. Payments continue to go directly to government for energy needs of other nations. Is this fair, especially given we don't really know how much support there is for the invasion among the Russian people? What is more there have been comments in this thread and more generally that we should punish the Russian people to somehow force regime change. This appears unlikely to even be possible and misdirecting the pain on no real feasible basis.

On the other hand, because we have chosen the Ukrainian side, have we become blind to problems with Ukrainian policy. Is it appropriate to ban men aged 18-60 from leaving the country? In Australia we have consistently reject conscription, albeit for overseas conflicts. Others will no doubt disagree, but personally I am not comfortable with forcing people to fight and give up their lives to defend their country. Surely there will be enough people to do it willingly, without forcefully separating fathers from their children to die in a war that the nation will most likely lose? Equally, are we okay with the treatment of Asian and African students trying to flee the country?

True unity consciousness will be difficult to achieve but it is certainly a worthy goal. The hard work though has to be done outside the time of conflict. Improving economic conditions of people all over the world is part of it - if we start to see the global south as middle class and comfortable we may feel more invested in their conflicts (and those conflicts will likely reduce). There has to be a recognition that the wealth of the global north has a huge element of several hundred years exploitation of the global south, and reparations should be paid. But I am pessimistic about that - the fear of recognising this has been one of the barriers to action on climate change.

Concepts of democracy are even more fraught. To what extent should global institutions impose or encourage democratic systems on individual states? We can probably agree that universal suffrage and free and fair elections are non-negotiable where a purported democracy exists. But there are indigenous thinkers in Australia and globally who ask us to question the automatic assumption that Westphalian democracy is the best model for every state in the world.

I think this last point is important. We need to be willing to question our very basic assumptions about the world and the extent to which they are "natural" or the best models for organising society.

Going by the anti war protests in Russia I think we can get an idea of how a lot of people feel about the invasion.



Then there’s the fact that there’s people in Russia that only have access to the Russian mainstream media who don’t think that Russia would hurt civilians.

Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me'

These Ukrainians say their Russian relatives only trust the narratives they see on TV at home.

www.bbc.com

Personally, the reason I have chosen the Ukrainian side is because they have done nothing except exist as a free state and because of that they are being invaded by Russia. Russia is killing civilians. Russia broke a cease fire to allow civilians to leave and fired on them instead. Russia is targeting journalists.

 

[ferball]

Is it really a bad thing that hit squads are targeting Sky News tho?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Personally, the reason I have chosen the Ukrainian side is because they have done nothing except exist as a free state and because of that they are being invaded by Russia. Russia is killing civilians. Russia broke a cease fire to allow civilians to leave and fired on them instead. Russia is targeting journalists.

Sure, but you are not advocating an approach that specifically favours not taking sides.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Going by the anti war protests in Russia I think we can get an idea of how a lot of people feel about the invasion.



Then there’s the fact that there’s people in Russia that only have access to the Russian mainstream media who don’t think that Russia would hurt civilians.

Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me'

These Ukrainians say their Russian relatives only trust the narratives they see on TV at home.

www.bbc.com

That suggests we don't know the feeling of the Russian populace, except we know that they are divided (not unexpectedly). It does at least suggest that there is a sizeable group that are opposed to the invasion. Those people will feel the brunt of both Western sanctions and government crackdowns on protest.

 

[Val Keating]

That suggests we don't know the feeling of the Russian populace, except we know that they are divided (not unexpectedly). It does at least suggest that there is a sizeable group that are opposed to the invasion. Those people will feel the brunt of both Western sanctions and government crackdowns on protest.

Yes they’re very brave. To me it looks like the plan is to put pressure on the Russian people to in turn put pressure on Putin. It’s almost like a war of attrition.

The Ukrainian president looks like he’s taking a leaf out of Churchills plan during WW2 and try and bring US (in this case nato) into the war.

As much as I feel for Ukraine I don’t want that because it would almost certainly mean nuclear war.

 

[Sopwiths North]

I find some of this hard to reconcile with its apparent inherent contradictions.

Surely in unity consciousness, sunlight should apply equally across the globe. The idea of a spotlight suggests one area is being highlighted and the subject of singular focus, which seems anathema to the idea of unity.

If part of unity consciousness is not picking sides, how is that we have picked the Ukrainian side? It seems that then we do not consider the Russian POV at all. And not Putin, the individual, but Russia the entity and its people. Do we consider the Russian populace in general? Western governments have gone down a path of economic sanctions that I imagine will be felt disproportionately by the middle and lower classes. Payments continue to go directly to government for energy needs of other nations. Is this fair, especially given we don't really know how much support there is for the invasion among the Russian people? What is more there have been comments in this thread and more generally that we should punish the Russian people to somehow force regime change. This appears unlikely to even be possible and misdirecting the pain on no real feasible basis.

On the other hand, because we have chosen the Ukrainian side, have we become blind to problems with Ukrainian policy. Is it appropriate to ban men aged 18-60 from leaving the country? In Australia we have consistently reject conscription, albeit for overseas conflicts. Others will no doubt disagree, but personally I am not comfortable with forcing people to fight and give up their lives to defend their country. Surely there will be enough people to do it willingly, without forcefully separating fathers from their children to die in a war that the nation will most likely lose? Equally, are we okay with the treatment of Asian and African students trying to flee the country?

True unity consciousness will be difficult to achieve but it is certainly a worthy goal. The hard work though has to be done outside the time of conflict. Improving economic conditions of people all over the world is part of it - if we start to see the global south as middle class and comfortable we may feel more invested in their conflicts (and those conflicts will likely reduce). There has to be a recognition that the wealth of the global north has a huge element of several hundred years exploitation of the global south, and reparations should be paid. But I am pessimistic about that - the fear of recognising this has been one of the barriers to action on climate change.

Concepts of democracy are even more fraught. To what extent should global institutions impose or encourage democratic systems on individual states? We can probably agree that universal suffrage and free and fair elections are non-negotiable where a purported democracy exists. But there are indigenous thinkers in Australia and globally who ask us to question the automatic assumption that Westphalian democracy is the best model for every state in the world.

I think this last point is important. We need to be willing to question our very basic assumptions about the world and the extent to which they are "natural" or the best models for organising society.

You make excellent points Charlie M., and I'm not going to deny any of them. We live in a highly flawed world, and that absolutely includes the concept of democracy. On a sliding scale though, I'd put it miles ahead of autocracy and tyranny.

When I speak of Ukraine, I am speaking only about its basic right to decide its own place, and its own path. And to be able to decide your own place in the world through a peaceful process is everyone's birthright. In my opinion.

Re the spotlight - surely it's okay to be able to shine it? I mean, you can be on a zoom call with a hundred people, but the person speaking is the one who holds the full screen for the moment. It doesn't mean no one else can speak too. Unless of course they're being perpetually muted by some tyrannical host. Or worse yet, just barred from being invited. We can exist as a collective and have our individual voices and needs honoured at the same time. As long as we operate from a place of equality, it's doable. It's when we get into top down power structures and fear that someone might take "our piece of the pie" that the whole thing falls apart. Which is the world we live in right now, sadly. Operating completely from places of fear and lack.

I also don't mean to come across as having no sympathy for the Russian people. My heart absolutely bleeds for them. I've posted about Navalny on here, but maybe I should give that more attention. This is Putin's war, not Russia's. The people of Russia don't want war with Ukraine. Which is why he has to lie about it and ensure that he controls the narrative. He's using the Russian people as pawns too, in an attempt to fulfill his own manifesto, and he's ultimately going to run out of human resources. He may take Kiev and Chernobyl and Mariupol. But he's going to lose St. Petersburg and Moscow. The Russian people aren't going to stand for his oppression much longer. Things are changing.

Anyways, I don't know where we're headed, but I stand for peace and equality for all. And I get tired of reading and hearing endless contentious diatribes about who did what to who and when. It doesn't solve where we're at right now, it doesn't help us move into a better future, and it keeps us locked in division and stubborn stalemates. We have to move out of that energy. We can and should learn from the past, but we must stop rehashing it over and over again as an excuse to throw blame and aggression at our neighbour. And that includes at fellow posters in this thread. We simply have to move on. It's 2022, and it's time for change. In my opinion, President Zelensky and Ukraine are spearheading a massive part of that change in our world right now. And I think that's worthy of a spotlight at the moment.

 

[big_e]

 

[Heaps of fun]

View attachment 1339612

It's so grotesque how government agencies now use social media to make cutesy jokes, like this one about Germany's involvement in WW2. "Kinda experts", talking like teenage girls about the Holocaust. Oops looks like Germany did a heckin genociderino!

 

[Del191229]

You can protest freely in Australia and there's no such thing as thought crime lol.

 

[Del191229]

This is brilliant on how Putin actually operates.