Autopsy The not even The Bont, Libbas and Jones' heroics can drag us over the line against the cats thread

[MaxiBont]

Forgot Williams - so did Geelong.

So

• JOD for Williams
• VDM to sub
• Macrae starting

Controversial:

- García for Bramble. Need the speed in forward line and in midfield.

I like Bramble but I think with JJ and Bramble it just isn’t working and prefer JJ. I also think Duryea is a better defender and Dale better metres gain offensive set up. Bramble is OK at all these roles.

Duryea Jones JJ
Red JOD Khamis

Dale

Bramble had a quiet game yesterday but has been one of our best this season. Would do a lot of changes before thinking about dropping him.

 

[Dogs Rule]

My biggest frustration is the amount of times they have numbers free forward of the footy. When we generate a quick fast turnover we rarely have players alone forward of the footy. When we turn it over the opposition have numbers everywhere.
We bust our asses too score yet opposition score there goals so easy

The eternal problem. You would think we would have figured it out by now.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Even if you have the three best players on the ground, how can you win when your ruckman hates physicality, your second tallest defender cannot defend a man, your number one key forward can’t perform when playing against a good key defender in a good side and the other key forward can’t kick for most of the game, you have no afl level crumbing forwards or wingers, and half your best 22 plays below the afl standard skill level.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I think last night was the perfect example of how the media have missed the boat when it comes to our midfield. For all of The Bont, Libba and to a slightly lesser extent Treloars epically hard work last night the depth just isn't there. With Smiths season long absence from the team we're currently asking a lot of Sanders and Gallagher to fill the gaps and give the starting mids coverage. As promising as they are we just shouldn't be using them in the way that we have to given they have barely played a handful of games between them.

But this is a consequence of filling out the midfield ranks with inconsistent journeymen. Until we either get lucky with some of the guys outside of the team or recruit them then we are going to be stuck in mid table purgatory. The Bont and Libba can only do so much.

Who knows if it would've made a difference last night, but like swinging Weightman into the centre we waited way too long to pull the trigger and bring Macrae into the midfield rotation. It felt clock and not tactical or game driven. Especially when it was pretty clear that Daniel was having a game where he couldn't get near it to use his creativity around the half forward line. Like the issue of playing 3 talls in the forward 50 or our players aimlessly lolling about at half forward late in the game when Geelong went right over the top of them, or the lack of a genuine pressure small forward he was a big part of our problem when it comes to our continued inability to retain the ball i50.

All issues that have been apparent for some time, but one that the club for reasons hasn't been able to address.

 

[_Mike_]

Even if you have the three best players on the ground, how can you win when your ruckman hates physicality, your second tallest defender cannot defend a man, your number one key forward can’t perform when playing against a good key defender in a good side and the other key forward can’t kick for most of the game, you have no afl level crumbing forwards or wingers, and half your best 22 plays below the afl standard skill level.

3 areas that hurt the team last night

• stoppages: English was well down on impact and spent most of the night shanking his kicks when he did have the ball
• Jones was Jones, Khamis really did put in an effort but JOD should have played if he was available
• Bombing i50.. how many friggen times do they need to persist with that? a few players were clear suspects - no need to single them out

 

[CarnTheScray]

3 areas that hurt the team last night

• stoppages: English was well down on impact and spent most of the night shanking his kicks when he did have the ball
• Jones was Jones, Khamis really did put in an effort but JOD should have played if he was available
• Bombing i50.. how many friggen times to we see this.

It’s gotten so predictable and frustrating that I don’t get excited by games anymore lol. Watched all of the game up until 3 quarter time but I couldn’t care less because I knew what the end result would be. Even a win would mean little to me.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Dunno, could one of you knowledgeable football gurus let me know if 1 tackle (attempt) form our starting defenders is a bit of an issue or not?

 

[Next Waiting]

Dunno, could one of you knowledgeable football gurus let me know if 1 tackle (attempt) form our starting defenders is a bit of an issue or not?


View attachment 1952545

1 tackle on its own isn't necessarily, depending on the context of opposition possession.

However, 1 tackle from 9 attempts (an 11% stick rate) almost certainly is.

 

[Claudonious]

That's the issue for me. Why review and why overturn the umpires call?

Exactly - the goal or field umpire did not call for a review.The goal umpire clearly thought it was a point. A blurry single frame with flawed angle perspective was used as a basis to conclude that beyond reasonable doubt that it was a mark.

As Blackadder would say - “utter crap”

It didn’t cost us the game - but it surely did not help.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BrisDog]

Dunno, could one of you knowledgeable football gurus let me know if 1 tackle (attempt) form our starting defenders is a bit of an issue or not?


View attachment 1952545

Khamis’s missed tackles stood out to me. He is great defensively in the air but when it hits the deck he appears to lack the core strength to stick tackles.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

My biggest frustration is the amount of times they have numbers free forward of the footy. When we generate a quick fast turnover we rarely have players alone forward of the footy. When we turn it over the opposition have numbers everywhere.
We bust our asses too score yet opposition score there goals so easy

I think you've answered your own question. We bust our arses in close to get the ball by players being drawn to the ball and not keeping any shape outside for the release. Smart oppositions understand this and allow their players to sag out the back of contests and into the wilds of open space. It's why we see our mids rack up huge stats. They are padded out by 1 metre hot potato handballs.

 

[Next Waiting]

Khamis’s missed tackles stood out to me. He is great defensively in the air but when it hits the deck he appears to lacks core strength to sticks tackles.

Yeah he had one really ugly miss that resulted in a goal. Marred what was otherwise a pretty good game from him.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Khamis’s missed tackles stood out to me. He is great defensively in the air but when it hits the deck he appears to lacks core strength to sticks tackles.

This is the knock on his game that Ive always had with him. He's great as he was last night when the ball is kicked high and in his direction. Once it hits the ground or he has to guard a mobile opponent. Then not so much.

It could be argued that it was tactically sound and somewhat of a success. However, theres a very good reason why he stayed anchored i50 when Cameron roamed up and down the ground.

 

[Golden_6]

Dunno, could one of you knowledgeable football gurus let me know if 1 tackle (attempt) form our starting defenders is a bit of an issue or not?


View attachment 1952545

Defenders always have low tackle counts. It’s certainly not uncommon for this to occur depending on the defensive setup.

You’d like more but it’s to hard to note that a specific issue on a game by game basis. Someone like Jones had zero tackle attempts and had the lowest pressure rating from our players but played a near perfect defensive game on Hawkins individually.

 

[Next Waiting]

I think you've answered your own question. We bust our arses in close to get the ball by players being drawn to teh ball and not keeping any shape outside for the release. Smart oppositions understand this and allow their players to sag out the back of contests and into the wilds of open space. It's why we see our mids rack up huge stats. They are padded out by 1 metre hot potato handballs.

Our midfield reminds me of Sydney's 2005 midfield. Not blessed with pace but blessed with physicality.

Realising their limitations, they played to their strengths which was a game of attrition in midfield and didn't do the hot potato stuff.

It wasn't particularly exciting to watch but they ground the opposition down and won. They played the hand they had very well.

I don't think we are playing the hand we have very well. Treloar is a sow's ear of a burst player and nothing can be done to turn him into a silk purse. He lacks the composure. We don't have a midfield burst player of any renown or potential on our list.

What we do have is big physical mids who, with the right attitude and application, should be able to grind out strings of 10 goals to 9 victories.

 

[Dazb86]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

 

[CarnTheScray]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

Settling for mediocrity.

 

[mattwa]

Macrae was good when he came on too. Surely not the sub next week I think Daniel is in trouble

 

[cherrypie]

Khamis’s missed tackles stood out to me. He is great defensively in the air but when it hits the deck he appears to lack the core strength to stick tackles.

Had a few of them this season that resulted in goals. One obvious one against Melbourne, think it was Ben Brown from memory, needs to be stronger

 

[Golden_6]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

It’s certainly not doom and gloom and we shouldn’t be too reactive to it. They’ll be a top 6 side for sure but it was a crucial game given our return leg will be in Geelong.

I actually thought there was a lot to like last night and we were more than good enough to win. The expected score had us winning so if contest or two had gone our way, then we look at this game in a very different light.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Defenders always have low tackle counts. It’s certainly not uncommon for this to occur depending on the defensive setup.

You’d like more but it’s to hard to note that a specific issue on a game by game basis. Someone like Jones had zero tackle attempts and had the lowest pressure rating from our players but played a near perfect defensive game on Hawkins individually.

I get it with Jones. God knows where we be with out him holding the shaky edifice of our defence together. However the lack of defensive pressure that we get from the likes Johannisen and Dale something that used to be offset by their ability to turn defence into attack in the blink of an eye. Cannot be ignored anymore.

I don't think we are playing the hand we have very well. Treloar is a sow's ear of a burst player and nothing can be done to turn him into a silk purse. He lacks the composure. We don't have a midfield burst player of any renown or potential on our list.

Its bad enough that he's missing this season, but this is where (if reports are true) Smiths impending departure is going to cruel us for years.

What we do have is big physical mids who, with the right attitude and application, should be able to grind out strings of 10 goals to 9 victories.

The problem is that no amount of attitude or application is going to counter the flip side of this argument. The one where they come up against equally physical teams that have a burst of speed inside and outside of the contest like Geelong and Melbourne. Let alone sides like GWS who are all silk and speed. It's no coincidence that those two sides in particular have been our nemesis for years now. I think this would be alleviated somewhat if English was a more physical ruck, or if our midfield batted deeper, but the reviews on English are in and he just isn't and as it stands we just dont.

And here we are stuck in the middle.

 

[_Mike_]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

It was a winnable game IMO and one they needed to bank

 

[ABitWoofy]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

Reckon 4 points flattered us a little. Cats clearly struggled to run out the match off a 5 day break from a wet game

 

[Doggy]

It was a winnable game IMO and one they needed to bank

Yet you were on the main board and other boards saying the opposite.

Like most weeks

 

[hutchy31]

It’s certainly not doom and gloom and we shouldn’t be too reactive to it. They’ll be a top 6 side for sure but it was a crucial game given our return leg will be in Geelong.

I actually thought there was a lot to like last night and we were more than good enough to win. The expected score had us winning so if contest or two had gone our way, then we look at this game in a very different light.

I'm not sure about the cats. A lot of people putting them in the top four, but there's a possibility they haven't played a finals team yet. While they are missing Dangerfield and Guthrie and their midfield is doing well to produce, they've got a fit forward line and defensive line and that's unlikely to last all year.

Their coaching, senior players, system and home ground advantage likely get them into finals from a 4-0 start, but I wouldn't be putting any money on them for top four until we see them play a decent team.