The Perth Thread - Part 4

[Off The Couch]

The stigma attached to public housing is appalling - they aren’t all unemployed drug addicts.

Plenty of low income families, pensioners and single parents looking for accomodation. The Fraser Units would be ideal for pensioners and single parents given the proximity to hospitals and the new school being built

 

[Kram]

Where I live I would say that the 10% of housing commission residents would be responsible for 90% of the crime.

Sure you might be perfectly fine with decent people or just some old pensioner. But you also are quite likely to get a heap of antisocial behaviour, theft and vandalism with the police daily visitors in your street.

And multiple official complaints do pretty much nothing, it's near impossible to get them kicked out even if they have smashed massive holes in every wall in the house. They know this as well that there is zero consequences for their actions so it just goes on and on for years ruining the neighbourhood.

It's still a necessity to have it but it just has to be spread out. Lumping it all together has historically ended up fantastically bad. Just look at what happened a few months ago with only 26 together in Inglewood.

 

[Scotland]

Would they spend it on social housing? Probably not. Could they spend it on social housing (and health and education and so on). Absolutely, but having the money in a sovereign fund like Norway is the first step. It is depressing watching countries like Norway and the UAE have cash to splash because they don't let resources money waltz out the door.

The bigger problem is that the government has facilitated a bubble where it can no longer afford to bring down house prices because it will leave a significant number of people who over-extended at risk of losing everything. So instead, they let the bubble get bigger and screw over the next generation.

They could do a lot of things. Everyone always comes back to Norway but never looks in detail at what the Norwegian government actually did. Most people don't want the federal government borrowing huge amounts of money to fund industry, they want private capital to do it then the profits to be for everyone when it is successful. It wasn't that long ago FMG made nothing and was nothing. The govt wanted to no part of their rail line so they did it themselves. If that was a govt asset the govt would make money every time a train went to port. It isn't, they don't. Our tax system sucks but it doesn't suck for mining, it sucks across the board.

Another thing that shits me is people whinging about "fossil fuel subsidies". There are no subsidies. Fuel excise is paid for by road users. Famers, miners etc. don't use their machinery on the road network so don't pay it. If we as a society want to change the intent of the system have at it. Fossil fuel consumption being taxed on the basis of environmental impact is sensible, but that's not how it was set up. A bottle of wine that is $20 here is $10 overseas where the price doesn't include excise and GST. That's just how it works, people buying Aussie wine overseas aren't tax dodging.

The govt benefit from the bubble because it creates wealth that the banks and by extension shareholders, super funds etc. make money from. Other than selling primary products our economy doesn't have that much going for it. We're lucky like Norway, gulf states etc. we have things we can export.

 

[Kram]

Look it's obviously way more time consuming and expensive but they just need to buy the odd unit here and there for social housing in apartment complexes spread out broadly right across the city.

Taking lazy and stupid short cuts isn't the way to do it.

 

[JackOutback]

Look it's obviously way more time consuming and expensive but they just need to buy the odd unit here and there for social housing in apartment complexes spread out broadly right across the city.

Taking lazy and stupid short cuts isn't the way to do it.

It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. Build or buy housing across all suburbs and governments are accused of wasting money by paying for expensive homes in some areas to 'give to bludgers', but save money by building them all together in outer suburban areas where it becomes harder to lift yourself out of poverty (further from work, public transport or car expenses etc) and you create social problems.

For every complex problem, there is a simple, elegant and wrong solution. That's generally the one the public wants.

 

[Scotland]

The stigma attached to public housing is appalling - they aren’t all unemployed drug addicts.

Plenty of low income families, pensioners and single parents looking for accomodation. The Fraser Units would be ideal for pensioners and single parents given the proximity to hospitals and the new school being built

I stayed with a friend in Madrid once who had social/subsidised housing in a new development. As she explained it to me in Spanglish it ran like a ballot and you were considered lucky if you got in as it was a co-contribution type thing.

Very different here. I was a first home buyer around the time they had $7000 and $14000 grants and some stamp duty exceptions. Ignoring the fact that handing out cheques to stimulate demand pushes prices up, they had to put caveats in about needing to live in a place for 12 months to qualify etc. because people immediately saw it as a vehicle to get into investment property ownership. I'd be happy for the govt to offer rentals to low income earners or co-contribute towards home ownership etc. but if you share the cost you share the reward, whether it's a tax free govt loan or a requirement to contribute future capital gains back etc.

I don't know what happens these days but I know a few people that lived in GEHA housing and taught in regional areas to get permanency. That was the deal and similar to getting your trade/degree paid for in return for serving in the ADF I think that's pretty fair.

As someone who already pays taxes towards services I mostly don't use and then pays thousands of dollars a month after tax to put a roof over my head it can get pretty grating to see people destroying homes that they don't even have to pay for.

 

[Scotland]

What's with the shelved plan to spend $1.6b renovating the convention centre anyway?

Sorry $1.6b to renovate something that already exists?

 

[Billy ray]

What's with the shelved plan to spend $1.6b renovating the convention centre anyway?

Sorry $1.6b to renovate something that already exists?

well firstly that $1.6b was never in the budget. only $35m of planning costs were in budget. and thats been spent, and plans and findings will be put on shelf for a future govt (lol! will never happen)

but basically, was too much money to do it

so instead, create a diversion, announce plans to divert (lol) money to hospitals. there is no diversion.
so announcement for new money for that. and its all borrowed money anyway.

 

[Kram]

It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. Build or buy housing across all suburbs and governments are accused of wasting money by paying for expensive homes in some areas to 'give to bludgers', but save money by building them all together in outer suburban areas where it becomes harder to lift yourself out of poverty (further from work, public transport or car expenses etc) and you create social problems.

For every complex problem, there is a simple, elegant and wrong solution. That's generally the one the public wants.

Yeah no it isn't.

The amount of issues and complaints about doing it the 2nd, sustainable and way would be minuscule compared to first way, which time and time again in history has proven to end very badly for everyone in the area.

Along with the extra expense it just takes more thinking, planning and work. Something the housing minister probably isn't overly familiar with.

 

[Scotland]

What happened in the 1960s that the govt of the day thought that Brownlie Towers, the Goderich St towers (as featured in ABC's The Heights) were a good idea?

 

[RookiePick]

What happened in the 1960s that the govt of the day thought that Brownlie Towers, the Goderich St towers (as featured in ABC's The Heights) were a good idea?

I suspect a great deal of the decision makers of the time would have been through WWII and likely just didn't see any reason why people being put together in close confines, with little to no choice in the matter, would present an issue.

 

[Scotland]

The 60s are a stain on architectural style.

We went from a mix of federation, art deco, California bungalows etc. and obviously your run of the mill fibro and tile combo because not everyone has an unlimited budget to buildings the Soviets would look down on. The 70s had some flair but most of that dated quickly. And now we build houses like we are new settlers who are totally unaware of the climate we live in.

 

[Kram]

And now we build houses like we are new settlers who are totally unaware of the climate we live in.

The majority with average to poor quality materials and workmanship standards.

 

[RookiePick]

The majority with average to poor quality materials and workmanship standards.

You make cashola slapping it up fast, not building it to last.

 

[Kram]

You make cashola slapping it up fast, not building it to last.

I'd say it's all most average people want or can pay for, especially these days.

 

[JackOutback]

We like to think we are more egalitarian than the Poms but there is social housing in Chelsea, we created poorly constructed ghettos in isolated areas and wondered why it didn't work out (yes, London has some ghettos too).

 

[Scotland]

We were more egalitarian, which is why they all flocked here in the second half of the 20th century. I've got family friends that sound like sound like they are one day out of the Valleys that have been here longer than I've been alive. Not a chance in hell they would go back to the UK or they and their kids my age would've had the same quality of life they've enjoyed. I have heard of people in their 20s and 30s now emigrating to Australia then moving back which seems to be more common, but I don't know anyone personally in this boat.

What you got in terms of house and land, weather etc. for a family with one or two average income earners here vs what you got in the UK used to be so far apart it wasn't funny. Do you really want your kids growing up in a council flat in the Jasmine Allen? These days if you don't have asset wealth behind you starting out (whether you are a 20-something or a migrant) you are really behind the 8 ball.

 

[sdfc]

State housing built a load of these beauties in the 60s. Still a few around

 

[Scotland]

You make cashola slapping it up fast, not building it to last.

I'd say it's all most average people want or can pay for, especially these days.

Both. The industry isn't sustainable with fixed price contracts and builds being done on time and to a high standard.

Was talking to someone who built a new home that was at the high end of a normal build, i.e. pretty fancy for a family home but still a house where you count rooms not wings. He was saying that the works excluded from the building contract are more expensive today than they would've been had they been included with margin and contingency. So he's paying 20, 30, 40% more to get jobs done and competing with builders like his to get trades.

 

[sdfc]

Classic

 

[Kram]

Both. The industry isn't sustainable with fixed price contracts and builds being done on time and to a high standard.

Was talking to someone who built a new home that was at the high end of a normal build, i.e. pretty fancy for a family home but still a house where you count rooms not wings. He was saying that the works excluded from the building contract are more expensive today than they would've been had they been included with margin and contingency. So he's paying 20, 30, 40% more to get jobs done and competing with builders like his to get trades.

Was reading about the massive shortage of tradesmen a couple of days ago being a big factor as well.

Do many kids today, especially ones in the city even want to work with their hands in trades today? Even with the carrot of the highest wages ever?

 

[Scotland]

Was reading about the massive shortage of tradesmen a couple of days ago being a big factor as well.

Do many kids today, especially ones in the city even want to work with their hands in trades today? Even with the carrot of the highest wages ever?

Not sure about 17/18 year olds now but my chippy mate went through half a dozen apprentices a few years ago then gave up. Apparently working 7am-3pm 5 days a week and not being on drugs was too much to ask.

There's so much easy work going at the moment that you can make $200 changing a light switch or a tap washer. Every trade qualified person I know turns down work.

 

[quotemokc]

Not sure about 17/18 year olds now but my chippy mate went through half a dozen apprentices a few years ago then gave up. Apparently working 7am-3pm 5 days a week and not being on drugs was too much to ask.

There's so much easy work going at the moment that you can make $200 changing a light switch or a tap washer. Every trade qualified person I know turns down work.

The amount of apprentices that pick and choose when they want to come to work is astounding.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

It's difficult to develop more tradies because the stage of life when people are okay earning $24 an hour doesn't last very long.

Without a whole heap of people being able to come into the sector to provide competition, those who are fully qualified take the piss because they can.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

It's f.shocking

$200/wk for 1 room in Girrawheen (think prison cell size)

Hope you have DEEP pockets if you have 4 or 5 to rehome !

$900/wk for a house in Canning Vale
$750/wk for Tuart Hill

This is what happens when you let in half a million new immigrants a year into a nation of 23 million. Not enough houses so prices and rents soar which is a large component of the CPI which the Reserve Bank uses when setting interest rates. Central Bank responds by jacking up interest rates, which increases the cost of living even more. I'm not against controlled immigration but apart from skilled workers in essential industries new immigrants should only be granted a visa on condition they reside in our dying country towns for 5 years rather than immediately clogging up freeways in our cities and contributing to astronomical house prices and rents.