Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[Roos9699]

So they're Nazi sympathisers. That prick was a Nazi.

Three million jews and up to 250K roma died in Poland, many of them at the hands of the organisation that human sh*tstain led. He's still a hero in Ukraine especially since this war started.

Bit of a stretch there the post starts with this.

30 prominent Ukrainians who changed Ukraine and the world they lived in.

That doesn't mean they weren't going to post controversial figures on the list. And it's fair to call them out on having him on that list but a bit of a stretch to call them Nazi sympathisers.

There were estimates thats at least one and a half million Jews were killed in Ukraine during the holocaust so realisitcaly plenty of Ukrainians won't look favorably on him for his connections.

​

 

[Chadwiko]

Bit of a stretch there the post starts with this.

​

You're not wrong. I went back and actually read that Euromaiden post and I don't actually see anything wrong with it tbh.

The dude was not a good guy, and the post doesn't shy away from that.

But you also can't say he wasn't an influential person in the context of Ukrainian history.

Let's say China did a similar exercise and listed the 30 most influential Chinese figures in history. Would you also be upset if they included Mao?

 

[ferball]

No, not at all. I'm simply pointing out that anyone trying to portray Russia as anyway justified for this invasion based on some sort of 'Ukraine = Nazi' argument is a moron.

No one is doing that. Pogroms happen in both countries, still, they're both ****ed nations.

I find it disgusting that people are prepared to minimise the role the far right has played in Ukraine from Maidan onward tho. Especially given its tied to a Europe wide network of neo-nazi scum. Just turn a blind eye to that cos Putin's a campaigner? Nah, not good enough.

Its not why Russia invaded tho.

For over 20 years Putin has said Ukraine + NATO = War. So pushing that as far as you can before Putin reacts in attempts to stress Russia, which is something Western think tanks have been providing briefings on for years, (some are posted in this thread,) obviously contributed to this situation. Putin didn't do this out of the blue or in a vacuum. I posted a paper in here by one of those western security think tanks that recommended lethal aid to Ukraine (before the invasion) as a way to stress Putin economically, forcing him to spend money on military development, but the same paper mentioned the risk that this could backfire and result in a war. Well no shit...

One of the things that other nazi, Prigozhin, complained about was that Shoigu and Gerasimov both lied when they claimed NATO was working with Ukraine (even tho there is good evidence, US propaganda released by the US, showing Ukrainian forces developing the capacity to worj with and use NATO systems.) Those comments Prigozhin made were reported in this thread, in one of the posts K4E posted iirc. Might have even been something you posted, or SLF.

Maybe Shoigu overplayed the threat NATO posed to Russia bacause he thought a quick successful war would benefit his political career. I guess we'll see what happens after this settles a bit wrt to him.

Either way being disgusted by the far right influence in a country that just got invaded doesn't mean someone supports the far right shithead that led the invasion.

 

[Mav]

No, not at all. I'm simply pointing out that anyone trying to portray Russia as anyway justified for this invasion based on some sort of 'Ukraine = Nazi' argument is a moron.

Who’s done that?

 

[ferball]

Bit of a stretch there the post starts with this.



That doesn't mean they weren't going to post controversial figures on the list. And it's fair to call them out on having him on that list but a bit of a stretch to call them Nazi sympathisers.

There were estimates thats at least one and a half million Jews were killed in Ukraine during the holocaust so realisitcaly plenty of Ukrainians won't look favorably on him for his connections.

​

Bandera led an organisation responsible for genocide against two ethnic groups. There's no stretch there.

One of the few good things the KGB did was kill him.

 

[ferball]

Putin is. And Plenty of people are if you pay attention. The internet is filled with pro-Russian shills still pushing that agenda. On the previous page of this thread SimpinForRussiaByTheBay accused Roos9699 of being a 'nazi sympathiser' for supporting Ukraine.

I assume SDB/SLF was referring to Euromaidan press and their love for Bandera. The role of the far right in Euromaidan shouldn't be controversial. Its on the public record. Along with some cases of antisemitism on the side of protestors durring Maidan. Right Sector and Svoboda were both heavily involved in Maidan and are both associated with that antisemitism.

 

[Roos9699]

No one is doing that. Pogroms happen in both countries, still, they're both ****ed nations.

I find it disgusting that people are prepared to minimise the role the far right has played in Ukraine from Maidan onward tho. Especially given its tied to a Europe wide network of neo-nazi scum. Just turn a blind eye to that cos Putin's a campaigner? Nah, not good enough.

Its not why Russia invaded tho.

For over 20 years Putin has said Ukraine + NATO = War. So pushing that as far as you can before Putin reacts in attempts to stress Russia, which is something Western think tanks have been providing briefings on for years, (some are posted in this thread,) obviously contributed to this situation. Putin didn't do this out of the blue or in a vacuum. I posted a paper in here by one of those western security think tanks that recommended lethal aid to Ukraine (before the invasion) as a way to stress Putin economically, forcing him to spend money on military development, but the same paper mentioned the risk that this could backfire and result in a war. Well no s**t...

One of the things that other nazi, Prigozhin, complained about was that Shoigu and Gerasimov both lied when they claimed NATO was working with Ukraine (even tho there is good evidence, US propaganda released by the US, showing Ukrainian forces developing the capacity to worj with and use NATO systems.) Those comments Prigozhin made were reported in this thread, in one of the posts K4E posted iirc. Might have even been something you posted, or SLF.

Maybe Shoigu overplayed the threat NATO posed to Russia bacause he thought a quick successful war would benefit his political career. I guess we'll see what happens after this settles a bit wrt to him.

Either way being disgusted by the far right influence in a country that just got invaded doesn't mean someone supports the far right shithead that led the invasion.

See I don't disagree with you on that point but the fact is Australia has far right influences as well so do countries like the US they even have military bases named after confederate generals that are only now being changed doesn't mean that represents all of the US.

I've seen plenty of people in mostly pro Russian accounts from different sites use Ukraines far right extremist as justification for Russias war crimes when in fact at the Ukrainan elections only 2 percent voted for far right parties. As for NATO expansion thats just a convinent excuse for Putin he has always considered Ukraine Russian territory and has denied it's right to exist and hated the break up of USSR. NATO has alawys been a defensive alliance and never been a threat to him with with Finland joining NATO all he has done has strengthen it.

You have a problem with comprehension. He was saying the Ukrainians were Nazi sympathisers, not Roos9699.

Simpkinbythedocofthebay is living rent free in your head.

See I read the inital post as him having a pot shot at me it wasn't entirely clear . It wasn't until ferball posted more information that I rethought that.

Bandera led an organisation responsible for genocide against two ethnic groups. There's no stretch there.

One of the few good things the KGB did was kill him.

Not going to disagree with you on this he was a far right extremist who commited horrible acts but again the list was about Ukrainans who changed their country doesn't mean they weren't going to include controversial figures though they should of rethought his inclusion. Doesn't make them supporters of the Nazis.

 

[ferball]

See I don't disagree with you on that point but the fact is Australia has far right influences as well so do countries like the US they even have military bases named after confederate generals that are only now being changed doesn't mean that represents all of the US.

I've seen plenty of people in mostly pro Russian accounts from different sites use Ukraines far right extremist as justification for Russias war crimes when in fact at the Ukrainan elections only 2 percent voted for far right parties. As for NATO expansion thats just a convinent excuse for Putin he has always considered Ukraine Russian territory and has denied it's right to exist and hated the break up of USSR. NATO has alawys been a defensive alliance and never been a threat to him with with Finland joining NATO all he has done has strengthen it.

The USSR wasn't Russia. But Putin has said that about NATO and Ukraine for decades. Putin is a Russian nationalist. He doesn't want to see the glory days of the USSR, he wants to see the glory days of the Tsars. None the less, he's said that for years. When a gangster says wtte of "I'll do this if you lot do that" for decades that's what is gonna happen. So in my opinion the US provoked this war (whether they expected the conflict or not) because they thought it would weaken Putin as he'd committed to defending Russia from the threat he saw if Ukraine and NATO became close.

See I read the inital post as him having a pot shot at me it wasn't entirely clear . It wasn't until ferball posted more information that I rethought that.

I don't think he was having a go at you but that's not my place to say.

Not going to disagree with you on this he was a far right extremist who commited horrible acts but again the list was about Ukrainans who changed their country doesn't mean they weren't going to include controversial figures though they should of rethought his inclusion. Doesn't make them supporters of the Nazis.

If we put Barry Cable in a list of great North footballers there would be outrage given the revelations about what else he did. Even if we waited 20 years from now to do it.

Bandera is in the same category as Cable on that front.

 

[Mav]

The USSR wasn't Russia. But Putin has said that about NATO and Ukraine for decades. Putin is a Russian nationalist. He doesn't want to see the glory days of the USSR, he wants to see the glory days of the Tsars. None the less, he's said that for years. When a gangster says wtte of "I'll do this if you lot do that" for decades that's what is gonna happen. So in my opinion the US provoked this war (whether they expected the conflict or not) because they thought it would weaken Putin as he'd committed to defending Russia from the threat he saw if Ukraine and NATO became close.



I don't think he was having a go at you but that's not my place to say.



If we put Barry Cable in a list of great North footballers there would be outrage given the revelations about what else he did. Even if we waited 20 years from now to do it.

Bandera is in the same category as Cable on that front.

we did give Carey the best player award and he's no saint. Not as bad as Cable but he did some horrible shit.

 

[Roos9699]

The USSR wasn't Russia. But Putin has said that about NATO and Ukraine for decades. Putin is a Russian nationalist. He doesn't want to see the glory days of the USSR, he wants to see the glory days of the Tsars. None the less, he's said that for years. When a gangster says wtte of "I'll do this if you lot do that" for decades that's what is gonna happen. So in my opinion the US provoked this war (whether they expected the conflict or not) because they thought it would weaken Putin as he'd committed to defending Russia from the threat he saw if Ukraine and NATO became close.



I don't think he was having a go at you but that's not my place to say.



If we put Barry Cable in a list of great North footballers there would be outrage given the revelations about what else he did. Even if we waited 20 years from now to do it.

Bandera is in the same category as Cable on that front.

See I don't disagree with you about the list Euromaiden put out and that they should of had another think about putting him on that list. What I do disagree with is saying that becasue they put a controversial figure on it makes them supporters of Nazi.

You can't trust a thing that Putin says and my view is that NATO was just a cover for his real intentions and that was to rebuild a Russian empire.


As Mav pointed out we have given Carey an award despite glassing a person and attacking a cop so not necessarily beyond the club.

 

[Chadwiko]

Putin is a Russian nationalist. He doesn't want to see the glory days of the USSR.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[krakouers]

This is moronic.

Every other war this century involving a major power has been won by guerillas fighting asymetrically and the same thing would have happened in Ukraine. Instead drawing out this war has only benefited Russia and western arms manufacturers.

Never forget those brave Icelandic Fishermen (wipes away tear)

How Iceland Beat the British in the Four Cod Wars

For decades, two island nations came to blows over fish.

www.atlasobscura.com

 

[Del191229]

So much for strongman Putin i guess.

Mate, the same people who insist there's a line of enforcer troops behind each wave of Russian infantry to make sure nobody retreats also wants us to believe that a battlefield insurrection is going to unpunished.

 

[Del191229]

Its our fault the Nazis are losing to the Russians again in UKraine lol.

Ukraine says counteroffensive hindered by slow supply of weapons

Remarks come day after Russian defense minister said Kyiv's troops were regrouping after suffering 'heavy losses'

www.yenisafak.com

 

[Del191229]

At least he's no longer pretending to not be overtly pro-Russian anymore. I guess that's useful.

I hate Putin and hated him when you were still in short pants boyo.

I just don't buy the spin and bullshit and lies that you do, laughably.

You can't even conceive that someone doesn't a single flying fig about who controls a string of Russophone town west of the Dnipr, and that I understand who controls those towns has absolutely no impact whatsoever on my life - apart from the massive inflation surge caused by the decison of the West to get involved in that squalid ethnic conflict for wider geopolitical reasons.

You see the world as goodies and baddies, pro West and pro Russian, a child's understanding of the world.

 

[Val Keating]

Its our fault the Nazis are losing to the Russians again in UKraine lol.

Ukraine says counteroffensive hindered by slow supply of weapons

Remarks come day after Russian defense minister said Kyiv's troops were regrouping after suffering 'heavy losses'

www.yenisafak.com

You know that there are Russian military units that are the same as the Azov battalion yeah? The Wagner group has Nazi roots for example.

Focusing on just the Ukrainian nazis is not really playing fair.

 

[Val Keating]

It’s also worth noting that the USSR were just as bad as the Nazis in terms of their treatment of people. Actually I think Stalin has a bigger body count.

 

[Val Keating]

So any Russian military group with any ties, insignia, medals etc, tied to the USSR needs to be looked at the same as we look at Nazis imo

 

[Chadwiko]

You know that there are Russian military units that are the same as the Azov battalion yeah? The Wagner group has Nazi roots for example.

Focusing on just the Ukrainian nazis is not really playing fair.

You're starting to get it.

 

[Chadwiko]

I support the victims which is the people of Ukraine who are being targeted by a dictator in Moscow.

It's not really complicated, is it?

 

[Val Keating]

You're starting to get it.

I’ve had this conversation with SLF many times before

 

[Roos9699]

It's not really complicated, is it?

Apparently for some people it is lol I don't think I've ever even argued that Ukraine as a nation is perfect I haven't seen anyone else argue that in any of the other topics on Ukraine either.

 

[Val Keating]

I agree with him that people don’t want to acknowledge the Nazis rooted in the Ukrainian military because it’s uncomfortable though

 

[Val Keating]

To understand the Nazism in Ukraine you need to look into the history of why they sided with Germany in the first place.